Hello! Clueless, but i have a goal!

[teknomad]

Hello! I've been dreaming about doing this for years, and i might finally be able to pull it off. I'm interested in buying a large bus to be used as a home and small workshop.

I would like to get a double decker, or maybe just a regular bus and ADD a second floor to it. (is that even legal?)

Im also curious what places i should look for the best deals. I want something that will last, and be easy to repair on my own. I've read a little about DT466 engines, which sounds like what i'm looking for.

Also, i am running a very small etsy hobby/business, and would have my "shop" inside of the bus. Would this make it a headache to insure or get the title changed to RV status?

Thanks!

[Native]

Welcome to the site. There has been at least one member that started a double-decker conversion. You may want to search for "Leyland" ... which is the bus type he had.

[EastCoastCB]

So far the double deckers are the stuff of daydreams, but when folks actually have to drive them they lose interest really fast.
You may find you also need a CDL if you're driving your business around.

[cadillackid]

2 floors is tough.. if your bus (including roof vents , A/C, etc) ends up over 13'6" now you are an oversized vehicle and going to need a permit just to go to the grocery store.. not to mention you'll be smacking tree branches and worrying about every low hanging wire or traffic light you encounter ..


dont get me wrong i love double deckers but the height, and if built wrong the center of gravity, can limit you to what you want to do. ive seen some tall roof raises on regular busses but I think the height of the floor on a school bus already is so high that you would be hard pressed to add anything other than a lay-down sleeping loft as a "second floor" and stay under 13'6".



my little red bus is 9'6" tall and its on 19.5" tires and is low headroom. (ceiling is just above 6 feet in the center).. if you roof raised that 4'. (this assumes you have zero rooftop A/C and zero rooftop vents or fans that stick up at all).. you would have a 6 ft ceiling on floor 1 and a 4' ceiling on floor 2..



the double decker busses manufactured are low floor.. their first floor sits very low to the ground..



low floor transit city busses do exist, however most of them the rear 1/3 have a higher floor to accomodate the drivetrain of the bus..



ive seen double deckers where you lose a good bit of your complete first floor because of the rear driveline..



-Christopher

[teknomad]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

so need a CDL if you're driving your business around.

This is something i was worried about. But, a Photographer who uses their regular car for business, and has their laptop and photography equipment in the trunk? Why no CDL licence for that? I guess im 'rules lawyering' here but it seems rather arbitrary.
Same with Uber drivers. They dont require a CDL. But a regular Taxi driver does. So im really not sure how the law will come down on this grey area.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

2 floors is tough..

Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch, but i want to consider at least adding a "crawl space" or something i can sleep in up there. I've seen people weld a Volkswagon hull ontop of their bus lol. I'm not sure thats for me. I will probably try to fabricate something myself up there.


Im in Ontario, so the max weight limit for a basic G licence is 11,000kg or roughly 24,000lbs, which is riiiight at the average School Bus weight. With all my modifications and things, im really worried i might go over this limit. How hard is it to keep a conversion under the 24,000 lbs limit?

and thanks for the replies!

[BeNimble]

Sure you could do it. But a more realistic plan is to tow a trailer with your shop in it.

[teknomad]

Originally Posted by BeNimble

Sure you could do it. But a more realistic plan is to tow a trailer with your shop in it.

I considered that, but looking into the price of both a vehicle and a trailer is over twice as much as a bus. Plus it loses some of the cool factor.

What vehicle would people in here recommend for this? Please dont say "ford f150" because that alone is gonna cost 2x more than my entire completed bus conversion.

[EastCoastCB]

Its the GVWR that you want to note, not the actual weight.

If you're using it for business you'll need DOT #'s.

[tlzimmerman]

Double decker is not a good idea. As someone who hauls a spray rig around from time to time that is 14 feet to the top.....you just don't realize how restricting that is. It would be a nightmare to get anywhere just because of trees let alone power lines....let alone not being able to drive if it's windy.

Bus and a trailer. You are living in this....coolness should be second hand to functional and reliable.

You could always get crazy and set a bus body on a flat bed or something and make a cool enclosed trailer if you wanna get funky.

Also just take whatever budget you think you will need and double it. It's a good habit.

[WIbluebird]

As far as I know the only double deckers around the US are old Leylands imported from Britain and Van Hool built some double decker coaches that were popular in my area for a few years.

[bp1791-unleashed]

Without a doubt, a double decker bus would be super cool! However, this would definitely be a labor of love.

I recall years ago seeing someone doing one (with video if I recall correctly) and they had all manner of issues with it. I think it was a Leyland, and needed a new driveline, but they ran into an issue with incorrect rotation direction. By the time they got it moving it had cost a lot of money. I don't remember if they ever finished it.

Always keep in mind that the maximum legal limit (federally) is 13' 6" height. In the northeast, you'll run into lower clearances than that a lot. In the west, not so much. On back roads and smaller roads, you'll commonly clip tree branches.

Personally, I plan to leave a 6" buffer, and consider my max height to be 13' even.

If you choose to do a roof raise, consider that your bus probably starts at around 9 to 10 feet height (mine is 10' right now). If you raised the roof 36", that would be a really nice loft area, especially for temporary sleeping quarters. Really, there are a lot of things you could do with the extra height.

Your imagination, and your budget (time and money) will be your primary limiting factors.

Do not be afraid to trawl through the various van dwelling groups, marine dwelling groups, and even full time rving groups to find ideas worth stealing. Many ideas can apply universally, or only need some minor tweaking to apply for a bus. Also keep an eye on the overlanding/expedition groups, lots of good ideas from there.

Now, for an utterly whacky zany out there crazy ass idea for a second floor for a bus.... I have toyed with this myself but it's just too ambitious for my needs at this time.

