I think it’s time

[BlueBoy]

I think it’s time to start my bus project.
Trying to figure out the best course (for me anyway). I was thinking of going with an international. Not fixed on any year specifically, but I want an older one.
The things I know for sure I want are:
1 Conventional
2 Diesel
3 Manual transmission
4 Air condition would be nice, but…
I want to start from scratch. I don’t need to buy someone else’s headaches.
And definitely no rust buckets!
I’m sure there are hundreds of opinions on what DIESEL ENGINE is the best so, what do the expert have to say?
Same thing on the transmission. Although I don’t think that’s as big an issue.

I live near Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, and plan on doing some traveling.
My first choice was to convert a school bus and then I switch to converting something like a snap on truck and then thought about converting a semi truck, Peterbilt actually. But now I am back to plan one, school bus. Kinda because I started driving a school bus. I thought it would be kinda cool to drive to work in a school bus lol. Price range I would like to keep it under 5K

Thanks for your advice, it will be greatly appreciated!
Blueboy

[BlueBoy]

oh, and
this would be #4. 40 feet, 70 passengers. (Type C)
#5 would be AC

[Rucker]

Curious why a manual transmission is high on your list...what do you see are the advantages?

[BlueBoy]

It’s what I grew up with, what I’m used to. The fuel mileage is better plus it gives you a better feel of the road. A benefit if you’re driving through snow.
To me shifting gears is a part of driving.
Automatics are nice too, especially when you’re driving with a load of screaming kids and you need to concentrate more on the traffic around you.

[nikitis]

Originally Posted by BlueBoy

It’s what I grew up with, what I’m used to. The fuel mileage is better plus it gives you a better feel of the road. A benefit if you’re driving through snow.
To me shifting gears is a part of driving.
Automatics are nice too, especially when you’re driving with a load of screaming kids and you need to concentrate more on the traffic around you.

I feel this way but for cars only.

[cadillackid]

if you are looking for manual transmissions that arent rust buckets you will be bidding against the exporters (with deep pockets) most likely.. they go for anything all mechanical and esp with stick shift... they dont like electronics so they go for the older stuff as it lasts forever...they bid up the auctions

[BlueBoy]

Thanks cadillackid, I appreciate the information. But it totally sucks! Although I don’t blame them.

Actually, I was planning on doing an engine/tranny swap anyway, so it’s not that big of a deal.

So far I’ve come up with looking for an International S series or the 3800 series pre-E. Some came with a DT466 engine. Which is the engine I would like to get. They are a little pricey on eBay, in the neighborhood of $5000. Still need to hunt down a transmission. I’m going to start calling around and see what I can find nearby.

As far as an entire bus, I’ll see what they have at where I work (STA) they have put some out to pasture. Most likely they’re all newer models, but the all mechanicals stuff don’t care what they sit in.

Tomorrow is election day… God help us!

[nikitis]

I should get a large presidential candidate sign and put it on my bus and drive it to the polling station.

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by BlueBoy

Thanks cadillackid, I appreciate the information. But it totally sucks! Although I don’t blame them.

Actually, I was planning on doing an engine/tranny swap anyway, so it’s not that big of a deal.

So far I’ve come up with looking for an International S series or the 3800 series pre-E. Some came with a DT466 engine. Which is the engine I would like to get. They are a little pricey on eBay, in the neighborhood of $5000. Still need to hunt down a transmission. I’m going to start calling around and see what I can find nearby.

As far as an entire bus, I’ll see what they have at where I work (STA) they have put some out to pasture. Most likely they’re all newer models, but the all mechanicals stuff don’t care what they sit in.

If you are wanting to do a swap, why the need to find a non-electronic drivetrain upfront? Could you not find a good rust free frame/body and work from there? Then engine/trans combo would not have to be in a bus.

[BlueBoy]

Yeah you’re right. First choice would be everything already done. But most likely have to find a newer bus and put the good stuff in it. I’m going to see what they have outback at work and maybe get things rolling.

[BlueBoy]

If I do an engine swap, and say the bus has a compliant EPA engine in it, and I wanted to take it out and put a non-compliant engine in it, would I have any reasons for concern?
Most likely the bus I get will have a DT466E. And at the moment I’m thinking of putting in an inline Detroit 6-71.
I’ve been looking online but so far I haven’t found anything.

