Wood Stove Project

[vonslatt]

It's been a while since I logged in, here's a project I did last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gBcpi8TwHo

I've yet to install it in the bus, hoping to get to that this winter.

[john61ct]

Have you considered insurance issues?

[vonslatt]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Have you considered insurance issues?

I don't carry anything but liability insurance. I figure I only have about $10-12K into this project (not counting labor!) so I'll assume the risk myself and just make sure I don't burn it down!

[Danjo]

Originally Posted by vonslatt

I don't carry anything but liability insurance. I figure I only have about $10-12K into this project (not counting labor!) so I'll assume the risk myself and just make sure I don't burn it down!

If your insurance finds out that’s installed in your ride they will cancel your policy

[vonslatt]

Originally Posted by Danjo

If your insurance finds out that’s installed in your ride they will cancel your policy

Again, I don't have a policy that covers my bus, only what it does if I slam it into something or someone. There is no policy for them to cancel.

[Danjo]

Your liability insurance covers people too.

I only know this restriction from talking with NG/Good Sam.

From what I’ve heard, once they cancel your policy you aren’t getting it back, so it’s good to know what you can and cannot do.

Just an FYI. Carry on…

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by vonslatt

Again, I don't have a policy that covers my bus, only what it does if I slam it into something or someone. There is no policy for them to cancel.

When you do slam into something or someone, you'll find the results coming out of your pocket and not your policy.

[bus-bro]

That stove is probably small and light enough that you could make a removable installation and that the stove and chimney could be stowed down below while traveling.

With the stove pipe exiting through a blank that fits a window opening, and replacing it with a window when on the move, who's going to know?

Great job, by the way.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by vonslatt

Again, I don't have a policy that covers my bus, only what it does if I slam it into something or someone.

Liability coverage pays for damage caused by your vehicle, including if it catches fire (for whatever reason) and damages or destroys nearby vehicles, buildings or people, even when you're not driving it or even in it. I mention the catching fire thing because that's exactly why insurance companies will not allow wood stoves.

Originally Posted by vonslatt

There is no policy for them to cancel.

If there's no policy then you don't have liability insurance. If you do have liability insurance then there is a policy for them to cancel.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by bus-bro

That stove is probably small and light enough that you could make a removable installation and that the stove and chimney could be stowed down below while traveling.

With the stove pipe exiting through a blank that fits a window opening, and replacing it with a window when on the move, who's going to know?

It's possible that the insurance company claim investigator would not know a stealth wood stove like this was ever present when investigating an accident that was not caused by the stove - unless the owner had publicly posted about it on social media or Youtube, of course. If the accident was actually caused by the stove, it will be obvious to the investigator and the claim will be denied.

If a policy does not contain explicit language disallowing a wood stove, the language stating that "undisclosed risk" is grounds for annulment of the policy will suffice for them.

[TaliaDPerkins]

Originally Posted by o1marc

When you do slam into something or someone, you'll find the results coming out of your pocket and not your policy.

Are you stating a liability only policy is voided because you have an uninvolved wood stove in the bus, and you have a vehicular accident?


Because I think he's counting of losing the value of bus and contents in a fire.

[Rucker]

Originally Posted by bus-bro

That stove is probably small and light enough that you could make a removable installation and that the stove and chimney could be stowed down below while traveling.

With the stove pipe exiting through a blank that fits a window opening, and replacing it with a window when on the move, who's going to know?

Great job, by the way.

I've thought about this. Wondering if anyone's actually done this and has advice.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by TomDPerkins

Are you stating a liability only policy is voided because you have an uninvolved wood stove in the bus, and you have a vehicular accident?

It certainly gives the insurance company a way out to deny any claim.

If the amount is not high they can of course choose to pay.

But if the claim is in the millions, odds are higher they won't.

A customer who committed fraud in applying by not revealing such a high risk detail, may well lose the case

and in the meantime would likely have to pay their lawyers up front rather than finding one willing to work on contingency.

> Because I think he's counting of losing the value of bus and contents in a fire.

I do not understand what your intended meaning is.

[s2mikon]

Take a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjAbDpjRUyw

If I remember right they don't want solid fuel stoves, wood or coal.

[vonslatt]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Liability coverage pays for damage caused by your vehicle, including if it catches fire (for whatever reason) and damages or destroys nearby vehicles, buildings or people, even when you're not driving it or even in it. I mention the catching fire thing because that's exactly why insurance companies will not allow wood stoves.



If there's no policy then you don't have liability insurance. If you do have liability insurance then there is a policy for them to cancel.

When I say there's no policy I mean there is no policy that applies to what's in my bus, just to the outside, the "vehicle" part. If I wanted collision or fire and theft insurance then I'm sure the insurance company would have something to say, they would want an inspection and appraisal. But otherwise they do not care.

I've had my bus for 17 years and I have absolutely no worries about installing and operating this stove in it!

[TaliaDPerkins]

Because I think he's counting of losing the value of bus and contents in a fire.

should read

Because I think he's counting on losing the value of bus and contents in a fire.

I see no excuse for an insurance company to claim fraud if a wood stove was not disclosed, unless a claim was made from an instance of liability arising from a wood stove being present int he bus.


What does the woodstove have to do with a vehicular collision?

[john61ct]

F around and find out.

Not talking about the common-sense "should" ethics etc

nor even about the legal outcome if you had good lawyers to fight the claim denial.

My point is, in the event of human casualties, a claim in the millions

the insurance company might use it as an escape

leaving the ball in your court to fight them.

Each of us weigh up the pro's and cons, I'm just offering a factor to consider.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by TomDPerkins

Because I think he's counting on losing the value of bus and contents in a fire

Yes, but do you mean

you think OP is going to do so intentionally?

Maybe rephrase?

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by TomDPerkins

Are you stating a liability only policy is voided because you have an uninvolved wood stove in the bus, and you have a vehicular accident?

I'm pretty sure there is langauge in most insurance contracts, and most contracts in general that gives them a legitimate/legal out in cases of fraud or explicit misrepresentation.


Now just not disclosing it, or claiming ignorance, may be a grey area. But if the Insurance company outright states wood stoves are not allowed, and especially if they ask you explicitly whether you have a wood stove installed, I think that that would probably be grounds for cancellation at the least and possibly refusal to cover a claim regardless of if the woodstove were involved. At least I could imagine them trying it, and having some amount of legal ground to stand on. But I do think probably there is a distinction between explicit misrepresentation/fraud and just not mentioning anything but not bending the truth. At the very least I would go over your agreement with a fine toothed comb or consult a lawyer.


I have no expertise in this area, beyond enough bad experiences with insurance adjusters to be very very wary and cautious. The average Joe or Jane is at a large power and information disadvantage when it comes to dealing with the backend of insurance companies.

[TaliaDPerkins]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes, but do you mean

you think OP is going to do so intentionally?

Maybe rephrase?

Intentionally? No, internationally not. He says outright

I don't carry anything but liability insurance. I figure I only have about $10-12K into this project (not counting labor!) so I'll assume the risk myself and just make sure I don't burn it down!

He's being very clear he does not have insurance with regard to the woodstove or what may eventuate from it, and will make no claims relating to it.


I do not understand the people who presume you can not insure a vehicle with a woodstove in it purely as a vehicle, or the people apparently not getting insuring his bus as a vehicle is all he is interested in doing.