Finally won a bus auction. More than I bargained for.

[cdc1590]

I've been a member here for 5 yrs but just drooled over everyone else's bus projects until now.
I got really lucky with a local online school bus auction and I think it was because of COVID that there were only a few bidders.
Anyway my extremely low opening bids held on and I ended up with 2 buses. A 2008 International CE200 PB105 and a 2008 Ford e450 cutaway.
Both have turbo diesel V8s, relatively low miles and little rust for Upstate NY because they were garaged when not in use.
I felt a bit overwhelmed and decided to sell the International by way of CraigsList and FaceBook Marketplace but I've been getting non-serious tire kickers so far and when I checked in here and saw all your recent projects, I became re-inspired. I think I just might jump in with both feet.
The shortbus was equipped with a wheelchair lift and Qstraint seat attachments so all the seats came out easily. I plan on keeping it very utilitarian and modular. No frills. If I want a mobile workshop for next week I'll just roll out the bunks and cabinets and roll in the benches and tool boxes.
The big bus will have to serve as a storage shed at least until next Spring.
Anyway, I know I'll have questions along the way and I hope that I might even have some answers for others at some point.

[PNW_Steve]

Nice looking buses.

I suspect that those have the 6.0 diesels? You may want to Google "Bulletproofing your 6.0 diesel". There are a couple of common trouble spots that can be addressed.

Good luck with your project and be sure to post pics.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

More than likely the 6.0, and more than likely the reason for few bids. No one wants a 2007-up diesel, and 2004-up are a bit fickle, especially these things because they are the leper of the skoolie community, sorry to say. VT365, aka PowerStroke 6.0. They've been trouble since they came out in 2003/2004, and they don't call them the PowerJoke for nothing. It really does pay to do your research before you buy. I hate to say it, and I hope in this case, I'm wrong, for your sake, but the title "More Than I Bargained For" may be much more prophetic than you think... Hopefully you'll be one of the lucky ones who isn't on a first-name basis with their local truck shop, before sending it to the junkyard, that is.

However, low miles and rust free, perhaps bulletproofing will prevent any serious issues. Biggest ones are head gaskets, EGR cooler and injectors, from my gathering.

[cadillackid]

2008 V8 IH should be a Maxxforce 7, 6.4.. those first generation are pretty bad.. if it has made it this long on if original motor maybe it one of the few good ones!

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

2008 V8 IH should be a Maxxforce 7, 6.4.. those first generation are pretty bad.. if it has made it this long on if original motor maybe it one of the few good ones!

Weren't you saying the other night that the 6.4 was just as bad as the 6.0, and that the 6.7 was the one to have, CK? Or am I misunderstanding? That made it sound as though the 6.4 wasn't as bad...

[Truthseeker4449]

I would happily take a 6.0 over a Maxxforce 7. Almost every single bus at my last workplace that had a Maxxforce in it has the engine replaced except for the two 7s that have less than 120k on them. Of the 270 vehicles in the fleet, those 30 or so buses were always in the shop.

The 6.0s were still available then, they were in the Econolines until about 2011.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

To each their own. The MaxxForce series of engines has derisively been dubbed the 'MaxiPadd engine' in my time driving OTR, but I honestly wouldn't buy any diesel built after 2007, and I'm not enthusiastic about 04-07s either. If it was built post-07, I'd rather have a propane-powered unit. And I'm not crazy about propane power, either.

[cadillackid]

Pretty much the 6.4 is the worst of the V8 diesels. 2008 was its first year and the worst year. My tongue n cheek comment here was that if one managed to last 12 years maybe it’s defied the odds. But it’s not a bus I’d hang onto unless the motor is rebuilt replaced or such unless the OP is a tinkerer and mechanically inclined. It’s possible to shore up a 6.4 ( bulletproof) it but in 08 both navistar abs Ford experienced piston failures fairly regularly

Now maybe the OP got lucky and the bus is an early 08 with an 07 chassis so he would have the VT365(6.0). The IH version of the 6.0 tended to hold up better than the ford but again replacing parts before they break

[PNW_Steve]

I have zero experience with the 6.4. I have owned, driven and worked on 6.0's.

If you start with one in good shape and do the full bulletproof it can be a good power plant.

However, I REALLY hate working on one in a van!! I had a 2005 E450 Thomas. It ran great and was a great driver. Then I had to work on it....... Then I sold it.

[cadillackid]

The 6.4 aka maxxforce 7 came out in 2008. The first couple years they had real issues with pistons breaking which since these are not wet sleeve engines often destroyed the block.. .. navistar improved on the pistons I think by 2010, ford used the old design pistons for the 3 years it sold the maxxforce 7 as the power stroke 6.4. Ford guys rebuilding or super bulletproofing their 6.4s started using later maxxforce pistons because they were much better..

On the navistar side a 2010+ maxxforce 7 can be made to be pretty hearty by doing a DPF delete , egr cooler and oil cooler upgrades.. and if you are going to fine it you stud it.. pricey items if you are doing it yourself..

Extremely pricey items if you are paying a shop to do it.. to the point that if you could find a pre 08 bus with a worn out engine you would spend less to rebuild or replace with a reman engine in the older bus less money than if you rolled the dice and blew up the new one or super bulletproofed if..

Minor bulletproofing (egr cooler and oil cooler) done yourself aren’t crazy pricey items and with the “right software” you can delete the DPF if you live in a non inspection state or country ..

Nevertheless I wouldn’t mess with an 08-10 maxxforce 7..

Again maybe the engine will last.. ie not every single one does blow up just many of them did.. but not all.. so hope yours is one of the ones that lasts forever or has already been replaced

[Bus'n it]

Crap, I feel bad for the OP! True, for being a 5 year lurker he should have known better on the power train he was getting into. Then again, He may have deep pockets and will be willing to do a repower swap. (Not that it is financially wise) but either way, I look forward to what he decides to do/build.

[cadillackid]

If the OP build is a minimal style then drive it break it get another one.

There’s lots of good parts on those depending on the spec .

The trans and TCM are 6 speed capable, the hydraulic brake controller if it has hydraulic brakes are very pricey and people are almost always looking for them used. If the dashboard cluster works then it’s worth something .

My perspective is different. If I do convert a bus I won’t be roof raising or swapping windows or spray foaming etc .. if I blew one up and it was a very pricey fix is likely scrap it and make a new one.

But obviously some people pour a ton of effort into decidedly much nicer finished products where a defunct engine becomes a bigger issue esp if it’s your full time home

[WIbluebird]

If I found a cheap VT365 shorty (full size IC, NOT an E Series cutaway) in my area I'd consider just ripping the seats out, painting it and using it as a hauler/runabout vehicle.



If the tires and brakes are ok then I wouldn't need to put much money into it at all. If the motor blows then I'd just scrap/part it out, as cadillackid pointed out these buses do have parts that are of value to guys that run International straight trucks.



2-3k for one of these beats paying 8-10k for a rusted out Ford 6.0 powerstroke pickup from the same era with twice the mileage.

[cadillackid]

ill buy a VT365 in a heartbeat.. the VT didnt make enough power to need head studs in the IH chassis, do EGR cooler, Oil cooler and its pretty bulletproof.. in a school bus chassis tearing it down is about as easy as it gets.. pretty close to having the engine on a stand.. esp if you take the front wheels off..



ive had the chance to buy several VT365 shorties I just dont have resources (space / time) for any more bus projects or I would love to make a nice stake-side flatbed out of an IC BE or little short CE200. these are new enough they are easy to find with A/C too..





ive already go 2 active restoration projects and then CoVid pretty much resurrected my DEV bus from being the one I drove now-and-then to being my main mobile office, traveller, dining-room, and the like so it got the work I wanted to do to it done..



and again thye OP may do fine.. I would gowever suggest spending the coin to have the oil Black-stoned and a navistar dealer take a health assesment of the engine.. in doing so you can see if you are starting out with what is deemed to be fully operational without a time-bomb ticking down to the last minute..



I hate when I see what we have seen on thos foirum before and that is people spending much effort making a beautoful conversion only to iuncur a major mechanical failure on the first trip out and having to either give up or put forth a lot of effort and maybe $$ in a repair..

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by WIbluebird

If I found a cheap VT365 shorty (full size IC, NOT an E Series cutaway) in my area I'd consider just ripping the seats out, painting it and using it as a hauler/runabout vehicle.

I've got to say, it is sweet being able to haul around things that are up to 30' long. It's come in handy for a bunch of stuff for me already. And I'll be able to keep doing it after I'm converted because of the much-maligned "bowling alley" layout.

[MoyRah]

I know someone looking in Brunswick if you change your mind and wanna sell the short one

[Bon Voyage]

I had 2 Ford Powerstroke 6.0’s in my much loved Ford Excursions. If that’s what you have I’d suggest getting a coolant filter so the oil cooler doesn’t get clogged - that can lead to big problems. Next I’d get egr delete or make sure your egr cooler is functioning well and keep an eye on it - better to remove it though. And third thing is don’t put any aftermarket tune in it for more torque or horsepower etc... do those 3 things and you’ll more than likely be fine. If head gaskets already blown then I’d get rid of it or bulletproof it with ARP head studs etc... but wouldn’t bother with a half way fix like stock head bolts.

You can test how the oil cooler is doing with a scan tool that shows you temperatures. And compare the difference in coolant and oil temps.
Lots of videos on YouTube about the engine.

If they end up being bad, don’t let it get you down. My first bus came from the rust belt which I had no idea of what it was at the time. Rust was something I didn’t want to deal with so I decided to sell and get something else. No big deal. Lost some money but lesson learned

Edit:
One other thing is don’t let the engine overheat. It won’t tolerate that like other engines. Well no engine can but especially not the 6.0. On my excursions I had a tuner that displayed the engine temps (gauges on dash aren’t as good) always kept peace of mind, especially when towing.

[demoman]

i think we scared the guy off. op has been lurking for five years makes one post, gets 17 replies all negative, and disappears. you all made good valid points in a very polite tone. too bad he didnt get a better first bus buying experience but hopefully he ends up with the some reliable buses.

[cdc1590]

I didn't get scared off. I just don't know how to do much on this website yet and I've been real busy at work. Not to mention that I started pulling the seats out of the International ...angle grinder and a bunch of metal cut-off wheels.
I made a quick video of pulling the seats out ...about 90 sec. Can I upload a video here?

[texastj]

Good luck ! Worst case you can just sell.