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by BlueBoy

If I do an engine swap, and say the bus has a compliant EPA engine in it, and I wanted to take it out and put a non-compliant engine in it, would I have any reasons for concern?
Most likely the bus I get will have a DT466E. And at the moment I’m thinking of putting in an inline Detroit 6-71.
I’ve been looking online but so far I haven’t found anything.

It may depend on your state inspection, if any, for EPA concerns. Also consider year/model for body electrical systems. As I understand it, newer(not necessarily new) have problems with electrical changes. Some else could explain it better or do some searching on the site for re-powering a bus.

[Albatross]

Originally Posted by BlueBoy

If I do an engine swap, and say the bus has a compliant EPA engine in it, and I wanted to take it out and put a non-compliant engine in it, would I have any reasons for concern?
Most likely the bus I get will have a DT466E. And at the moment I’m thinking of putting in an inline Detroit 6-71.
I’ve been looking online but so far I haven’t found anything.

That honestly depends on your state, and where you are in that state.

In Commiefornia, you could do it, but it couldn't leave your driveway. In my state, you'd only have issues in the cities and their surrounding counties. Where I live, you wouldn't have a problem.
But it's something that is generally not advised, as it would drastically make it harder to sell, if that ever came up, and you could still probably get into trouble if you drove through a place like NY/NJ/CA or any other emissions-nazi state or area, because they use the sticker on the body to see if/what emissions controls should be installed.

If you want to throw an old Detroit 2-stroke in it, I would look very hard to find a non-emissions bus, and I would also look at the engines that are in it, as those old detroits are quite heavy.

[UFO pilot]

Originally Posted by BlueBoy

If I do an engine swap, and say the bus has a compliant EPA engine in it, and I wanted to take it out and put a non-compliant engine in it, would I have any reasons for concern?

Short answer, yes, since you are breaking Federal laws (yes plural, the EPA loves their rule books thick), but it really comes down to your state and what they enforce, what they can come after you for if they want to, and how badly you want to be an "outlaw". Everybody alive now is doing something they "shouldn't" be doing since basically, anything you might do is illegal somewhere

Most likely the bus I get will have a DT466E. And at the moment I’m thinking of putting in an inline Detroit 6-71.

If you want a DT466 you would be miles ahead to go for an International and get one with that engine, E or otherwise. There are members here on Skoolie keeping their DT466E engines running and they share their experiences here for other E owners, and keeping an E going will be *much* easier than a repower to a Detroit.

I’ve been looking online but so far I haven’t found anything.

Narrow it down to what you reall want, keep looking, and wait for the "right" bus. I say "right" in quotes because all buses have their issues, and none are perfect.....except Crowns ! The reason being, you will need that love for what you really wanted to carry you thru the challenging times ahead that will come. Be patient, work towards your goals, and it will happen.

[Rock-N-Ruth]

Originally Posted by BlueBoy

Thanks cadillackid, I appreciate the information. But it totally sucks! Although I don’t blame them.

Actually, I was planning on doing an engine/tranny swap anyway, so it’s not that big of a deal.

So far I’ve come up with looking for an International S series or the 3800 series pre-E. Some came with a DT466 engine. Which is the engine I would like to get. They are a little pricey on eBay, in the neighborhood of $5000. Still need to hunt down a transmission. I’m going to start calling around and see what I can find nearby.

As far as an entire bus, I’ll see what they have at where I work (STA) they have put some out to pasture. Most likely they’re all newer models, but the all mechanicals stuff don’t care what they sit in.

Tomorrow is election day… God help us!

Just a thought from a guy born and raised in Butler, Pa. You know where that is. Ruth and I built our first skoolie in 1989. Long before anyone was calling them skoolies. We lived in it for a year. We got it in Suffolk Va.



One thing I never saw in south western Pa. was, an out of service bus without a lot of rust.



Do yourself a favor and plan to do a little traveling to get yourself a rust free bus. There are a lot of challenges that can take the steam out of your dream, even without having to remediate rust as well. You want to look in states that don't salt roads and aren't right on the coast. Salt air can cause corrosion in places you would never expect, coming from Pa.


DT466 is a good choice, as is the Cummins 8.3.



