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Old 07-16-2020, 10:55 PM   #1
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New 91 crown supercoach 2 owner

Hello I am Ryan the very proud owner of the best thing I have ever owned a 91 crown supercoach 2. I am in the process of a motorhome/party bus conversion and am doing all the work myself. So far I have taken all seats out, changed oil fuel filters, air filter, installed a badass sound system which includes a custom box with 2 18 inch subs with 2000 watts rms to each one ( i think my bus is falling apart now but i love the look on ppls faces) i really need to find a manual or something in the mechanical/ electrical department. Its very difficult to find any kind of info on anything mechanically related like what type of tranny fluid or when should i replace the diffrential fluid or anything as far as fixing things can someone help plz thx !
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:13 PM   #2
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Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Congratultions! 2000 Watts per channel will blow a lot of sound, even when driving down the road in an uninsulated bus.
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:26 PM   #3
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If you know the make and model of the transmission you could search for that and find the specifications, oils, and service intervals. Same with the engine, the rear end, and the front axle. A wiring diagram would be nice, maybe Iceni John could help you out with that.

Yeah, that's a great bus!
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Old 07-17-2020, 12:13 AM   #4
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Your local dealer is a wealth of information. Have your VIN in hand when you talk to the parts counter.
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Old 07-17-2020, 01:39 AM   #5
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Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
Hello,
I like your Crown. I am also converting a Crown to a motor home. Mine is a 1986 tandem axle version. After purchasing it in Salinas Ca. and driving to south central Oregon without issues somehow it spun a main bearing, resulting in engine replacement. It came the the Cummins big cam 3 300 but ended up with a Cummins big cam I 400 (+). Since the big cam III had improved exhaust manifolds and turbos those were re-used. The fuel pump was overhauled and re-calibrated for the 400 HP. The compressor used on the cummins installed in Crowns is special, that too was re-used. I am now in the shop getting the pumpkins replaced in both differentials as the bus is geared too low with gear ratios of 4.10, being changed to 3.42, the tallest rears available for the Rockwell diffs. My expected redline speed will be about 77 mph.
All of this has been very expensive but will still be worth it since these Crowns go for about 20K.
The bus as a vehicle will be more usable with the new parts also.
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Old 07-17-2020, 06:26 AM   #6
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Your local dealer is a wealth of information. Have your VIN in hand when you talk to the parts counter.
IDK if there are Crown dealers.
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Old 07-17-2020, 06:56 AM   #7
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there are no crown dealers as far as i know.. best bet for shop work is a good old school semi truck shop as crowns are built like Big rigs..
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Old 07-17-2020, 08:54 AM   #8
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Hey, glad to see you here! Welcome!
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Old 07-23-2020, 06:29 PM   #9
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Year: 1989
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Chassis: 40ft 3-axle 10spd O/D, Factory A/C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenoryan View Post
Hello I am Ryan the very proud owner of the best thing I have ever owned a 91 crown supercoach 2. I am in the process of a motorhome/party bus conversion and am doing all the work myself. So far I have taken all seats out, changed oil fuel filters, air filter, installed a badass sound system which includes a custom box with 2 18 inch subs with 2000 watts rms to each one ( i think my bus is falling apart now but i love the look on ppls faces) i really need to find a manual or something in the mechanical/ electrical department. Its very difficult to find any kind of info on anything mechanically related like what type of tranny fluid or when should i replace the diffrential fluid or anything as far as fixing things can someone help plz thx !
You need to contact Iceni_John via PM asap. And you should put up as much details of what your Crown has installed, Engine, Trans, Year, etc. as much as you know, and where you're located. You may be near enough to meet us here in So. Cal.

John and I can help you a lot but we need info to know how to help. I don't expect you to know much of this yet but that's what we can help you with. You also don't seem to be following up on your own posts and they tend to get lost if you don't stay active and respond. Contact me direct if you want and I'll get you in direct contact with John. Just in case you don't know why we all say talk to John, it's because he has a Crown II like yours and has done tons of research on them and can help you out a lot. mikemcc2k@yahoo.com
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Old 07-24-2020, 02:30 AM   #10
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Location: Bly Oregon
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Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
Info about Crown coaches

My research over the years found that when Crown delivered a bus a manual was created for that particular bus and delivered with it. I have also been told that most of the original factory documentation no longer exists. That being said, I have learned that Crown purchased the driveline, chassis engines, transmissions, etc off the shelf. They created the frame and coach themselves. This is a good thing. Some years back I went to get a front end alignment performed on my first Crown, but the alignment computer had no listing for Crown. The mechanic climbed under the bus and located a tag rivited to the front axle, identified who made it and what model it was. It turned out that the same front end was used on a Blue Bird bus, which was listed in the computer, thus the alignment was able to be performed. I have acquired a couple of Crown manuals over the years, and some of the chassis and body parts may be common between our Crowns, but yours is rear engine while mine are mid engine. Both of my crowns have Allison transmissions but thye are different from each other, as one bus came with a Detroit Diesel and the other a Cummins of different horsepower ratings. I don't know if there are any Fleetpride stores where you live, but they would be a good source of parts to keep it going. You will likely find through examination that parts on your Crown are also used on over the road trucks.
As for my new Crown, it came with a Cummins big cam III 300 with mechanical valve timing (MVT), an Allison HT740 transmission and two Rockwell QD 100 QX differentials. For some reason it came equipped with two "front" differentials instead of one "front" and one "rear". This complicated the replacement of both "pumpkins" to change the gear ratios from 4.10 to 3.42. The original engine spun a main bearing and was stuck. I had to replace it as that was supposed to be cheaper. I found a good used Cummins big cam I 400 that came from a cabover Freightliner? and used that as the basis for replacement. Interestingly enough I found that the only differences betwwen a big cam 300 and a big cam 400 are the injectors and the fuel pump. When the engine replacement was done the big cam I 400 was stripped down to a long block and all external components from the big cam III 300 were used since the big cam III came the the pulse exhaust manifold and a better turbo. The compressor is also special to a Crown due to the engine laying on its side, necessitating different oil passages. The water pump was different between the two engines, as well as the accessory drive. The block heater was also replaced due to differences in cooling system plumbing. Being rear engine your radiator will be different, as well as your fuel tank, and your frame. I'm sorry I don't know more about the supercoach 2, but I hope that this helps. One more snippet, on my first Crown, during the front end alignment work the mechanic found I had a broken leaf in the left front spring. I was able to take it to Valley Fabricators in Salinas, Ca where they replaced the broken leaf in the spring. I think a truck repair shop could also do that work. All of the mechanical repair/upgrade on my "new" Crown is being done at a shop that does the big trucks. On my "old" Crown I also took it to a truck repair shop in Salinas for service, etc. That shop actually did a few state funded Crown re-powers. In my case I lived in Ca. along the central coast where Crowns were more common, at a time where school districts still ran them. It will be more difficult the further east you go, as most Crowns stayed on the west coast, but go to the truck shops, they will know what they are looking at and be able to help you (and Fleetpride)
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:13 PM   #11
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Year: 1980
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IDK if there are Crown dealers.
Ha! Your right, not gonna have any luck there!

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Originally Posted by Crown_Guy View Post
You need to contact Iceni_John via PM asap. And you should put up as much details of what your Crown has installed, Engine, Trans, Year, etc. as much as you know, and where you're located. You may be near enough to meet us here in So. Cal.
Mike is right, he and John are 2 of the most knowledgeable people you will ever find when it comes to Crowns. I have him specifically to thank for the beauty sitting in my own driveway right now. Also look to Crown Coach Junkies on FB, tons of experts on there as well.

Unfortunately I think Mike is right, it doesn't seem like he will be back, or update anything and more than likely that Super II will be on marketplace within the year. Hopefully Kenoryan will prove me wrong
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:16 PM   #12
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It will be more difficult the further east you go, as most Crowns stayed on the west coast,
That is the understatement of the year!
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Old 07-26-2020, 07:48 AM   #13
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Haha I dont plan on ever selling my crown anytime soon or ever. I was offered ten grand already and turned it down I love this bus its the best thing I have ever owned. Sorry for not replying fast enough this is my first time actually joining and posting anything on a forum. I was surprised to actually see anyone even respond and with that being said I thank you guys for your interest in helping. I recently somehow managed to screw my aux air system up and I believe this happened while replacing the lights on the cluster. If anyone can help point me in the right direction as far as what I may have done. In the meantime I have checked any fuse I can locate and am in the process of tracing wires that may lead to some type of solenoid or relay related to the air tank for the aux air. Also any ideas on locking the door would be great otherwise Im planning on installing a deadbolt because the only other way i have been able to secure the door was reaching thru the window and closing it using the door switch but this isnt an option at the moment being that i now am without air for the door as well as the seat, wipers (good thing it hardly rains in SO CA. Again I thank you guys for your response and as far as the details on my crown its a 91 with the detroit 6v9 engine allisson auto tranny 400k miles recently changed the oil using what i have read not to use but was able to find the maint history under long beach school dist web site which popped up when i googled the vin number. The school district was using chev del ck4 10-40 which I was reading is not good for 2 strokes but I figured if thats what they used I hope Im good lol anyways I sound like an idiot mechanic but Im really badass when it come to anything but am not perfect and am still learning so before I ever have my bus on the marketplace it will be on the drawing board in a million pieces
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Old 07-26-2020, 10:20 AM   #14
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Tried Iceni_John and an error occured no user found
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Old 07-26-2020, 06:59 PM   #15
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Posts: 178
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: 40ft 3-axle 10spd O/D, Factory A/C
Engine: 300hp Cummins 855
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Tried Iceni_John and an error occured no user found
Apparently his username has NO underscore in it, my fault. You can check the list of all members, which I just did and his username is Iceni John with a SPACE in between. You are in obvious need of some serious help. Before you go tearing stuff out or proceeding with tracing wires down you really should contact me direct or John which I can give you his email and phone number. The PM on this site is rather lame and the direct contact approach for us both is the best. mikemcc2k@yahoo.com

First of all I don't understand your statement that you've messed up the aux air with some kind of wiring problem???? That doesn't begin to compute. Second thing is that the oil you're using in the engine is NOT THE CORRECT oil no matter what the school district records show. You need to use ONLY DELO 100 CF2 rated straight 40 wt oil or equivalent. That 10-40 wt. rating makes my skin crawl, very bad. My guess is that it leaks and slobbers oil out of every possible opening and blows blue smoke as it drives, Lots of smoke that never clears up. That's not right and directly related to the oil.

There are only a very few other brands with equivalent oils currently available. Rotello makes one and beyond that I'm not sure. John uses Rotello T1 straight 40wt. when he can find deals at Wally Mart and it's the correct oil to use the key is the CF2 rating. Anything else is not recommended and will eventually do harm to the engine.

You really need to take a deep breath and stop thrashing about without knowing what you're doing or you will make many expensive mistakes and forced repairs due to your doing things that shouldn't be done or breaking things that were really not broken, merely not understood by you, yet.

The entry door has a method for physically using a padlock. It involved the Crown key which is used to open all the exterior panels and is a square kind of tapered key inserted into the panel lock openings. Please don't cut or chop or drill any holes in the door or kludge up a messy kind of deadbolt before talking to me or John. It already exists and all you need is to be told and shown where it is. This is a perfect example of how your lack of current knowledge will cause damage and create more trouble for you later.

That Crown II is different than anything you have ever dealt with and you will cause yourself lots of expensive trouble unless you listen to those who do know what we're talking about. That's really John for the Crown II's. Basic Crown stuff I can help you with and you should listen. Otherwise you get to learn all those expensive lessons on your own. And they can be VERY expensive. Like a blown engine, for instance, if you keep using that oil. 400k on that engine without any re-builds means it's getting close to a major need for expensive in-frame work, which can easily top $15K+ assuming you can even find anyone who still remembers how to work on a 2-stroke Detroit. That's a real challenge today with the dwindling numbers of Detroit 2-strokes still out there. And you should also be using the correct ATF too in the Allison.

First off. Where are you located. That's very important as we may be able to get you in touch with mechanics or others near you.

Hang on. I just re-read your post,

and by the way Paragraphs are your friend.....

I caught a reference to So. CA. Is that were you currently are located?? If so you're in our backyard, both John and I, so you're in luck since we can come see your Crown and help you out with first hand visual and hands on experience. I can also turn you on to the best place to buy the correct oil, in Long Beach, which is where I get all my oil for only about $10 a gallon. You just can't beat the price.

Second. Take the time to find out what you have in the way of Engine, Transmission, if it has Air ride(bags) on the rear axle, as I suspect it does, the year it was built, which is on the data plate. Be precise and take your time. It really matters.

I'll go first and try to help you out. It sounds from your snippet that it has a Detroit Diesel 2-stroke 6V92 engine. The most common transmissions used would have been an Allison MT643 mated with that engine. A very few had a 6V92 higher horsepower rated engine installed and they would have the MT740 Allison in them, but those are pretty rare and only the lucky would have found them.....Like John. That's what his has.

The year may be a factor since that was the last year Crown was in business and building anything. Long Beach Unified may have bought whatever they could get and settled for anything made by Crown. John may have better ideas about what the last Crowns were like and issues affecting the last Crowns ever built. I've heard stories but never had to worry since all mine are not in the last batches off the line.

Trust me when I say you have a lot to learn and if you take the time now to gather your thoughts and get the correct information, and learn from it, you'll save yourself a ton of money and time later on and get the most out of your Crown.

By the way as to the matter of Crown owner manuals, the answer is that the only thing Crown ever did was to provide a 3-ring binder with the manuals for the various OEM equipment manufacturers they installed on THAT bus.

Crowns were ALL custom ordered and spec'd by the buyer and Crown merely built to order. That means that they were all different within a certain range of options, and the individual Crown bus could have most anything installed in it. In actual fact they are very similar and the differences aren't that much, but you need to take the time to determine the actual equipment installed. That includes the rear-axle(s) either Rockwell, or another brand, the transmission by that time were mostly Allison automatics, MT643, MT644, HT740 for instance, the suspension system was either leaf springs all around or sometimes air bags in the rear, sometimes air ride all around front and back.

Engines could have been either the Detroit 6V92 in a couple of horsepower ratings, a Cummins 8.3 inline 6, or a Caterpillar 3208. I've seen them all in Crown II's and lots of other types of installed equipment.

You MUST take the time to find out EXACTLY what you have and that way you'll know how to proceed. Oh, there were only about 4-5 Crown Dealers ever and they were all on the West coast in northern CA., OR. and WA. and that was back in the Glory days. Beyond that all Crown users were on their own, and dealt directly with Crown for parts support mostly. They used their own in-house trained mechanics on-site to keep their fleets repaired. That's you now. And the rest of us as well who own Crowns. We're it, and we know it, and make arrangements to deal with the reality.

Crowns are actually very easy to get work done on if you know who and how to talk to shops and mechanics familiar with heavy duty over the road truck type vehicles. Most drive-line parts are still made today and if not there are plenty of them out there and easy to find. Crowns were built to be repaired and kept on the road. But it still required some special skills and knowledge of the differences in the bus application of the various components. Certainly not hard, but merely different.

Slow down and get yourself educated and you'll find it much easier and more fun to work on them. They aren't real complicated and when it starts to sink in for you it will make a lot more sense on how everything works together.

Crowns are special and demand a different level of commitment since they will last for many more decades if treated well. You should also plan on driving it about 50 miles every month around town to keep everything lubed, batteries charged, and loose, otherwise other nasty things start to happen due to neglect. Crowns MUST be driven, and when used as they were intended they offer much fewer problems. When ready to take it on the road you'll see what I mean. The more you drive a Crown the better it likes it.
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Old 07-26-2020, 08:58 PM   #16
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Ok I am not going to debate anything because I totally agree with everything said. Although I am not thrashing anything I wilk admit the slowing down part. i will change the oil tomorrow and use the correct oil because i did notice the smoke and leaks but was under the impression the leaking was normal but Something I would love to fix in the future. As far as my statement regarding the aux air I was referring to the accessories air that supplies air to the door, wipers, seat ect... This stopped working after I was replacing the lights that illuminate the cluster being that I could not see any gauges at night because none were working and discovered the reason being was they were burnt out. My suspicion leads me to believe there is a solenoid or relay of some sort connected to the instrument cluster thar controls the air pressure or whatever related to the accessories tank.
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Old 07-26-2020, 09:37 PM   #17
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Posts: 178
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: 40ft 3-axle 10spd O/D, Factory A/C
Engine: 300hp Cummins 855
Rated Cap: 91
Quote:
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Ok I am not going to debate anything because I totally agree with everything said. Although I am not thrashing anything I wilk admit the slowing down part. i will change the oil tomorrow and use the correct oil because i did notice the smoke and leaks but was under the impression the leaking was normal but Something I would love to fix in the future. As far as my statement regarding the aux air I was referring to the accessories air that supplies air to the door, wipers, seat ect... This stopped working after I was replacing the lights that illuminate the cluster being that I could not see any gauges at night because none were working and discovered the reason being was they were burnt out. My suspicion leads me to believe there is a solenoid or relay of some sort connected to the instrument cluster thar controls the air pressure or whatever related to the accessories tank.
By the way...what makes you think they were ALL burned out. That's not too likely actually. What most likely happened is that the dash light dimmer knob is turned all the way down or has a dead spot in it, which IS pretty likely based on my experiences, and then all the dash lights will remain dutifully off. There is a knob around the dash area and I'm not the best one to ask where it's located, but John knows for sure since he owns a Crown II like yours, and I'll bet that it's the cause of your dead dash lights......or another cause could simply be that you haven't found the separate and labelled switch on the panel that turns them on..... they don't just come on with the head or clearance lights, it's a separate switch marked "dash" strangely enough. There's also a "map" switch which is the overhead drivers light above your head. Many separate switches for different things, like for instance the step well light by the door has a separate switch and goes off and on as you open and close the door, via an air pressure sensing switch. The luggage bay compartment lights may have a switch to turn them on and off, there are two or more separate switches for the interior lights as well left and right side, there may be more and is dependent on whatever the customer ordered or Crown decided to put in. Some switches are not used and even if labeled doesn't mean they work, since the dash panel was a pre-fabricated panel with all possible of the usual options included in the design.