Basically, you rebuild the roof section such that it joins with a new "box" that fits over the exterior of the bus. Done as part of a roof raise, with proper structure side to side and front to back for the upper floor, you can use any mechanical method of moving stuff (screw jacks, linear actuators, hydraulic ram, etc) to lift the upper shell when parked and give you a lot of height inside for the 2nd story. When you go to drive, you lower the roof shell down over the front, sides, and back of the bus, to make sure you are under 13'6" total height. Again, I'd stick with 13'. Think of this as a slide-out or pop-out for your roof. As for furniture on the 2nd floor, it would have to be stuff that fit within the compressed space for traveling, or you'd need to drop it down to the first floor. The walls would need to be designed to not damage any windows when raising and lowering. And you'd be limited because you must not cover any of the windshield when lowered.

I have seen towed campers that use a similar design, typically built as ultralight units with low tow profiles for smaller vehicles to tow, then you expand them to make them comfortable for camping.

Again, it's totally zany, and there are a LOT of factors to consider before attempting it. However, I do think it is technically possible to do it, and it isn't something you see done every day.


re: 13'6" vs 13'0"... The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel has 13'6" clearance. It's a curved road as it goes under the bay. I have seen vehicles scrape the top of the tunnel in the past because they were close, and the curve combined with the length caused the scrape. Personally, I don't want to be *that guy* that got my skoolie stuck in a tunnel.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with and end up doing. Welcome to the zoo

[teknomad]

Originally Posted by bp1791-unleashed

re: 13'6" vs 13'0"... The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel has 13'6" clearance.

yikes. yeah, im more of a 'safer than sorry' type of person. I'd definitely leave more clearance than required. I do like the idea of the actuators to raise the roof though. A set of actuators arent too expensive either, and i do work with similar machinery (though on a smaller scale)

Whats really got me worried currently is:

• In Ontario, the maximum weight allowed for G class licence is 11,000kg (24,000lbs)
• I want a small business/shop in the rear half, which i intend to use to make and sell things as i travel.

And, if im reading the laws correctly, this means i will need a CDL because its a business vehicle at that point, and i might even need a D class licence because, if a standard bus is already 24,000lbs im not sure how i'll make a conversion weigh LESS than it started.

How will these additional licence requirements effect my ability to Title it as an RV?
And would it still be a "private residence" with full legal right to store and consume alcohol in the back at night, when im parked and not moving anywhere for the rest of the day?

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Reminder - the 24000 you are referring to is the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating), not the empty weight of the bus. GVWR is the weight of the empty bus, fuel, passengers, cargo, driver, spare parts, and basically every ounce of weight the vehicle is rated to carry. Most full length buses will weigh in the 17K range empty.

[teknomad]

Yep, but Ontario laws will calculate either the actual weight, or the GVWR, "whichever is higher".

So even if my bus technically only weighs 10,000lbs, the GVWR on this International Genesis bus im looking at is 30,000 which would mean i would require a D licence to drive it.

And since it would be used for business across provinces, and maybe even into the US, it would require a CDL.

Unless im not reading these laws properly, which is entirely possible. I almost wish there was a special "RV licence", because i bet it would allow for some extra weight and probably wouldnt be harder to obtain than a Class D licence

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by teknomad

Yep, but Ontario laws will calculate either the actual weight, or the GVWR, "whichever is higher".

So even if my bus technically only weighs 10,000lbs, the GVWR on this International Genesis bus im looking at is 30,000 which would mean i would require a D licence to drive it.

And since it would be used for business across provinces, and maybe even into the US, it would require a CDL.

Unless im not reading these laws properly, which is entirely possible. I almost wish there was a special "RV licence", because i bet it would allow for some extra weight and probably wouldnt be harder to obtain than a Class D licence

Don't know about Canada, but here in Ga. they consider me the builder when converting it to an RV and I can set the GVWR at the time of registering and titling. Usually 26k is the break point for CDL requirement if my normal DL didn't exempt me in an RV. I plan on dropping my GVWR to 25K when I'm done. My 99 Genesis is 37' long and gutted of all interior sheetmetal, and a bare steel floor weighed in at 17900lbs.

[captnredbeerd]

A full size bus is pretty big for a single person. Our conversion is an 8 window and we fit a family of 8 in there (weekend camping). Just a thought, but convert a full size (14 window) and do shop in the back, living in the front, or vice versa.

[Ronigbzjr]

Hey, just my two cents about that whole legal business and shop thing, I might be completely talking nonsense because I did not dig into the legalize involved, but I can't imagine it's gonna be too much of a trouble, depending on how you intend to run said business.

For example, if you want to come into a place, set up shop, set up a sign, have huge lines of people coming into your shop, advertising your business in the main town square... Well, yes, if that's the case I'd imagine that someone's gonna ask you for a CDL at some point.

But if you just have a little artistic shop at the back of your RV bus? Really who needs to know it even exists, and even if someone did you can just say it's your hobby. If you run your business through Etsy and similar websites, and maybe just want to have a client in your shop occasionally or drop off an item that someone ordered on your way from here to there, who's gonna even bother sticking the rules up to you? You'd have to be one bored like hell vindictive cop to go to all the trouble even bothering to prove that you use your vehicle as a business, and the amount of grayness in this area won't even make it worth anyone's time.

I'm like you, still in the planning phase of my grand skoolie adventure. I'm a musician, so by definition every place I live in is also my place of business - that's where I have my instruments, where I write and compose and record for freelance clients, and all that. But as far as I'm concerned, it's really no one's business that I own many musical instruments and that I like to play music inside my own property. And if every once in a while I want to bring my music outside and busk a bit, as long as it's socially acceptable within that environment, I don't think I'll have a problem with doing that either.

Just my two cents! Like I said I'm far from being an expert on the subject.