As cadillackid mentioned you will be hard pressed to find one with a standard transmission that won't get snapped up by foreigners with crazy deep pockets. I imagine if you are handy enough you can do a tranny swap.



You are correct. Is is fun to drive your school bus to work, driving school bus. Ruth and I also get a kick out of driving our house to the grocery store. During the scamdemic, we got a real kick out of having curbside delivery right to our front door.


Welcome to the adventure. If you ever make it out to south western New Mexico drop in at Freedom Field.

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by Rock-N-Ruth

Just a thought from a guy born and raised in Butler, Pa. You know where that is. Ruth and I built our first skoolie in 1989. Long before anyone was calling them skoolies(.......).

(1921 skoolie meet-up)


(1915 Roland Conklin's skoolie traveled from NYC to San Francisco)

(Conklin Interior 1915)


(Pre-30s Ford)


(1926 Chevy)

[Omnibot2000]

Originally Posted by DeMac

(1921 skoolie meet-up)


(1915 Roland Conklin's skoolie traveled from NYC to San Francisco)

(Conklin Interior 1915)


(Pre-30s Ford)


(1926 Chevy)

It's ever amazing to see old pictures like that.

That little girl in the last picture probably never thought people would be looking back on her nearly 100 years later.

[BlueBoy]

Originally Posted by Rock-N-Ruth

Do yourself a favor and plan to do a little traveling to get yourself a rust free bus. There are a lot of challenges that can take the steam out of your dream, even without having to remediate rust as well. You want to look in states that don't salt roads and aren't right on the coast. Salt air can cause corrosion in places you would never expect, coming from Pa.

You are correct. Is is fun to drive your school bus to work, driving school bus. Ruth and I also get a kick out of driving our house to the grocery store. During the scamdemic, we got a real kick out of having curbside delivery right to our front door.

I was looking at some in Kentucky but they’re not old enough for what I wanna do.
A friend of mine that now lives in Punxsutawney PA knows a guy up there that has a school bus junkyard a place like that is more fun than Kennywood.

Curbside pick up straight to your front door

[nikitis]

There is a way around the EPA laws. But he would have to go the distance to make it happen.

If he completely disassembled the bus to the point of even the C Channels being empty, and inspected every square inch of that bus and scraped off every serial number he could find and reassembled it would not by definition be a bus made. He’s be building his own bus from scratch with reclaimed steel. Then he could register a new VIN and setup as an experimental vehicle on title.

They won’t be able to find a Vin if inspected. You won’t be able to use any previous emblems or badges but could make his own and use what ever engine he wants.

It may look like a manufactured bus but could challenge them to find a VIN on it anywhere. They won’t because he reused reclaimed metal.

If you are already going the distance to add an engine it isn’t too far off to keep going with disassembly. But it is a lot more work to do and most people would cut there loss and buy a new proper bus. The advantages of making your own bus is you can metal treat the whole thing like new and you’ll know every part of your bus is like new and in miner condition.

[Omnibot2000]

I have (slightly illegally) swapped a VIN from one car to another for my personal use and registered it as such. However I never sold it and when I was done with the car I scrapped it.

I suppose one could purchase a rusted out mechanical bus, swap everything to a good body, part out the rest and what ever is left, scrap it.

Just seems like a lot of work and effort and life is to short.

In my province I could purchase a truck with a rusted out cab but mechanically everything is fine. If I found a rust free cab I can install it onto the frame so long as I report to vehicle standards what I did. The VIN that came off and the VIN that went on. You have all that documented with proof it is fairly straight forward.

Issue is the emission thing again.

I know a few small companies near me have reported there trucks with older pre emission engines and were able to skirt emission law because of the sticker on the engine says that it meets emission requirement for build date of engine. Our laws up to a couple years ago had not caught up yet for emission requirements having to match build date of truck.

For road side inspections on deleted trucks the inspector wants to see the DPF and SCR installed mean while the truck was deleted and the DPF/SCR was hollowed out. They figured out by tapping the DPF with a hammer that when it sounds empty, truck is deleted and pulled off the road. Now they are only drilling out a 5 inch hole through the center so the DPF still sounds intact with a dull thud.

I understand the desire for going all mechanical. Yes things might fail on a DT466E or T444e compared to full mechanical but I think the HP gains and efficiency(in general) outways a full mechanical engine. These electric engines can be turned up and for the most part very reliable.