Back again...now with bus! - Page 2

deftone · 10-22-2016, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyCoyote

Do a double-dose of Diesel Kleen (grey bottle) and an oil change, then run it hard. I had a "sticky" injector on mine, and after a few hundred miles with good oil and injector cleaner, it was a new machine.

Absolutely wont hurt a thing to try it.

I actually picked up a bottle of Diesel Kleen today. I will pick up another one tomorrow and give it the double dose on the first fill up. 1200miles home should hopefully be enough for her to shake off the cobwebs!

cadillackid · 10-22-2016, 06:16 PM

I love diesel Kleen.. I run 1/2 a standard bottle every other tank of fuel... my tank is 26 gallons on both busses..

be sure to to keep clean oil in it and check oil and coolant often as mentioned.. if the oil looks especially dirty, get it changed before your long ride, or at the very least put on a new oil filter.. if it doesnt look bad then just drive it

-Christopher

cadillackid · 10-22-2016, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deftone

I actually picked up a bottle of Diesel Kleen today. I will pick up another one tomorrow and give it the double dose on the first fill up. 1200miles home should hopefully be enough for her to shake off the cobwebs!

im totally about the 1000+ mile maiden voyages... if your bus makes it no issues then you know you have a great bus to convert and will likely give you good service as an RV... if you have a catastrophic fasilure at least it happened before you put time effort and money into a conversion..

also if you have the ability, get some basic tools... my first bus i broke down and was at the mercy of a truck-down service which seemed to be a tad less than fully competent.. I learned a half a day into my breakdown I couldve fixed it to limp along if I had simply had a socket set, a few screwdrivers and some wrenches... I had nothing and was in desolate empty georgia..

Luckily I was off the road and there was a hotel (witha bar and internet)...

so now I make sure I have at least a few basic tools.. theres often times alot you can do to limp somewhere or you can order a part to your hotel room and put it on..

when all else fails theres truckdiown.com

-Christopher

deftone · 10-24-2016, 09:35 AM

That's me getting on the road.... everybody be on standby to rescue me!

deftone · 10-24-2016, 10:17 AM

Weeellll I didn't get far. 10miles in and the smoke was getting terrible and oil pressure was falling to around 25psi. Actually have oil dropping from the exhaust.

First thought was turbo, but it is new. Any other ideas for the T444e?

If I can't figure it out today or tomorrow I will most likely have to put it into the next auction, it's too far to travel 1200 each time till I get it working. Sucks!!!

deftone · 10-24-2016, 10:27 AM

The back of the bus is splattered in oil. That wasn't there when the bus was driven here, nor when I was driving around the yard. Could I have done something when topping off oil etc? Or has has bad luck caused something to fail so quickly?

cadillackid · 10-24-2016, 10:38 AM

if you over-fill a T-444E it will blow oil.. if that T-444E has a RACOR CCV on it then it recirculates blow-by from the cvrankcase into the intake and will make smoke..

oil dripping from the exhaist makes me think its an injector O-ring gone bad and is dumping oil into a cylinder...

does the engine Miss? as in feel like its out of rhythm, running on 6 or 7 cylinders, esp when its idling?

-Christopher

cowlitzcoach · 10-24-2016, 10:42 AM

It is hard to diagnose your problem without actually seeing and hearing the bus run.

If it had been throwing oil on the way to the auction yard, even if it had been steam cleaned you should still have been able to see evidence of oil on the back of the bus.

It is possible that the turbo oil seal has failed and you are pumping oil straight into the exhaust. With so much stuff coming out of China these days the quality of replacement parts can be sort of iffy.

One has to wonder why the turbo was changed in the first place.

It could be possible that you overfilled the sump. On a used vehicle there is no telling for sure if something like the dipstick is the correct one for that engine.

I have not other guesses at this point.

cadillackid · 10-24-2016, 10:52 AM

is your WARN engine light coming on? a blown turbo very well may not turn on the light,

but why i ask about an engine miss is if its running perfectly smooth but still blowing unburnt oil all over the back of the bus I would more suspect a turbo like you and cowlitz suggest.. if it has a miss in it and is only hitting on 6 or 7 cylinders I would suspect an injector O-ring or possibly over-filled engine with oil getting by a valve guide seal, or possibly the intake side of the turbo blowing oil into the air intake which would make incredible amounts of smoke..

however i wouldnt expect to see unburnt oil if it is going into the intake unless its so much that cylinder is not firing....

the low oil pressure is likely caused by one of a couple things.

1. a blown turbo will opbviously be leaking oil out to the point the pump cannot keep up
2. the oil level has dropped very quickly due to oil being burned and blown all over.
3. a bad injector oil seal will cause the computer to ramp up the HPOP to try and recover from the leak and will make your lube oil pressure (dash gauge pressure) go lower due to an increased volume required.

4. oil pressure drops as engines warm up.. esp if they are worn.. if the bearings are bad the oil P will drop.. however at thios point id suspect injector seal or turbo as the reason for oil pressure loss..

