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Old 12-16-2020, 04:03 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Atlanta
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Year: 2007
Coachwork: International
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 78
Is this a good deal?

2007 IC (International) RE 300
DT466E Diesel
Allison 3000 Automatic
Air Brakes
13 Row - 78 Children - 52 Adults
14 Row Length - Extra Leg Room
Full Seat Belts
Air Conditioning
Tilt Wheel
Power Mirrors
Cruise Control
Air Door
Miles shown 206,562
GVWR 33,000
mph
Inside Height 77 in
Inside Length 30 ft floor
Inside Lenght 35 ft Inside
Outside Length 40 ft
Tires are regrooveable

The asking price was 12k we got him down to 7k now we jus want opinions on weather or not that's a deal or it's jus the average price 4 a bus with these statistics ��

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Old 12-16-2020, 04:37 PM   #2
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higher side of average.
If going for a 2004+ I'd avoid navistar. look for cummins or cat or older than 2004.
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Old 12-16-2020, 07:10 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
higher side of average.
If going for a 2004+ I'd avoid navistar. look for cummins or cat or older than 2004.
Navistar is a type of engine I assume? I've never herd of it I've herd if Cummings Mercedes and cat tho and what would yu pay 4 this bus based on what yy kno so far if I may
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Old 12-16-2020, 07:22 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Yung2syck7 View Post
Navistar is a type of engine I assume? I've never herd of it I've herd if Cummings Mercedes and cat tho and what would yu pay 4 this bus based on what yy kno so far if I may
Others will have their own opinions I can only give mine. I stay away from buses with the problematic emissions stuff.
Navistar is International. Was a really good brand but the emissions stuff killed them. If you buy a new International/Navistar truck/bus with a diesel its actually got a Cummins in it now as Navistar left the medium duty engine market after so many problematic design runs and stuff.
If buying a 2004+ I'd go Cummins, Cat, or Mercedes. In that order.

If I'm putting a price on the bus you're asking about...$4500 or so if its impeccable and all the maintenance and stuff are completely up to date and recent. Would even have to have new or nearly new tires, even.

The maxxforce engines are just junk in my opinion.
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Old 12-16-2020, 08:58 PM   #5
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A couple of nice features but not 7k worth. A couple of features you won't use so no point paying more for stuff you don't need. And I agree with ECCB that people avoid that era of Navistar engine, the emissions setup was *ahem* problematic.
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Old 12-16-2020, 10:59 PM   #6
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Newbie here, but I've heard a lot of people say the DT-466 is one of the best engines. is that only applicable to pre-2004? For a 2007 bus is it still called a DT-466, or is it the MaxxForce that everyone says to avoid?

Also buses with built-in air conditioning- is it adequate for a skoolie, or you still want to get a separate air conditioner for warmer climates? Cruise control also seems like a plus for highway travel.
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Old 12-17-2020, 06:10 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by danamano View Post
Newbie here, but I've heard a lot of people say the DT-466 is one of the best engines. is that only applicable to pre-2004? For a 2007 bus is it still called a DT-466, or is it the MaxxForce that everyone says to avoid?

Also buses with built-in air conditioning- is it adequate for a skoolie, or you still want to get a separate air conditioner for warmer climates? Cruise control also seems like a plus for highway travel.

Only applicable to pre emisions. Navistar did the worst at emissions equipment.
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Old 12-17-2020, 12:57 PM   #8
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I like the AC and cruise too but understand that AC is engine driven so you will still need a climate control situation for when you're parked in order that you don't have to idle for air conditioning.
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Old 12-17-2020, 01:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by danamano View Post
Newbie here, but I've heard a lot of people say the DT-466 is one of the best engines. is that only applicable to pre-2004? For a 2007 bus is it still called a DT-466, or is it the MaxxForce that everyone says to avoid?

Also buses with built-in air conditioning- is it adequate for a skoolie, or you still want to get a separate air conditioner for warmer climates? Cruise control also seems like a plus for highway travel.
Starting in about 2006 IHC/Navistar/IC changed the nomenclature on their engines. The VT-365 became the MaxxForce7 and the DT466E became the MaxxForceDT. The VT-365 is also known as the 6.0L Powerstroke in Ford products. In any form or name the VT-365 is a disaster of an engine. When it became the MaxxForce7 it got even worse.

