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Old 11-08-2017, 02:32 PM   #1
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Just got a 65' articulated Muni bus

Hi!

I am trying to register 65' articulated muni bus as an rv in the state of ca.
Does anyone know if this is possible? Are there other states where it is more likely to happen?

Brief history: I used to convert shipping containers into tiny houses and started several off-grid villages in my community. I recently left the company I co-founded and am now trying to get a performance art/ caravan adventure off the ground with a handful of intrepid friends.

Any thoughts and advice welcome for this here can of worms!

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Old 11-08-2017, 02:55 PM   #2
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That's a brave choice.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:13 PM   #3
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That's a brave choice.
Very well said.

I wish you luck, OP. You're venturing into uncharted waters. You're a pioneer!

There's always been talk of someone doing this, so please put up some pics when you can!!!

The only thing that will top this would be if someone finds or builds a DOUBLE DECKER ARTICULATED BUS!
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:46 PM   #4
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Hi!

I am trying to register 65' articulated muni bus as an rv in the state of ca.


Any thoughts and advice welcome for this here can of worms!
Oh, I like you already. Most people are intimidated by 40' of bus, so what's an extra 25' with a slinky in the middle??

It will be easier to register in California if you can get the bus assigned a Gender.

Welcome. And she did.

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Old 11-08-2017, 04:11 PM   #5
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not sure about california but some states have a 45 foot maximum for any RV or motorhome..
-Christopher
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:20 PM   #6
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not sure about california but some states have a 45 foot maximum for any RV or motorhome..
-Christopher
I see a bus...and a trailer. Just need lic plates.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:27 PM   #7
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That bus-and-trailer situation is gonna cause a problem at the Quick Emissions Inspection place -- there's no emissions test requirement for trailers, so that's easy, but the problem is there's no place to put the sniffer probe on the bus end of it. There's no exhaust pipe in that part! Maybe the front end is electric-only?

How does the propulsion work on those rigs anyway? Is the driven axle the middle or the rear? (or both??)
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:28 PM   #8
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if its articulated they may consider it permanently attached and a single vehicle..
-Christopher
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:35 PM   #9
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Yeah, you're right, the whole thing is a single (not combination) vehicle. I was just playing with the bus-and-trailer concept a little.

To OP: Is there a reason why it has to be registered as an RV? Private individuals can own and operate vehicles that are titled as a bus. Being in California, I can imagine that the recent CARB rules now going into effect for on- and off-road diesel engines might apply to a bus but not to an RV. Is that the main reason? As I recall, those CARB rules apply even to vehicles with out-of-state registration operating in CA.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:40 PM   #10
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Yeah, you're right, the whole thing is a single (not combination) vehicle. I was just playing with the bus-and-trailer concept a little.

To OP: Is there a reason why it has to be registered as an RV? Private individuals can own and operate vehicles that are titled as a bus. Being in California, I can imagine that the recent CARB rules now going into effect for on- and off-road diesel engines might apply to a bus but not to an RV. Is that the main reason? As I recall, those CARB rules apply even to vehicles with out-of-state registration operating in CA.
CARB rules apply only to vehicles purchased and used in Cali.You cannot get around this by buying out of state because the rules apply to any vehicle with under 7500 miles on the odometer.

Reciprocity means that a vehicle is covered by the state it is registered in. It can be legally driven in any state.

There may be different rules for commercial vehicles.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:52 PM   #11
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We may be thinking of different CARB rules. What I had in mind is the Truck and Bus Regulation that began being phased in on 1 Jan 2015. To me it seems this rule applies to virtually all diesel-fueled heavy vehicles (GVWR over 14,000) operated in California without regard for where the vehicle is registered. The regulation does have a list of exemptions and among those is "Motor homes for non-commercial private use".
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:56 PM   #12
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Yeah, you're right, the whole thing is a single (not combination) vehicle. I was just playing with the bus-and-trailer concept a little.

To OP: Is there a reason why it has to be registered as an RV? Private individuals can own and operate vehicles that are titled as a bus. Being in California, I can imagine that the recent CARB rules now going into effect for on- and off-road diesel engines might apply to a bus but not to an RV. Is that the main reason? As I recall, those CARB rules apply even to vehicles with out-of-state registration operating in CA.

I think if it's a bus I might need a commercial license? Also insurance is significantly more expensive. I drove it from Sacramento to Oakland with no problem but I want to try and take it LA >> NYC >> LA.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:14 PM   #13
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We may be thinking of different CARB rules. What I had in mind is the Truck and Bus Regulation that began being phased in on 1 Jan 2015. To me it seems this rule applies to virtually all diesel-fueled heavy vehicles (GVWR over 14,000) operated in California without regard for where the vehicle is registered. The regulation does have a list of exemptions and among those is "Motor homes for non-commercial private use".
I think you'll find that those regulations apply to commercial vehicles. The mention of "privately-owned" refers to owner/operators, not private motorists driving for personal reasons.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:32 PM   #14
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If the motive source is in the front half you have a perfect example of a "truck" and trailer. If the drive is in the back half the whole thing will be considered as one and the length will become a major problem--especially here in ca. I've thought of shortening a pusher to 45 feet which would clean up the length problem and allow for "easy" registration as an rv. I'd be all over that project if I had a place to work on it. Just think, a home with a granny flat--too cool. I wish you luck and look forward to seeing your progress! Jack
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:43 AM   #15
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Google says:

"California law says the maximum length of any vehicle is 40-feet 0-inches. Obviously this excludes many motorhomes, so in 2001 the Stated passed an exemption for motorhomes from 40 feet to 45 feet in length, but with major restrictions."
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:20 AM   #16
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I drove it from Sacramento to Oakland with no problem but I want to try and take it LA >> NYC >> LA.
So, how did it drive???? Was it crazy around corners? Didja get some looks???
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:10 AM   #17
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I think you'll find that those regulations apply to commercial vehicles. The mention of "privately-owned" refers to owner/operators, not private motorists driving for personal reasons.
While I completely agree that the interpretation I gave above sounds like an absurdly unreasonable over-reach... this is California and air quality we're talking about. If anybody in the nation will do such a thing it'll be them.

