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Old 06-19-2019, 06:38 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON View Post
Interesting. My 1989 Blue Bird was entirely riveted, as with many others I've seen. Even the Thomas bodies I rode to school on. Must depend on where they're built, I guess. Maybe some plants uses screws/bolts, some use rivets? *shrugs* Learn something new every day. I've never seen one that didn't use rivets. Rest assured, though, that none should be pushing the threads through the outer roof skin...
My Bluebird used all rivets as well.
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:39 PM   #22
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Wanted to pull the grill and paint it today, just to do something different.
DSCN0004.JPG


Then discovered whoever replaced it didn't care that they were breaking the fiberglass. I have extra large fender washers now so....
DSCN0006.JPGDSCN0007.JPG
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:59 PM   #23
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Ah, I just noticed your bus is a Wayne body... Never saw a Wayne myself before, it's all Blue Bird and Thomas here. Of course, I don't think my county had a school bus with a diesel or air brakes until at least the early 90s. First bus I rode to school was actually a Dodge 600 with the one-piece grille/fascia (69-79?), the rest were 72-81? GM. We had a few Fords of similar vintage as well... Nearly ALL of them Thomas. I'm not sure we even had any Blue Birds, come to think of it, but I got to know Blue Bird construction fairly well with my previous B-700.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:28 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by WARGEAR View Post
Good progress so far! Keep the pictures and updates regular and youíll have hundreds of people watching your build!

What drivetrain (details please!) do you have in your rig? Everyone will be eager to know specifics
DT466- Trans MT643 - Rear Ratio 478
Had to go take better pictures, couldn't read the pictures from my phone.
DSCN0019.JPGDSCN0020.JPG
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:46 PM   #25
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DT466- Trans MT643 - Rear Ratio 478
You Lucky Devil.png
Old Buford said something not quite so flattering... ;)
Flash is washing out your tags though...
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:58 PM   #26
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You should have seen the blurs I had from the phone..
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:18 PM   #27
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If that trans is geared anything like a 3060 that bus will fly on the freeway.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:15 PM   #28
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If that trans is geared anything like a 3060 that bus will fly on the freeway.
Itís got a direct top gear so Iíd say with his rear end combo and guessing 40.5Ē tires heís doing 62ish max. Iíve got the same combo (except AT545) and Iíll do about 55 until the limited kicks in.
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:56 AM   #29
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11 x 22.5 tires and a little over 60 floored.
Unless I re-gear the rear end 55 is the speed I'll drive.
Do think it would pull a house.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:38 AM   #30
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11 x 22.5 tires and a little over 60 floored.
Unless I re-gear the rear end 55 is the speed I'll drive.
Do think it would pull a house.
60 floored?... 55?... Good God...

At the same time, I know, but wonder, why so many drool over the hard-to-find 5+2 setup. Word to the wise, folks, that is much more easily obtained with a modern Eaton-Fuller 10-speed. Same thing, but your high/low is in the trans instead of the rear. Shifting is easy. Put the splitter in Low, start in 1st, shift it like a 5-speed, when you come out of 5th, flip the splitter to high, go back to 1st, which is now 6th. Repeat until 10th, or whichever your rig runs best in. Here is the shift pattern from one such beast to illustrate.

Eaton-Fuller 10-speed.png

Something to keep in mind should you go this route, low range is good for about 2 mph per gear, shifting at 1500 rpm with typical fleet truck gearing. So for shifting low range, think 2-4-6-8-10, split to high, start over. Trucking schools commonly teach shift points for the high side using this method...

1+5 = 6 - 15 mph
2+5 = 7 - 25 mph
3+5 = 8 - 35 mph
4+5 = 9 - 45 mph
5+5 = 10 - 55 mph+

Keep in mind, though, this is all centered around 1500-1600 rpm shift points and 1800-2000 rpm red-lines. Also with different axle gearing than a skoolie would come with. Swap this trans from a Class 8 truck, I think one could expect 8-10 mpg, as the engine wouldn't need to tach out as much.

Swap a differential from a Class 8 truck with gearing 3.23 - 3.42 range could improve fuel economy even more, 12-14 maybe? A Class 8 truck can get 7.5-8.5, 9.5 on a good day, pulling 45,000 lbs. A skoolie weighs a lot less than that, and you've got smaller engines to boot. You CAN skip gears once you understand the RPM split between them. Typical fleet truck is around 300-400 rpm between gears, depending.