The DT466 family of engines were some of the best medium duty engines ever made. It started out in life as a combine engine that was built to run at 160* for hours and days on end. Which it did for more than 40-years. When it was put into truck and bus chassis it became a workhorse that was very difficult to kill. However when the DT466 became the MaxxForceDT the DT466 became the engine to avoid. In order to make the EGR system IHC/Navistart/IC used to get their engines to meet smog requirements the engine had to run at 210*. For an engine that was originally designed to run at 160* it really didn't like running at 210*. The rubber O-rings that sealed the wet cylinder liners tend to blow out filling the blown out cylinders with water. It if happens to happen when the engine is running hard at max RPM's it tends to blow out the crank, break connecting rods, or throw a piston through the side of the block. If it happens after the engine is shut off it makes it so the engine won't start again. All in all a sad end to a great engine.
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Old 12-17-2020, 01:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by danamano View Post
Newbie here, but I've heard a lot of people say the DT-466 is one of the best engines. is that only applicable to pre-2004? For a 2007 bus is it still called a DT-466, or is it the MaxxForce that everyone says to avoid?

Also buses with built-in air conditioning- is it adequate for a skoolie, or you still want to get a separate air conditioner for warmer climates? Cruise control also seems like a plus for highway travel.
Coach A/C systems tend to be a problem mostly because buses are notoriously difficult to cool while out on the road. You not only have multiple furnaces cranking out 98.6*, multiple windows for greenhouse effect (tinted windows help but tint doesn't remove all of the greenhouse effect), but you also have many, many places for outside air to enter into the bus. Which means you need to have a huge system to overcome all of the heat that is inside the bus. Most RV rooftop A/C units are 13,500-15,000 BTU units. Most Type D school buses that have A/C systems have 120,000 to 150,000 BTU units so that there is enough cooling ability to overcome all of the heat. Generally speaking it is adequate to keep the interior cool with a full load of passengers on a hot day. Just remember, regardless of the system, most A/C systems are designed to reduce the interior temperature 20* less than the ambient temperature outside. Even you want to get it cooler inside than 20* less than ambient you are going to have to invest in a ThermoKing refrigeration unit that is more like 500,000 BTU's. With that much cooling ability you would be able to hang meat or transport ice cream.

Almost all newer buses with electronically controlled engines and transmissions have the ability to have cruise control as part of the driver controls. If it doesn't have them it is just a matter of putting in the switches because the ability to add it is already in the engine management programming. You might even be able to get OEM factory switches to make it work.
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Old 12-17-2020, 01:29 PM   #11
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winlcok, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yung2syck7 View Post
2007 IC (International) RE 300
DT466E Diesel
Allison 3000 Automatic
Air Brakes
13 Row - 78 Children - 52 Adults
14 Row Length - Extra Leg Room
Full Seat Belts
Air Conditioning
Tilt Wheel
Power Mirrors
Cruise Control
Air Door
Miles shown 206,562
GVWR 33,000
mph
Inside Height 77 in
Inside Length 30 ft floor
Inside Lenght 35 ft Inside
Outside Length 40 ft
Tires are regrooveable

The asking price was 12k we got him down to 7k now we jus want opinions on weather or not that's a deal or it's jus the average price 4 a bus with these statistics ��
For $7,000.00 you can purchase an MCI DL4500 which is a 45' motorcoach with a Series 60 450 HP engine and Allison B500. In today's market, $7,000.00 for a used school bus is way too much $$$$. At most I would be willing to pay only $4,000.00.

Almost all new tires are regroovable. But that doesn't mean much for a bus conversion. The tires are going to die of old age long before they wear out the tread. Look at the date codes on the tires. If the date codes are more than five years old figure on replacing the tires.

ut because it has the MaxxForceDT engine I would say a big pass on this bus.
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Old 12-20-2020, 01:24 PM   #12
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Year: 2007
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Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 78
Thank you so much for such a detailed response my question now is how could you tell it was a maxxforcedt we were under the impression that it was a dt466 not a maxxforce
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Old 12-20-2020, 01:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
For $7,000.00 you can purchase an MCI DL4500 which is a 45' motorcoach with a Series 60 450 HP engine and Allison B500. In today's market, $7,000.00 for a used school bus is way too much $$$$. At most I would be willing to pay only $4,000.00.