Did you take the time to read the Final Regulation Order? It begins as follows:
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(b) Scope and Applicability
Except as provided in subsection (c), this regulation applies to any person, business, federal government agency, school district or school transportation provider that owns or operates, leases, or rents, affected vehicles that operate in California. The regulation also applies to persons that sell affected vehicles in California and those described in section 2025(x). Affected vehicles are those that operate on diesel-fuel, dual-fuel, or alternative diesel-fuel that are registered to be driven on public highways, were originally designed to be driven on public highways whether or not they are registered, yard trucks with on-road engines or yard trucks with off-road engines used for agricultural operations, both engines of two-engine sweepers, schoolbuses, and have a manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) greater than 14,000 pounds (lbs).
(c) Exemptions
This regulation does not apply to:
(1) Vehicles subject to the solid waste collection vehicle rule commencing with title 13, CCR, section 2021;
(2) Vehicles owned or operated by a municipality, as defined in title 13, section 2020(b), that comply with the Best Available Control Technology (BACT) requirements of title 13, CCR, section 2022.1(a)(1);
(3) Vehicles subject to the fleet rule for public transit agencies commencing with title 13, CCR, section 2023;
(4) Vehicles subject to the rule for mobile cargo handling equipment at ports and intermodal rail yards commencing with title 13, CCR, section 2479;
(5) Military tactical support vehicles, as described in title 13, CCR, section 1905;
(6) Authorized emergency vehicles as described in California Vehicle Code (Veh. Code), section 165;
(7) Off-road vehicles equipped with engines subject to title 13, CCR, sections 2401, 2411, 2421, 2432, and 2449;
( Dedicated snow-removal vehicles as defined in section 2025(d)(16);
(9) Historic vehicles as defined in section 2025(d)(36);
(10) Motor homes for non-commercial private use;
(11) Except as specified in section 2025(l) vehicles subject to the regulation for drayage trucks commencing with title 13, CCR, section 2027 until January 1, 2023;
(12) Trucks with a GVWR of 19,500 lbs or less with a pick-up bed used exclusively for personal, non-commercial, or non-governmental use; and
(13) Except for two-engine sweepers, other two-engine on-road vehicles that are subject to title 13, CCR, section 2449, including but not limited to, water well drilling rigs, workover rigs, and cranes, in which one engine provides the motive power for the vehicle and a second engine is an auxiliary engine 50 horsepower or greater that is integrated into the design of the vehicle and provides power for the vehicle to perform a specialized function.
I'm not a lawyer, but I interpret "applies to any person ..." to mean private motorists are affected too. In my mind, the exclusions drawn for "Motor homes for non-commercial private use" and "Trucks with a GVWR of 19,500 lbs or less with a pick-up bed used exclusively for personal, non-commercial, or non-governmental use" further reinforce this view.

I'd love to be wrong but it sure looks to me as if CARB have really outdone themselves with this one.

Of interest to us generally, but not to OP whose bus is not a school bus, is section 2025(k)5A:
Quote:
Low-use School Buses
(A) School buses operating fewer than 1,000 miles during any compliance year are exempt from the requirements of section 2025(k), but fleet owners must comply with the record keeping requirements of section 2025(s)(3). Such vehicles must have a properly functioning odometer installed at all times.
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:15 AM   #18
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While I completely agree that the interpretation I gave above sounds like an absurdly unreasonable over-reach... this is California and air quality we're talking about. If anybody in the nation will do such a thing it'll be them.

Did you take the time to read the Final Regulation Order? It begins as follows:


I'm not a lawyer, but I interpret "applies to any person ..." to mean private motorists are affected too. In my mind, the exclusions drawn for "Motor homes for non-commercial private use" and "Trucks with a GVWR of 19,500 lbs or less with a pick-up bed used exclusively for personal, non-commercial, or non-governmental use" further reinforce this view.

I'd love to be wrong but it sure looks to me as if CARB have really outdone themselves with this one.

Of interest to us generally, but not to OP whose bus is not a school bus, is section 2025(k)5A:
The one thing Cali cannot do (and I support many of the things they do) is over rule a federal law.

The MH exemption is Federal. So with that in mind, if the CARB restrictions apply to commercial vehicles, private use is exempted.

Even some Cali bus sellers are pointing out that while vehicles are not lawful as "School Buses", they remain lawful to drive as personal vehicles.

This is the major reason that so many Crowns are appearing for sale right now
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Old 11-09-2017, 12:39 PM   #19
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The one thing Cali cannot do (and I support many of the things they do) is over rule a federal law.
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Old 11-09-2017, 01:01 PM   #20
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The one thing Cali cannot do (and I support many of the things they do) is over rule a federal law.

The MH exemption is Federal. So with that in mind, if the CARB restrictions apply to commercial vehicles, private use is exempted.

Even some Cali bus sellers are pointing out that while vehicles are not lawful as "School Buses", they remain lawful to drive as personal vehicles.

This is the major reason that so many Crowns are appearing for sale right now
putting them for sale also attract buyers from other states that have much less stringent regulations.. for instance my area in ohio doesnt even as much as have an annual inspection and no emission testing for privaste vehicles..
-Christopher
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