NEW 1st Time Skoolie - Intend to start build Fall 2021

[Jmen1011]

Thank you, new member, 1st post, I appreciate your input:

HI, thank you for you feedback.
I'm in Orlando, Fl with intentions of starting my 1st build in Fall/Winter 2021.Currently trying to decide on which base model I will be using.

I want a flat nose pusher and intend to do a roof raise. I'm not into the dog nose look and I don't enjoy the extra noise & heat that a cab over front engine brings.

Ideally I'd like to find one that max's out at 35FT (due to National Park Limits) but I've already discovered these are rare and cost more. Should I just forget about buying a shorter flat nose and start looking for the best 40FT. Those 13 rows seem to be everywhere?

In all likelihood it will just be me and 2 dogs, 40 FT is a lot of space but I will be F/T with intentions to sell my home and travel for a few years.

Also, being located in Florida I am beginning to see a lot of older (2000-2005) tour coaches for sale. Could likely PU one of these for $15K and these don't require a roof raise and come with under storage already in place. Thoughts?

[Crown_Guy]

Anyone thinking of ANY Coach for ANY price needs to search and read some of my posts and others in other sections here. I always say, and you should listen, that if you have to ask about a Coach, you can't afford it. That's not hyperbole or being negative. You simply don't have enough information, and when you do you'll understand all the hell that awaits the uninitiated. Especially someone with zero previous experience with heavy duty automotive equipment. Remember This, Where Angels Fear To Tread. They are, and usually worse than, what Airplanes, Yachts, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Sail Boats, Mansions on an Ocean cliff, take your pick, are like to keep and maintain. A RICH man's indulgence. Start cheap and SIMPLE to gain experience then move up later, if you really want a thrill and chill a minute. You'll know more and understand the dangers later after owning a simpler vehicle. And never expect to get your purchase price or labor costs back with any kind of conversion. It's purely a labor of love, and that learning experience I mentioned.

[RamRod4]

Our 78 pass. International/Amtran is 38' long for reference.

As for the length you choose, most people going solo tend to choose a smaller bus but its totally up to you. If you're comfortable driving and maneuvering a 35+ foot bus then the extra room can't hurt. Unless its going to keep you from getting to or staying at the places you want.

Rear Engine buses are the way to go in my opinion and they look nicer. To me, they're easy to drive but I'm familiar with driving larger trucks and equipment. The turning radius gets some taking used to with the steer axle being behind the driver seat but its nice once you get the feel for it.

Crown guy knows his stuff and I agree about the coaches. Theyre in a league of their own. I almost bought an MCI 102C3 and am extremely happy that I didnt. Cost to maintain is high. I do all my own mechanic work and have a large tool collection at my disposal and I'm nowhere near outfitted enough to handle maintenance on a coach.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Crown_Guy

Anyone thinking of ANY Coach for ANY price needs to search and read some of my posts and others in other sections here. I always say, and you should listen, that if you have to ask about a Coach, you can't afford it. That's not hyperbole or being negative. You simply don't have enough information, and when you do you'll understand all the hell that awaits the uninitiated. Especially someone with zero previous experience with heavy duty automotive equipment. Remember This, Where Angels Fear To Tread. They are, and usually worse than, what Airplanes, Yachts, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Sail Boats, Mansions on an Ocean cliff, take your pick, are like to keep and maintain. A RICH man's indulgence. Start cheap and SIMPLE to gain experience then move up later, if you really want a thrill and chill a minute. You'll know more and understand the dangers later after owning a simpler vehicle. And never expect to get your purchase price or labor costs back with any kind of conversion. It's purely a labor of love, and that learning experience I mentioned.

Funny what you say about if you have to ask.... I have thought of saying that many times, but just stayed quiet.


