Looking forward to Starlink

[kazetsukai]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

Starlink latency is amazing even at this early stage. Being my world is VoIP it’s important to me. I can’t yet get it here but I have tested with several people in different areas and we consistently get MOS scores of 4.1 and sometimes even make a 4.4, this is nothing less than amazing for VoIP calls on satellite. This is good even for standard cable / fiber service .. if VoIP is this good that means gaming, video, etc are easily feasible over it.. obviously the big question will be if the low latency can be maintained as the subscriber base grows , there’s essentially no load on the system now

Essentially this is what matters at the end of the day... performance, latency.

The pro/anti Musk arguments are equally nutty and imo irrelevant. Kessler syndrome, while a real possibility, isn't merely FUD- it seems indistinguishable from Luddism to me the way it is applied here.

As for subsidies, I'd support outlawing all subsidies period.... but if we're all going to struggle for a piece of that pie anyway.... space internet seems like one of the least harmful uses.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by TomDPerkins

" so whats the point of all this anyway? "


A lot of people are looking forward to good to excellent internet (latency low enough they can game, bandwidth enough they can VOIP and video call ) anywhere they can see much of the sky, and for far less than they pay HughesNet for example now.


Some people have an abjectly irrational loathing of Musk and his endeavors, they are utterly disconnected from reality with respect to them. They feel compelled to spam forums with FUD and outright lies to disparage them.

agreed!!! im one of those who applauds musk for taking things where they hadnt gone before.. ie Luxury electric cars(when everyone else was building putters that naybe had AC if lucky), private luxury space travel, real working space internet.. im also one looking forward to useable internet virtually everywhere..



governments getting involved with private companies is nothing new in tech.. lest we forget when the internet itself was mainly military and state funded univerisites.. (someone must be as old as me and remember their first endeavor in the 80s to the internet where every domain ended in .edu).. biut wait except for a few large players like IBM which had one of the few .com domains..



as for the financial viability of the dishy.. I suspect that starlink may end up being mainly a service and it gets opened up to 3rd party development at some point for hardware.. right now its not because its in the turn-up phase you need a constant when it comes to testing.. so you dont allow 3rd party hardware.. just like he doesnt allow travel just yet.. its too variable to get good data back.. baby steps..



my VoIP products are in several of the largest Hotels in the USA.. but I didnt start that way.. I started with 90 room hotels till the system became stout and I learned every little thimg about it (and fixed bugs.. lots of them)..


I suspect the seemingly small number of dishys bing shipped per month is more about on-purpose than it is about chip shortages.. its about increasing system loads slowly amnd methodically.. gathering lots of data and building the backend systems to properly crunch the data..



over-subscription is one of the biggest issues with almost every piece of the internet.. whether it be cable nodes, cell towers, VMware hosts, you name it.. people in motion are a HUGE undertaking. ever try to send an instagram from a massive downtown music festival? (prob not since most here are solitary type that dont do crowds).. but essentially cell networks die at big events unless prior planning is done..



would coachella or burning man bring down starlink in their areas? you damn better believe musk's group is studying just that before making starlink mobile...

[cadillackid]

cant we just talk about internet here? like techie stuff? if you dont want starlink dont get it.. if you dont like musk then go hold a sign in front of his building..



ultimately whether starlink succeeds or not is going to depend on the uptake of the services and how well they work..



my main interest right now is in whether on the new square dishy you are stuck being double-Natted or using their router which may not allow the advanced techie things that i do with my Mikrotiks on cellular..



my cellular modems run in MBIM mode which offers me the direct Public IP the my router.. I wonder if dishy 2 has a bridge mode that can do the same (with the $20 dongle)..

[kazetsukai]

Originally Posted by peteg59

My comment that you felt compelled to react to was in response to a couple of PM's rec'd from the member in particular. He personally attacked me away from what is seen on the thread.
I know you had no way of knowing that.

To those engaged in this side discussion: Regardless of your position or how right/wrong you think you are this is not an effective means of discourse, its just toxic. Stop.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

my main interest right now is in whether on the new square dishy you are stuck being double-Natted or using their router which may not allow the advanced techie things that i do with my Mikrotiks on cellular..

I think premium might at some point offer a public IP option. For all other use cases you are likely to be NATted, beyond the router. The router itself will NAT as well.


Sort of a side discussion but I think for a lot of use cases relying on a public IP is a poor approach. For instance all the lights in my bus are computer control via REST which I use internally on WiFi. I do want to enable the ability to control this via the internet- but relying on a public IP to do this is sort of a nightmare- merely to reach even unless using a static IP. But then you have a lot of security concerns, application endpoint to transport layer to deal with.



For my use case I think a better idea is to host a public message queue and have your services/clients subscribe to it, then I don't care if my connection falls back from starlink to t-mobile or I switch to a landline or I leech off someone's WiFi in a campground. My services have to proactively try to reach the public-facing queues so the moment I switch connections everything else just works. Try that with DDNS or VPNs... with DDNS I've had outages up to 5 minutes in many cases waiting for IP changes to propagate.

[cadillackid]

services thast require public IP ie VoIP which is my whole world....VoIP doesnt like NAT let alone Double nat..
I use VPN tunnels and REST as much as I can.. agree with you on remote access depending on public IP is a bad (and insecure) thing.. my bus also uses polling for its control systems.



that said for VoIP through my own VoIP cloud I set up as VPN tunnel but when I need to test others' services or im working on testing as if i am a customer then I need to be able to connect without a Tunnel. thus where Public IP comes into play because I have full control over the firewall. from what I understand the old Dishy allows that but I cant get any answers about the new one whether it allows such or not..



also if I were to move to a remote location then this would be for my Home base which has much more requirements than my bus does..



-Christopher

[Polarweasel]

Cut out the fighting. Deleting a bunch of posts now. Please let's not have to lock the thread...

[turf]

i finally got my dongle.

for the permanent setup, im probably going to need some vlan setup to get everything where i want it and set up talking correct. not sure yet, im still learning networking 101.

i think i know what double NATing is but how do i know if its happening?

i got the starlink modem with the network dongle. the dongle port goes to the WAN input on my local network router.

everything works great and fast! only speed test slowed way down.

wireless to starlink router - 100mbps, i saw a 125mbps yesterday on a test

wired to the local network - 20mbps.

would my router cause that bottleneck, is that double nat?

any insight appreciated

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by turf

i finally got my dongle.

for the permanent setup, im probably going to need some vlan setup to get everything where i want it and set up talking correct. not sure yet, im still learning networking 101.

i think i know what double NATing is but how do i know if its happening?

i got the starlink modem with the network dongle. the dongle port goes to the WAN input on my local network router.

everything works great and fast! only speed test slowed way down.

wireless to starlink router - 100mbps, i saw a 125mbps yesterday on a test

wired to the local network - 20mbps.

would my router cause that bottleneck, is that double nat?

any insight appreciated

double NATting is if the starlink dishy is handing the WAN port on your regular router an internal-range IP or if its an actual public..



in a regular home network scenerio with say a cable modem.. if I plug the cable modem (in bridge mode) into the WAN (internet) port on my own router.. the IP my router gets on its WAN is ther actual Public Internet IP.. if you were to open up a port on that router's firewall and then go to that IP on the port I opened (from outside the house.. say at a coffee shop) id reach my home router..



this is important for VoIP calls and even some VPN servers at people's offices want symmetry..



NAT is where you'll notice any PC you have connected to your router doesnt have anything close to your public IP.. the IP addresses on your inside computers are going to be something like 192.168.x.x or 10,x,x,x etc.. any of those PC's you open up a web browser and web to www.whatismyip.com they are all going to show the same Public IP (as you see in your router's WAN IP screen).. essentially all those computers sharing one public IP for internet access..



enter Double NAT..


you plug your router into the dishy ethernet dongle.. and look at your router's WAN IP.. if double NAT it will come back something prob 172.20.x.x or maybe 10.x.x.x etc.. if you browse your PC to whatismyip.com and get something totally different than the WAN IP of your router then you are double NAT.. a lot of VPN and such still work double NAT.. (mine do as before I ran my cell modems in MBIM I ran them in ECM which double NAT me).. I still could make VoIP calls thriough my network but only when VPN was active.. with no VPN up I had 1 way audio..

[turf]

cool, that helps.

from either source, my public ip is the same. 143.13x.xx.xxx

still, thru the wired network is about a quarter of the speed as the wireless.

last check, wired was 10mbps, wireless 50mbps

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by turf

cool, that helps.

from either source, my public ip is the same. 143.13x.xx.xxx

still, thru the wired network is about a quarter of the speed as the wireless.

last check, wired was 10mbps, wireless 50mbps

the question (for double NAT) is what WAN IP did your router get from the dongle? im guessing it got an internal range IP..


as for wired.. make sure the link speed is actually coming up higher than 10..