-Christopher

deftone · 10-24-2016, 10:53 AM

It may be a little lumpy at idle I guess, although it doesn't feel like it is missing. I don't think it seems any different from any other large diesel, although I am no expert. I didn't feel down on power although I was on narrow country roads and didn't get above 35mph anyway.

The dipstick shows at the lower end of the "good" area. I topped it off this morning as it was 2qts low.

I wonder if the turbo was changed in an attempt to diagnose the smoke and they just decided to sell when it didn't cure the problem?

There was definitely no oil on the back of the bus when I got here, and it was pretty filthy so definelty hadn't had oil cleaned off etc, although it was a little smokey when it made the 100+mile drive here.

deftone · 10-24-2016, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

is your WARN engine light coming on? a blown turbo very well may not turn on the light,

but why i ask about an engine miss is if its running perfectly smooth but still blowing unburnt oil all over the back of the bus I would more suspect a turbo like you and cowlitz suggest.. if it has a miss in it and is only hitting on 6 or 7 cylinders I would suspect an injector O-ring or possibly over-filled engine with oil getting by a valve guide seal, or possibly the intake side of the turbo blowing oil into the air intake which would make incredible amounts of smoke..

however i wouldnt expect to see unburnt oil if it is going into the intake unless its so much that cylinder is not firing....

the low oil pressure is likely caused by one of a couple things.

1. a blown turbo will opbviously be leaking oil out to the point the pump cannot keep up
2. the oil level has dropped very quickly due to oil being burned and blown all over.
3. a bad injector oil seal will cause the computer to ramp up the HPOP to try and recover from the leak and will make your lube oil pressure (dash gauge pressure) go lower due to an increased volume required.

4. oil pressure drops as engines warm up.. esp if they are worn.. if the bearings are bad the oil P will drop.. however at thios point id suspect injector seal or turbo as the reason for oil pressure loss..

-Christopher

The warn light didn't come on, although the oil pressure light did flash on for a second, and hasn't returned. At 2000rpm I have about 30-35psi

On load it really did produce an incredible amount of smoke, enough that drivers in the opposite direction stopped on the road because they couldn't see.

cadillackid · 10-24-2016, 11:07 AM

the T-444E typically doesnt sound real lumpy at idle... a normal running one will feel smooth when you idle and put your hands on the steering wheel it wont feel like dumdumdumdum it is more a smooth sound and feel...

a low speed 'knock' or 'tap' was normal in the pre-2000 units..

I sent my bus to the painter yesterday so I cant take a video of what my 444 sounds like but its definitely not the lumpy sound like my DT-360 or a DY-466 sounds like..

if you can think of how a Ford power-stroke super duty sounds like thats how a T-444E sounds..

at this point it masy be time to start taking things apart..

the easiest place to start is taking the intake pipe apart across the top of the engine.. past the turbo before the engine intake.. and see if its oily... if it is, does it look fresh or like old oil (from a past turbo failure).. if not.. then next

would be to take take the turbo off and see if you have oil on the exhaust manifold going INTO the turbo..

if you have oil BEFORE the turbo in the exhaust manifold then it points to something in the engine itself... the MOST likely culprit are the injector O-rings.. these are a known failure point on these engines...

I also want to verify with you that its actually Engine OIL in the exhaust and not diesel fuel thats been blackened as it goes through the tail-pipe?

a failed injector can send raw fuel out the exhaust and with it smoke.. it will smell like raw diesel similar to the tank as opposed to engine oil like you are accustomed to..

-Christopher

deftone · 10-24-2016, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the T-444E typically doesnt sound real lumpy at idle... a normal running one will feel smooth when you idle and put your hands on the steering wheel it wont feel like dumdumdumdum it is more a smooth sound and feel...

a low speed 'knock' or 'tap' was normal in the pre-2000 units..

I sent my bus to the painter yesterday so I cant take a video of what my 444 sounds like but its definitely not the lumpy sound like my DT-360 or a DY-466 sounds like..

if you can think of how a Ford power-stroke super duty sounds like thats how a T-444E sounds..

at this point it masy be time to start taking things apart..

the easiest place to start is taking the intake pipe apart across the top of the engine.. past the turbo before the engine intake.. and see if its oily... if it is, does it look fresh or like old oil (from a past turbo failure).. if not.. then next

would be to take take the turbo off and see if you have oil on the exhaust manifold going INTO the turbo..

if you have oil BEFORE the turbo in the exhaust manifold then it points to something in the engine itself... the MOST likely culprit are the injector O-rings.. these are a known failure point on these engines...

I also want to verify with you that its actually Engine OIL in the exhaust and not diesel fuel thats been blackened as it goes through the tail-pipe?

a failed injector can send raw fuel out the exhaust and with it smoke.. it will smell like raw diesel similar to the tank as opposed to engine oil like you are accustomed to..

-Christopher

Im working on uploading a short video clip, hopefully that will help determine if it is in fact lumpy or not. I certainly cant feel it in the steering wheel etc.

