Back again...now with bus! - Page 4

cadillackid · 10-24-2016, 09:27 PM

where is the bus and where is home?
in many places you can rent storage lots for around $100 a month or less.. since it does at leadt move.. you could rent it a lot space until you could research, get back out and pout it on the road..
-Christopher

deftone · 10-24-2016, 09:31 PM

The bus is in Great Mills, MD and home is Lafayette, LA. Approx 1200 miles apart.

Its sitting in the auction yard again (where I limped back to for troubleshooting) and they have been pretty accommodating so far, although they have another auction coming up, so Im not sure they will want it sitting around too long.

Also, since I actually stopped traffic travelling in the opposite direction, I really wouldnt want to move it unless it was extremely urgent. This site is so remote that Im not sure I would want to take it out on the road without repairs as it would likely be several miles to a suitable storage facility.

deftone · 10-25-2016, 07:22 AM

Ok folks.....thats me heading back out of the next episode of "Bus Rescue" (should make it a TV show).

Thanks to everyone that has helped out with advice so far, as you can tell, Im not a diesel mechanic! (I am actually work on jet engines, not much crossover!)

Im sure I will be posting here throughout the day so get the popcorn ready

cadillackid · 10-25-2016, 07:56 AM

jet engines how cool!! it also explains your willingness to get the tools out!! KUDOS to you for being willing to rip into something you arent versed on..

I do know its not normasl for an injector to make a mark on the inside of a valve cover.. if that injector's O-rings failed id expect to see fuel or oil sprayed at the valve cover.. its conceivable the injector iotself was once replaced and not installed correctly.. or the retainer is busted allowing it to slip out of its spot... that would cause lots of oil to go where it shouldnt...

but really i still wonder who dreamed up using dirtied diesel engine oil as hydraulic fluid??

-Christopher

deftone · 10-25-2016, 09:28 AM

Just out of interest.... in the space in the head where the valve springs and injectors are located. How much oil would you expect to find up there?

jazty · 10-25-2016, 09:30 AM

Everything should be good and oil soaked up there. I don't know about pooling, though. You could always pop the other valve cover off to compare.

deftone · 10-25-2016, 09:47 AM

Well I got the injector out, the o-rings look pretty new, no cuts etc. It was a complete PITA to get out, took a LOT of force to break it free. I was surprised by the amount of oil in there, the injector was completely coated, but Im no expert, perhaps thats normal?

cadillackid · 10-25-2016, 10:47 AM

the injector wouldve completely coated itself when you pulled it out as the HPOP rail drained down and went into the cylinder.... the thing iom most interested in is why was there marks on the valve cover above the injector... did you attempt to run it with the cover off before you yanked it out? im told you can run the engine with the valve cover off at low idle and not make a crazy mess.. but I have not done it...

I think id for sure change the O-rings and make sure iot fits down in like it should, that it doesnt have a bad retainer or was not properly installed.. the injector itself could be failed and was injecting oil if an internal part were to break... I dont see reports of that happening.. I dont know if its possible for an injector to fail in such a way that oil is sent into the cylinder.. but it sure seems like you were burning oil in that cylinder..
-Christopher

cadillackid · 10-25-2016, 10:48 AM

P.S. you may not see a cut in the ring... I know the oil pressure in the HPOP gets well over 1000 PSI so it wouldnt take much of a failure in an O-ring to send alot of oil into a cylinder
-Christopher

deftone · 10-25-2016, 12:48 PM

I never ran it with the valve cover off...

So the engine is now back together and is still a smokey S.O.B. I didnt take her on the road but just in the yard I can see it is no improvement. So are we all in agreement that the turbo is the most likely cause?

I will start to remove it and I guess take it home, rebuild it and come and reinstall next time I can get over here.

Brewerbob · 10-25-2016, 01:37 PM

Really hope to see you make good on your purchase. I live in Essex, MD (100 miles away). If I had property I'd let you park the bus there but I've already got 2 cars in the drive and 3 more on the street. The neighbors would **** kittens!!

I just bought a Jetta TDI but aside from changing the oil, oil filter, fuel filter and air filter on it, I have no diesel experience. If you run into the weekend, let me know and I can at least lend a hand.

cadillackid · 10-25-2016, 03:16 PM

im still not convinced that injector isnt an issue... running it with the valve cover off might give you a clue... as does the marks on the inside of the valve cover.. thats not normal.. you can unplug one injector at a time and see how the engine run / smoke changes if at all..

of course its tough being armchair.. you have a much better idea since you are in it first hand, getting an idea how it runs or how the smoke looks.., engine sounds

-Christopher

deftone · 10-25-2016, 03:44 PM

Alright folks, time for an update. I'll keep it short and write a better post later on my computer (on my phone right now)

So following the o-rings change it seemed better when cold, the smell of burning oil was replaced with normal diesel exhaust smell, however when driving under load the usual clouds of smoke appear.

I pulled the turbo and oil poured out of the compressor side, which I assume is going to be the main problem. So I am taking it home to Louisiana to rebuild and will return later. Does anyone have recommendations for where to buy the rebuild kit?