[turf]

my home router (mofi4500) says on the open splash screen, "my priviate ip is:143.13x.xxx.xxx, my assigned address is 192.168.x.x, no external access to this router"

this is a bit over my head, but im trying to keep up

[turf]

for the time being, my issue has resolved.

the starlink router has a bypass mode for when you connect your own router. their FAQs mention to disable their router before hooking the dish up to your wan.

i have now disabled the starlink wifi, and have nothing to compare my speed to.

i don't think it fixed any speed issue, speed test just ran about 17mbps on the wired network. the starlink wifi no longer exists.

[kazetsukai]

Mine just arrived. I gotta say, this is something really impressive. No other internet provider have I had a "plug it in and it just works" experience... and they weren't tracking stuff in space, either.



I have a few problems integrating this into my network. The internet relay at the top of the hill ( https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/k...tml#post457329 ) is what hands out IPs to everything down here where I'm parked. If I colocated the dish + router with the relay I could have my GL iNet router use it as primary with a cellular fallback, but this thing uses more power than two relays combined. Not confident the solar setup up there is up for the task.


Putting it down here, everything down here would need a new IP upon switching to starlink internet, and I'd have to plug/unplug when switching.


I've elected for option #3 while the ethernet dongle hasn't arrived- keep it as a separate wifi network for the time being.


What are you guys doing to keep the dish secure? I feel like I need to mount it up high to achieve a semblance of security, but don't have many places to do that at the moment.

[turf]

Originally Posted by kazetsukai

What are you guys doing to keep the dish secure? I feel like I need to mount it up high to achieve a semblance of security, but don't have many places to do that at the moment.

lolol

same
second day after mine arrived, i had to move the dish out of the driveway for fear the ups guy would run over it. its just out of his path now.

parking within 20' of the dish partially blocks the signal


mine will go up on an existing 12' pipe on an outbuilding. im going to have to put the starlink router and dongle in the outbuilding, and vlan the starlink to the router in the house.
i think - at least it sounds good, if i can figure out how.

im still having speed issues on my wired vs wireless. wireless is insane fast speeds close to and exceding 300mbps. highest i've seen is 320mbps down, 200mbps up. but the wired network is running about 30 mbps.

[turf]

i got my speed issue resolved.

my wired network is running in the 70mbps range now.

it was my user error in disabling the starlink modem, that prevented me from getting up to speed.

i changed the settings in the app to disable the modem - it warned me that the modem would require a reset to return to normal. when i hit save, the app instructs you to reset the modem. that reset kept putting me back where the network didnt work right. once i realized to just hit save and let it be..... i was flying.

[peteg59]

"Free" internet to Tonga, temporarily...:

SYDNEY (Reuters) - Elon Musk's satellite venture has launched a free high-speed internet service to connect remote villages in Tonga that have been cut off since a devastating volcanic eruption and tsunami in January.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/musks-sta...080503907.html

[Dbacks2k4]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the question (for double NAT) is what WAN IP did your router get from the dongle? im guessing it got an internal range IP..
..

My firewall (old round dishy in eastern Iowa... I posted a Pic a couple pages back) pulls down a 100.64.0.0/10 ip (RFC6598 "private" space for cgnat) when direct connected to dishy. I don't recall the exact subnet size they were using, /22 if memory serves. The real address and asn I was seeing were actually assigned to Google.

Once behind the default starlink router I get nat'd again to 192.168.0.x/24. Had to go back to being behind their router a couple months ago, starlink would "go down" until I rebooted dishy about once a week while I was bypassing their router

Maybe this weekend I'll go out there and direct connect to dishy again and see if anything has changed. I saw a reddit post that someone who watches bgp advertisements closer than me said starlink had its own asn and assigned blocks now.

[cadillackid]

Great info !! CGnat is definitely known to break VoIP, in fact some carriers purposely Block or put a SIP ALG up that makes it worse..

I’m guessing anything I would do VoIP wise would just have to go through a tunnel.
I’d just set up a tunneling router at my NOC and let it handle routing to my actual on-bus VoIP system ..

[turf]

i got the starlink, kinda permanently mounted.

the pipe adapter came yesterday and i moved the antenna from my driveway to the top of a pipe attached to my greenhouse.

right now, i put the starlink modem, dongle, my modem and switch, out in the greenhouse. not sure if thats a good idea or not, it is heated when i use it, and hot as hell sometimes. it will go from below 0 to over 100 many days. not to mention i'm likely to spray the modem, etc.. down with a hose.

meh, that was the ramble part.

the reason for the post - with my pipe adapter, starlink shipped a bag for the dish. a drawstring dish cover with a carry strap. i think that they intend the dish part to be mobile. idk

anyway - enjoy my antenna

[kazetsukai]

Service has been great so far. I'm ordering a replacement proprietary cable to cut up and try my own PoE injection, will let you guys know how that goes