Almost all new tires are regroovable. But that doesn't mean much for a bus conversion. The tires are going to die of old age long before they wear out the tread. Look at the date codes on the tires. If the date codes are more than five years old figure on replacing the tires.

ut because it has the MaxxForceDT engine I would say a big pass on this bus.
Thank you so much for such a detailed response my question now is how could you tell it was a maxxforcedt we were under the impression that it was a dt466 not a maxxforce side note this bus is coming from a dealer
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Old 12-20-2020, 01:44 PM   #14
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Don't know for sure if you have a maxxforce, but the year is the best guess. 2006 is around when the stricter emissions standards resulted in Navistar changing their engines.

Either look for an older bus with a DT466, or get a newer bus with a different engine manufacturer.
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Old 12-20-2020, 01:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danamano View Post
Don't know for sure if you have a maxxforce, but the year is the best guess. 2006 is around when the stricter emissions standards resulted in Navistar changing their engines.

Either look for an older bus with a DT466, or get a newer bus with a different engine manufacturer.
Dt466, Cat 3126, Cummins 5.9/8.3 are the three to look for. Pre-04 is best!
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Old 12-20-2020, 02:34 PM   #16
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I thought the main difference between a DT466 and a MaxxForce was the emissions system. This means that around 2004/06 they would have made that transition in nomenclature. Fundamentally I think the MaxxForce was based on the DT466 block but that doesn't mean you can just easily subtract the emissions crap. So best best is look for something pre-2004
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Old 12-23-2020, 07:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
higher side of average.
If going for a 2004+ I'd avoid navistar. look for cummins or cat or older than 2004.
This is something I've been wrestling with since I started reading all the great advice from the community over the last few months. Wouldn't a newer diesel, even with the extra smog stuff, be a better alternative to an older model engine with more time on it? I guess I'm confused on how much more money/trouble a newer diesel engine would necessitate. As EC implied, are there certain newer diesel engines that would be considered OK? Thanks to all the experts willingly to keep us neophytes informed.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:22 PM   #18
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This is something I've been wrestling with since I started reading all the great advice from the community over the last few months. Wouldn't a newer diesel, even with the extra smog stuff, be a better alternative to an older model engine with more time on it? I guess I'm confused on how much more money/trouble a newer diesel engine would necessitate. As EC implied, are there certain newer diesel engines that would be considered OK? Thanks to all the experts willingly to keep us neophytes informed.
Nah- you can totally replace an older engine for less than some of the minor repair jobs on newer stuff.
Imagine a $20,000 repair bill- that's a real possibility especially with later model navistar stuff.
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Old 12-23-2020, 08:38 PM   #19
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It's not so much that the engine is problematic but the emissions system and all the electronics that will get you in trouble. Modern diesel engines had to comply with ever-more-stringent environmental regulations to the point that if it detects that it's spewing a little too much pollution it's required to SHUT DOWN and it doesn't care if you're rolling down the highway or in the middle of nowhere. If you're lucky you get about 30 seconds warning and then you're stranded waiting for a tow to a dealership just so they can press some reset button and charge your a few grand. Bad enough for owner-operators who fall victim to this but private owners often never even realize the risks.

My company is very diligent about these things and keep the shop staff up on the latest Freightliner training but very infrequently I might have to run through a dealership shop. Last time I did there was a poor old guy in there with a million dollar RV that basically crapped out on him rolling down the road and all because he'd gotten some 'bad' fuel that sent the emissions system into panic mode. Thousands of dollars for towing, diags, purging the fuel and the emissions system filters - not how you want to spend your vacation. My instinct is if he could afford that quality of RV he probably could afford the repair bill but that's not the point - I'm guessing no one ever said, "avoid such and such fuel". I've only made that mistake once myself, got diesel where I was instructed but we didn't know it was 20% or more biodiesel which is more than our trucks are rated to use. No power and rough running for the next 500 miles until I could refuel and dilute that shitty California bongwater fuel but at least it didn't shut down my whole truck.

So yeah you can roll the dice with a newer model but just remember everyone here tried to warn you.
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