Also, the flapper in the exhaust outlet of the turbo going into the exhaust...is this the exhaust back pressure device I have read about? It was a complete PITA to remove the actuator arm!!

cadillackid · 10-25-2016, 03:56 PM

oil in the compressor is a bad thing!! too much and you end up with a runaway engine.. i was thinking that was clean prviously.. but I guess its nearly impossible to tell until you pull the turno off..

oil in the turbine (which you found in the exhaust pipes) would create smoke on its own... usually oil in the turbine leads to the seal also failing on the turbine side too...

so much for a "new turbo" being installed previously..

fortunately garrett parts are widely available... I do think this turbo is different from the fords.. but thats not set in stone from experience.. its simply what ive read about the IHC vs ford.. so it may be the same or have the same shaft and bearings..

-Christopher

deftone · 10-25-2016, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

oil in the compressor is a bad thing!! too much and you end up with a runaway engine.. i was thinking that was clean prviously.. but I guess its nearly impossible to tell until you pull the turno off..

oil in the turbine (which you found in the exhaust pipes) would create smoke on its own... usually oil in the turbine leads to the seal also failing on the turbine side too...

so much for a "new turbo" being installed previously..

fortunately garrett parts are widely available... I do think this turbo is different from the fords.. but thats not set in stone from experience.. its simply what ive read about the IHC vs ford.. so it may be the same or have the same shaft and bearings..

-Christopher

Oops, I meant to say turbine side, not sure why I wrote compressor...i guess it's been a long day! Feels like I've been in a fight, all my muscles hurt trying to wrestle that diesel motor!

The turbo has a "Navistar remanufactured" data plate, so I guess it was a overhauled unit rather than new like I thought. I will try and find quality parts rather than cheap Chinese stuff for my overhaul!

jazty · 10-25-2016, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deftone

Also, the flapper in the exhaust outlet of the turbo going into the exhaust...is this the exhaust back pressure device I have read about? It was a complete PITA to remove the actuator arm!!

Yessir, that butterfly valve and hydraulic actuator together are the Exhaust Back Pressure Valve (EBPV) assembly. While it's a neat trick to help warm the engine while idling, or with lots of stop-and-go traffic, it's also a common location for oil leaks.

The linear actuator pushes the butterfly valve to the closed position when a solenoid valve opens and lets engine oil enter the actuator cylinder. The oil pressure pushes the actuator out and the butterfly valve closes. When the solenoid valve closes a spring pushes the actuator back so the butterfly valve is open again. Or at least that's the gist of it. Springs and directions may be reversed..

As I mentioned, it's a common point for oil leaks. The oil will leak down the turbo pedestal, into the engine valley, then down the back of the engine and make you think you have a rear crank seal leak. Mine was leaking and I opted to remove the actuator and butterfly valve entirely (an EBPV delete, they call it). For my uses it really wasn't necessary. When I start the engine I'm soon on the road and the engine warms up sufficiently. I'm never sitting around idling or slugging through traffic.

One neat trick with the EBPV which might make it worth keeping if you are thinking otherwise is that it can be rigged up to be activated by a switch on the dashboard. In this way it can be used as an exhaust brake.

jazty · 10-25-2016, 06:27 PM

Oh, I should also add a link to this disclaimer about exhaust brakes on the 7.3l for completeness: Jacobs Vehicle Systems | FAQs.

Lots of people do the EBPV-to-exhaust-brake mod, but it could foul things up if used poorly.

It's also worth noting that an exhaust brake won't do jack for an automatic transmission that can't lock the torque converter. Manuals and automatics that can be forced to lock are good candidates.

cadillackid · 10-25-2016, 06:51 PM

interesting on the oil leak... I havent looked at that on mine yet.. but the few drops of oil I find on the ground.. "look" like a rear main seal except I do notice some pil in my valley pan.. I do know my Racor CCV thing leaks a little..

is the exhaust backpressure valve on all of the T-444E? I notice mine doesnt sound any different when its cold than when its warm...

is it possible since my T-444E is texas that I had the non EBPV pedestal I see talked about online?

is that RACOR thing on the CCV stock or is it aftermarket? I have no idea how to tell if i need to replace the filter element in the RACOR...
-Christopher

jazty · 10-25-2016, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

is the exhaust backpressure valve on all of the T-444E? I notice mine doesnt sound any different when its cold than when its warm...

I believe they're standard for the T444e. It's possible that it hasn't come on because it hasn't been cold enough yet, or it's already been removed.

If the exhaust side of your turbo looks like that then you have an EBPV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

is that RACOR thing on the CCV stock or is it aftermarket? I have no idea how to tell if i need to replace the filter element in the RACOR...

Mine doesn't have such a device. The CCVs for my '97 are simple metal tubes directed to the ground.

Carytowncat · 10-25-2016, 07:38 PM

Side note here but, Ok a similar exhaust valve was on my 85 GMC truck, and unknown to me trying to figure out why i ran poorly. Finally found the non working valve (used to close exhaust off and heat up the cold motor quickly) and i wired it open, however...

The truck used to backfire randomly as much at two minutes after being shut off. Until one day i was reading on a forum and someone mentioned that some gmcs had this exhaust valve that if it went bad would go off like a "shotgun" i was like Eureka! that must be whats causing mine to go boom.

You may also like: