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Old 05-06-2021, 12:38 AM   #1
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Greetings from Long Island NY

Hello all, thank you all for posting and educating us through your experiences. I truly appreciate it. As a newbie who has no idea what I'm getting myself into, I'm confident that with a little guidance and a lot of reading, I should be ok. I look forward to networking and learning from you all, as i embark on this journey.

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Old 05-07-2021, 03:05 PM   #2
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Posts: 637
Year: 2009
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Chassis: G27E102
Engine: Cummins ISL 280
Rated Cap: 30,000 lbs
Welcome,

I think all of us noobs share your feeling, me included. I hope you are on the far end of Long Island!

Bert
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:50 PM   #3
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Thank you all

Hey Bert06840. I live in Suffolk County and searching for a place to park/build. Im searching for individuals or a company that could help me with the build. My design is very simple. I would like to build a 4 x5 wet bath and a small kitchen side by side. In the elevated back section of my CNG 2009 Orion VII with a low floor any and all help is greatly appreciated. Thank you
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Old 05-10-2021, 07:16 AM   #4
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Year: 2009
Coachwork: Gillig
Chassis: G27E102
Engine: Cummins ISL 280
Rated Cap: 30,000 lbs
Greetings from Long Island NY

Thatís cool! I considered a CNG bus but decided against. Iím technically very adventurous, but I have my limits. You are a brave person.

You know that the CNG tanks need to be scrapped and replaced before their 15th year, right? Is it an ex-MTA bus?

There are storage places not too far from Suffolk, itís around $200 for a 30 footer. 40í may be a lot harder to find room for! If they donít ask, donít volunteer the CNG bit of info.

Does it come with the ISL-G engine? Which transmission?

With a wet bath, you mean an actual bath tub, filled with water for you to dunk into? Have you considered how you are going to obtain, process, store, and heat such an enormous amount of water? Legally, you need to carry the water with you until you can dump it at a water treatment site. Thatís very expensive, too (weight wise).

ďMan saying it canít be done shouldnít stop person doing it.Ē However, youíre certainly stacking things against you. Do you have all the service manuals and a J1939 code reader?
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Old 05-10-2021, 07:45 AM   #5
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Year: 2009
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Chassis: G27E102
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By the way. For our last van trip last December, we bought a little vinyl ďtubĒ to measure the viability of this endeavor.

So itís a ďdo as I say, not do as I doĒ case. Iím not having a tub in my Gillig.

IMG_8475.jpg


It took 1/3rd of a tank of propane to heat the water by 70 degrees F (35 to 105) at a flow rate that took the better part of an hour to fill up the little tub. The pump was not the limit, the heater could not process more. And I had to insulate the tub during filling so it would not cool down more than 10-15 degrees.

Itís POSSIBLE. Not sensible.
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Old 05-10-2021, 07:49 AM   #6
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If required ...it might not be that hard to convert a cng to propane.

In our SLF 232 we went the opposite route. Use minimum of water as to have no or very small gray water tank( 5 gallon).. recirculating shower and incinerating toilet.

Maybe nice to ask the site manager to start a section for low floor buses since they have there own technical challenges.

Johan
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Old 05-10-2021, 08:39 AM   #7
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Ok should I begin looking in for parking at storage facilities? Right now it's parked in my yard but I already had a neighbor ask me about it and I dint like his tone lol I'm sure he'll the town on me so I have to move it quick.
As for the wet bath no bathtub just a shower toilet sink combo. They did provide some service manuals but no reader yet. The engine is a cummings Westport ISL-G and the Transmission is an Allison B400R.
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Old 05-10-2021, 08:45 AM   #8
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These are the type of wetbaths I would like to install.
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Old 05-10-2021, 08:50 AM   #9
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If required ...it might not be that hard to convert a cng to propane.

In our SLF 232 we went the opposite route. Use minimum of water as to have no or very small gray water tank( 5 gallon).. recirculating shower and incinerating toilet.

Maybe nice to ask the site manager to start a section for low floor buses since they have there own technical challenges.

Johan
Thank you Johan I may have to look into that. Would propane be my only choice? I read a post where someone mentioned possibly converting it to diesel gas. Any and all information is greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-10-2021, 10:02 AM   #10
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Chassis: G27E102
Engine: Cummins ISL 280
Rated Cap: 30,000 lbs
Greetings from Long Island NY

Cool, I had my heart set on an immaculate CNG Gillig but it wasnít worth it.

Can you convert a CNG powered bus to run on something else? Sure. Is it hard? Maybe, maybe not, depending on your skills and mindset.

Itís all a business case, in the end of the day. In my case, the CNG bus would have to be about $10k cheaper (I.e. free) than a diesel powered one, all things being equal. In my case, if I could keep the bus in my driveway and tinker with it over the winter... Iíd have gone for it. But I live in a high rise at the moment, and we want to use the bus THIS year.

Hereís my interpretation:

CNG straight up: I.e. no mods. The 15 year tank limit, certification, lack of fueling stations in places like Maine, problematic interior heating: not practical.

CNG conversion to propane/butane/LPG: doable. Was my plan too. Would require you to hack into the CAN bus for tank pressure and safety telemetry. Would require fiddling with the mixture, assuming you could retain the original ECU - which is a big if. Thereís a definite need to get LPG injection, which are few and far in between for such large engines. But you can leave the block untouched. You would need a LPG control unit, MAF/temp/pressure sensors, a condenser, a huge tank (where? Roof? Smaller parallel CNG tanks donít easily work for LPG), plumbing, controls. How to fill it? You will have to install ECU decoys (so it doesnít throw codes all the time). You will have cold start performance issues, which is inherent to all LPG systems and the reason LPG converted cars start on gasoline. Meeting emissions? Getting it certified for road use? In New York? Not gonna happen. The VT route may have worked.

CNG conversion to gasoline: possible, if youíre crazy enough. Youíd have to get rid of the entire ECU, and build something custom for fuel and spark. Youíd need to map it and program it. You need a fuel injection system, a tank, plumbing, MAF/temp/pressure/O2 sensors, coils etc. You have no idea if the spark plug placement works for LPG. It may. You can probably leave the block untouched. GNG to Gas and vice versa conversions surely have been done. But itís a monumental undertaking. Will cost you a fortune and a year of time. Meeting emissions? Getting it certified for road use? In New York? Not gonna happen.

CNG to diesel: a crazy idea. Yes, ISL-G to ISL is theoretically possible. But not in practice. The compression ratio is double for a diesel to begin with. Replace the engine with a jalopy ISL from eBay for $10k is much cheaper. And then you need a new ECM. And labor. And a fuel tank. And a starter. And so on. Make it $20k. Or $30k.

Long story short. If you like the idea for the heck of it. To learn. To have a few years of quality time with the engine in the shed. Sure. Cummins will hire you when youíre done. Itís cheaper than a 4 year college degree, but not by much. But if you want the bus to go places... run it on CNG now a d weigh your options.
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Old 09-17-2021, 05:10 PM   #11
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Hey Joe hope all is well. How much do you think it would cost to convert to diesel
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:47 PM   #12
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Everyone's situation and skills are different. I probably would look for the same motor tranny in diesel and swap it all and add a diesel tank.. with your own labor..$4000 and up.

Good luck
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Old 09-19-2021, 08:49 AM   #13
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Everyone's situation and skills are different. I probably would look for the same motor tranny in diesel and swap it all and add a diesel tank.. with your own labor..$4000 and up.

Good luck
Thank joe the tanks expire in 2023 so I don't want to convert it if I'm going to have to junk it in 2 years. What would it be without my own labor? Lol I know nothing about mechanics
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