I went to a bus museum recently, and dreamed of a nice motorcoach. As far as ceiling height the ones in the museum did not have any higher ceiling height then a skoolie. In fact they felt cramped to me. Love the big old Detroits, and because I have a bunch of them in equipment I am familiar with them, and know how to take care of them. Ultimately the simplicity of a school bus really appeals to me. Heavy duty enough, certainly better then a motorhome, but without getting into some very rare parts and complicated systems of the motorcoach. Just look at the odd angled drive of an old GMC bus. Our the Voith transmissions in some buses.



So motorcoach was just too much of a labor of love for me. It is a dream for someone wholly devoted to the building process and upkeep of it.



I love my skoolie, but it even takes a good bit of time, of course I bought an antique. Not a wise choice for many.



So are you a builder looking for a project or do you want to get on the road?


Personally the Thomas safe t liner pushers I like except for the dog eared mirrors. A modern nice driving get out on the interstate and cruise all day bus. Unsually with Allison 3060 trans, and a decent engine. Get one with a high roof and you may not need a roof raise.

[Jmen1011]

Thanks for your thoughts. After these comments I googled the overhaul cost of a Detroit Diesel and after I got my socks back on quickly gave up that thought. For my Budget Skoolie is the way to go.

[Jmen1011]

Thank You all for your responses, I appreciate your knowledge and experience. I've come to see y'all are correct. Although the purchase price of a used coach is only a bit higher a google search of the engine overhaul prices was a shocker - so that thought is squashed.

So if you'll indulge me let me present a few facts and rephrase the question.



I'm 59yo, I telework and my work is very secure, my goal is to buy a bus fall/winter 2021, and complete most of build myself. I have experience in home renovations and have a working knowledge of electrical, plumbing and basic building techniques. I will likely bring in others to complete the roof raise - with 6 months to practice welding I don't feel my skills will be adequate. I have automotive repair experience but stopped working on my own cars when computers came to life. I have a friend of 25+ years who is a heavy diesel wrench and committed to being my go to guy when to comes to going thru all the bus systems and bringing me up to speed as much as he can.



I will a plan, an order of construction, and a list of all components I will add to the bus before I take out the 1st seat. I've seen those posts, Floors Up - What's next and I shake my head - That's your plan? I will have a plan but also realize sometimes the plan changes. I'm quite adept at project management.



Once the build in complete I intend to sell my home and begin life OTR. In business until COVID I was a road warrior for years. I enjoy the travel and exploration.



I would appreciate your collective knowledge in helping me narrow my bus choice.

My wish list for a bus would be:
Diesel pusher - like the visibility and no heat or noise from a front mount

At least 27 feet behind the drivers seat - still hoping for a travel mate so I will go larger if it's the best choice to fit the wish list.

Power and gearing to flat tow a small vehicle (i.e. Ford Ranger) including up mountains.

Dependability - Beginning in FLA I hope to travel the 4 corners of the country including Alaska. so availability of replacement parts and cost of repairs is a consideration.

I owned a Daimler-Chrysler and paid thru the nose for repairs. Is a Mercedes engines dependability worth the repair costs? The DT 466 seems to be the go to motor will this motor serve my other needs?


Thanks again to everyone taking the time to respond. The shared knowledge of this community is fantastic. Thank You.John

[cadillackid]

Ive not yet seen a rear engine school bus under about 32-33 feet.. most are 35-40 feet

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

Ive not yet seen a rear engine school bus under about 32-33 feet.. most are 35-40 feet

My local school system has some brand-new short REs which are 10-window (I think). I can't remember whether they're IC or Blue Bird. I've been trying to spot one again so I can get a picture.

[skoontz]

IC made some short RE busses. I have a 2005 RE300 that is 33' bumper to bumper, high roof, DT 466, MD 3060. I bought it at M&M Service and Salvage Yard in Ruckersville, VA, and they may have some more available. Good luck!

[Ronnie]

M&M does have a bunch of pushers there.