I think it is oil. It doesnt smell like diesel, but to be honest it is not a real strong smell from the liquid. The smoke smells like burnt oil.

I will get the video up then start taking it apart...

I did notice that the dampner or my serpentine is bouncing like crazy, could this be causing an issue related to this?

cadillackid · 10-24-2016, 11:39 AM

the dampner pulley?? or are you talking about the little spring loaded Idler that tensions the belt? the belt tensioner often bounces some.. if the spring is bad it would bounce alot.. the damper pulley is the main engine pulley at the bottom center of the engine a foot or so below the fan pulley... that one shouldnt bounce as thats the crank itself..

the most likely effect from a loose belt tensioner would be over-heating or squealing serpentine belt..

a nice smooth running engine but lots of oil in the exhaust lends itself to more likely a turbo...

does the turbo "look " brand new or does it look like a wipe-up job by someone who wants one to think its new?

-Christopher

deftone · 10-24-2016, 11:40 AM

Ok here are the links to youtube.....

Idle -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7nxrmsE8ss

1500rpm -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnsfRICnXz0

Bouncing dampner? -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-oBsOxrOyw

deftone · 10-24-2016, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the dampner pulley?? or are you talking about the little spring loaded Idler that tensions the belt? the belt tensioner often bounces some.. if the spring is bad it would bounce alot.. the damper pulley is the main engine pulley at the bottom center of the engine a foot or so below the fan pulley... that one shouldnt bounce as thats the crank itself..

the most likely effect from a loose belt tensioner would be over-heating or squealing serpentine belt..

a nice smooth running engine but lots of oil in the exhaust lends itself to more likely a turbo...

does the turbo "look " brand new or does it look like a wipe-up job by someone who wants one to think its new?

-Christopher

thats the word I was looking for! The tensioner! I had a brain fart there!

The turbo looks brand new, I will get a closer look and see if there are dates on the dataplate

cadillackid · 10-24-2016, 11:44 AM

the engine surely sounds pretty normal and smooth... to me it lends itself to being a turbo issue.. is there a chance that the old turbo blew so much oil out that the exhaust system is still full of it? or are you seeing your engine oil levels drop?

does the smoke start right away if its cooled some and you start it to a slow idle? or does the exhaust system have to heat up before the smoke starts?

what im trying to establish is if you are burning oil in the cylinders or in the pipes past the cylinders...

-Christopher

deftone · 10-24-2016, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the engine surely sounds pretty normal and smooth... to me it lends itself to being a turbo issue.. is there a chance that the old turbo blew so much oil out that the exhaust system is still full of it? or are you seeing your engine oil levels drop?

does the smoke start right away if its cooled some and you start it to a slow idle? or does the exhaust system have to heat up before the smoke starts?

what im trying to establish is if you are burning oil in the cylinders or in the pipes past the cylinders...

-Christopher

I do know that the driver who picked the bus up and brought it here said that it didnt drop the oil level in the 100miles he drove it here. I didnt notice any drop in the 10miles or so that I drove it.

I am going to pull the turbo now to take a look. A closer look at the turbo shows that it looks like the turbine side is old with a new compressor section. Perhaps this is evidence of a repair gone wrong....

Luckily I have my tools with me. Removing turbo now!

WSallai · 10-24-2016, 11:54 AM

I hope that you resolve your problems rather quickly and get on the road toward home. The advice that you have thus far received is very good. I'm looking forward to seeing your conversion results.

I too made a long distance purchase in the Dallas, TX area, a non-skoolie 1996 Newell Coach. I drove it back to the San Francisco Bay Area in mid-July. I had overheating issues as I drove above 63-mph, especially in the deserts.

I have a couple of recommendations for you:

- Ensure that you purchase AAA roadside assistance (your primary assistance, a tow can cost thousands)

- Ensure that you have insurance company coverage for roadside assistance (this is backup coverage)

- Carry a gallon of motor oil

- Carry two gallons of water for coolant

- Carry jumper cables

- Ensure that you keep up air pressures in the tires when cold (3-psi low on long distance can cause tire failure)

- Check oil and transmission fluid levels every two hours

Good luck!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

deftone · 10-24-2016, 01:09 PM

So an update for everyone following along at home...

The compressor side of the turbine is clean, no oil. I have separated the exhaust from the turbo and the oil is dripping out, I also have the manifold clamp off and separated slightly (although not removed) and no oil appears to be dripping out, which I would assume would be the case if that amount of oil was getting through. So I would assume we are looking at a blown turbo.

Is a replacement turbo the likely way forward here?

*EDIT*

I separated the flange from the manifold up pipe to the turbo slightly and there IS oil seeping out. Would this point to the injector o-rings rather than the turbo? Or could it be there is so much oil from the turbo that it is running back down into the manifold?

If it is looking like the o-rings then I will most likely stop the turbo removal and put the pipework back together.

How much work is involved changing the o-rings? Is it possible to identify the leak and just change that one? Or is a whole set required?

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