Best of all, there are tons of these available from salvage fleet trucks. Mega-carriers tend to rush complete lunkheads that have never driven anything bigger than a Honda Civic into on-the-job training with less than a week's worth of instruction, so you can imagine. Oh, and they have differentials with air-ride and highway gears, too. I've driven a Cascadia with 2.94 differentials, though I've seen 3.23, 3.31, 3.42, and 3.73 variants. Some go as deep as 4.11s and 4.33s if you really want to keep some low-end torque.

Drawback is that the high / low splitter is air-actuated, but for an air-brake bus this should be a fairly easy swap. I wonder how much it would cost to swap a trans and differential with a Class 8 truck? 65-75 mph with 3.23 gears and 6-9 mpg or more. Of course, it'd probably take all day to get there, seeing as most Class 8 trucks are 'tuned' to about 350-450 hp. But then again, they're pulling 80,000 lbs too, so there's that.

But for those who don't move around much, it may not be worth the cost, unless you REALLY want that air-ride. And some Class 8 trucks have air-ride on the front axle, too. Some may find it cheaper and easier to re-gear their original axle, I just thought I'd throw it out there.

The big question is, whether the trans will bolt to older engines, and if not, whether the bellhousing can be swapped.

Yes, I'm crazy. But I ain't stupid. ;)
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:57 AM   #31
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Quote:
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60 floored... 55... Good God...

At the same time, I know, but wonder, why so many drool over the hard-to-find 5+2 setup. Word to the wise, folks, that is much more easily obtained with a modern Eaton-Fuller 10-speed. Same thing, but your high/low is in the trans instead of the rear. Shifting is easy. Put the splitter in Low, start in 1st, shift it like a 5-speed, when you come out of 5th, flip the splitter to high, go back to 1st, which is now 6th. Repeat until 10th, or whichever your rig runs best in. Here is the shift pattern from one such beast to illustrate.


Attachment 34779


Best of all, there are tons of these available from salvage fleet trucks. Mega-carriers tend to rush complete lunkheads that have never driven anything bigger than a Honda Civic into on-the-job training with less than a week's worth of instruction, so you can imagine. Oh, and they have differentials with air-ride and highway gears, too. I've driven a Cascadia with 2.94 differentials, though I've seen 3.23, 3.31, 3.42, and 3.73 variants. Some go as deep as 4.11s and 4.33s if you really want to keep some low-end torque.

Drawback is that the high / low splitter is air-actuated, but for an air-brake bus this should be a fairly easy swap. I wonder how much it would cost to swap a trans and differential with a Class 8 truck? 65-75 mph with 3.23 gears and 6-9 mpg or more. Of course, it'd probably take all day to get there, seeing as most Class 8 trucks are 'tuned' to about 350-450 hp. But then again, they're pulling 80,000 lbs too, so there's that.

The big question is, whether they will bolt to older engines, and if not, whether the bellhousing can be swapped.

Yes, I'm crazy. But I ain't stupid. ;)
I often see older buses with the 366 and other big blocks with a 2 speed rear end - most have been 4 speed transmissions, but I did see one 5 speed with the split rear end - all were gas or propane powered
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:34 AM   #32
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I often see older buses with the 366 and other big blocks with a 2 speed rear end - most have been 4 speed transmissions, but I did see one 5 speed with the split rear end - all were gas or propane powered
Wow, haven't seen a truck equipped that way in years, let alone a bus. Didn't think many truck buyers went for the extra cost, let alone municipal and county bean counters. ;)

Personally, though, I would prefer the scream of a 6-71 with a modern 10 or 13-speed. But that might change after a couple hours of highway driving.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:08 AM   #33
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Wow, haven't seen a truck equipped that way in years, let alone a bus. Didn't think many truck buyers went for the extra cost, let alone municipal and county bean counters. ;)

Personally, though, I would prefer the scream of a 6-71 with a modern 10 or 13-speed. But that might change after a couple hours of highway driving.
l must have seen a half dozen or so buses for sale with the split in the last month +/-
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:40 AM   #34
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l must have seen a half dozen or so buses for sale with the split in the last month +/-
Very cool. Must be a regional thing though. Maybe counties with a lot of hills have to spring for it?
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:59 AM   #35
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Very cool. Must be a regional thing though. Maybe counties with a lot of hills have to spring for it?
saw them mostly in northern BC, Alberta, and Saskatchewan - lots of rural areas, a lot of flat ground or foot hills - possibly farmers taking on the extra job of driving a school bus for the extra $'s recommending a split rear because of their own experience with farm trucks - just a guess on my part
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