[Jmen1011]

From all I've seen that's a great combo, and with my wish list I can see myself heading towards an RE300, hopefully I can find a shorty. As I say I'm in info gathering stage, at least 8-9 months before I'm ready to buy, but I've added M&M to my list.
How does this bus tackle hills? Could it handle them with a flat tow?

If you tow, what are your climbing speeds?
Thanks for all your help and knowledge, I'm a thirsty sponge.

[skoontz]

I haven't really had mine on large long hills yet. The engine is currently rated at 210 hp, which I hope to be able to bump up a little. I do have an 8% grade near my house. From a dead stop at the bottom, the bus (empty, no towing) will climb at about 30 mph. One thing with mine (and possibly most of the busses at M&M) is that it is geared for 55mph (with 6th locked out, and a rear end gearing of 6. something). I currently run 2100 rpm at 55mph. I hope to unlock 6th, and regear the rear axle to increase the cruising speed. While not the most powerful, it should have enough power for 65 on the flats.

[RamRod4]

Originally Posted by skoontz

I haven't really had mine on large long hills yet. The engine is currently rated at 210 hp, which I hope to be able to bump up a little. I do have an 8% grade near my house. From a dead stop at the bottom, the bus (empty, no towing) will climb at about 30 mph. One thing with mine (and possibly most of the busses at M&M) is that it is geared for 55mph (with 6th locked out, and a rear end gearing of 6. something). I currently run 2100 rpm at 55mph. I hope to unlock 6th, and regear the rear axle to increase the cruising speed. While not the most powerful, it should have enough power for 65 on the flats.

Is that by chance a Fairfax County Public Schools bus? Sounds identical to mine except mine is a 78 pass 38’ with a T444e. 6.17 gears with the MD3060 and I run the same speeds at the same rpm. 6th gear is a necessity and I’ll be unlocking mine in the near future.

[skoontz]

It's an ex Loudon County Public Schools bus. 6.17 gears sounds right. At one point I did the math, and it looks like unlocking 6th would allow for 63mph at the same rpm. When I went to the salvage yard, they had several 38' busses with the T444e, and a few 33' busses with the DT466. I thought it was odd that the schools would use the small engine in the big busses, and the big engine in the small busses.

[Ronnie]

M&M is right at the base of mountains, so they might be getting buses from the mountain districts therefor small buses big engines. flatter lands to the east like Fairfax can do with smaller engines. I grew up in Fairfax before coming out this way past Warrenton.

[RamRod4]

Originally Posted by skoontz

It's an ex Loudon County Public Schools bus. 6.17 gears sounds right. At one point I did the math, and it looks like unlocking 6th would allow for 63mph at the same rpm. When I went to the salvage yard, they had several 38' busses with the T444e, and a few 33' busses with the DT466. I thought it was odd that the schools would use the small engine in the big busses, and the big engine in the small busses.

Always thought that was odd. I had heard that Fairfax liked the T444e and spec’d them with the md3060 which was a semi-unique request but more likely that it was due to them being about $2k cheaper than the 466 haha.

I’m doing some beta testing with a few others from here for some T444e tuning software. We’ll see how it runs with a little more fuel. I was also able to change the governor to 70 and turn on the cruise control as well.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by skoontz

I haven't really had mine on large long hills yet. The engine is currently rated at 210 hp, which I hope to be able to bump up a little. I do have an 8% grade near my house. From a dead stop at the bottom, the bus (empty, no towing) will climb at about 30 mph. One thing with mine (and possibly most of the busses at M&M) is that it is geared for 55mph (with 6th locked out, and a rear end gearing of 6. something). I currently run 2100 rpm at 55mph. I hope to unlock 6th, and regear the rear axle to increase the cruising speed. While not the most powerful, it should have enough power for 65 on the flats.

I have a 6.17 rear end with a 2000-series. It sucks when your bus hits top gear at 30 mph. I'd love to re-gear at some point but that's way down the list of priorities for me.

[Bikeboyz]

If you would like to talk or share info in the real world contact me. Mycheall