This is all very typical of all bus and coach designs. Many switches for many things most people are not familiar with ever encountering. It's a Bus thing.

Slow down and let us help you. You don't know yet what you don't know.

Before you go tearing into and opening up the dash cluster you should make triple sure you have tried all the common problems first and even then put a volt meter on the power feeds to the dash lights to see if there is any voltage going to them first. If not, then it's not the lights, it's something else. Like a dimmer turned all the way down, or with a dead spot, or the dash light switch not being turned on.

Actually even if you have found and turned on the dash switch, it could be faulty, I have that problem with my own Crown where the map light switch only works half the time. I really don't like the rocker switches, and all are on my list to be replaced and upgraded later to toggles. But it can wait for now. The point is that your switch may be bad and not feeding current to the dash cluster. This is where a good volt meter comes in real handy.

There is no solenoid or any kind of electrical component at all in the entire air system anywhere other than for low pressure sensors to light buzzers and warning lights.

Totally mechanical and no electrical whatsoever, period. If the air accessories are not working it's related to an air system problem. I takes about 10-15 minutes, at idle, for the entire air system to come up and the accessory tank is the last one that gets air. They won't work until it gets air pressure.

If they aren't working the accessory tank doesn't have any air yet. Check the windshield wiper valves for leaks and turn them until the leaks stop. If they are leaking it will prevent the air tank from getting filled all the way. This is common and due to lack of being driven and daily use and will tend to go away as you use and drive the bus.

You should see about 115 lbs at least on both air gauges when it's all up. It hesitates as it comes up at around 60psi which is when it starts filling the secondary and then the accessory tanks.

This is exactly what I mean. I didn't say you were thrashing anything, but you are thrashing about and doing things without full knowledge.

For instance where do you think you will get the 10 or so Gallons of CF2 40wt oil?? I happen to know it's very hard to find in those quantities on the shelf and you'll pay around $20-30 per Gallon retail at any store or outlet I'm aware of. If you're located in So Cal, which you still haven't confirmed, I can give you the details of where to go get the absolute correct oil for $10 a Gallon. Don't be in such a hurry to change the oil since you just did it apparently. It's fine as it is for a little while longer as long as you're not putting lots of miles on the engine.

There's a lot for you to do and some of it can wait and some should be dealt with soon. Contact me and I'll give you Johns and the oil place and other info you're going to need. mikemcc2k@yahoo.com
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Old 07-27-2020, 10:30 PM   #18
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Year: 1990
Coachwork: integral
Chassis: Crown Supercoach II (rear engine)
Engine: Detroit 6V92TAC, DDEC 2, Jake brake, Allison HT740
Rated Cap: 37,400 lbs GVWR
Ryan, where are you in SoCal? We need to talk. PM me please. If you're near Orange County you may be able to make copies of my Crown manuals, parts catalogs, electrical and DDEC schematics, etc etc - I have several dozen binders full of info about every part of my bus, and a Pro-Link scanner for DDEC so I can clear codes if needed. And as Mike says, don't start faffing about with what you don't yet understand, otherwise you'll end up with a very dead (or worse) bus. I've had my bus for about eleven years, and at this point there's precious little I don't know about it.

John

PS - Only use straight 40-weight CF-2 oil and nothing else. No effing multi-weight, please. OK?
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Old 07-31-2020, 09:45 AM   #19
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Posts: 214
Year: 1980
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: Supercoach
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What most likely happened is that the dash light dimmer knob is turned all the way down or has a dead spot in it, which IS pretty likely based on my experiences, mikemcc2k@yahoo.com
I feel this one in my bones, I spent a couple days tracing wires and testing circuits in the dash with my power probe before I figured out there was a dimmer knob on the far right side of the dash, hidden from view, and one of the leads was snapped off. Put a new terminal on and she was good to go. Used the opportunity to go all LED in the dash so now she looks good and bright. Even found the funny amber downlights that light the switches.
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Old 07-31-2020, 10:09 AM   #20
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Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
I thought I would add an additional two cents about getting work done on a Crown Bus. I agree with the others about where to get work done to your Crown. I have used two different shops to have work done and both were truck shops. Edwards truck in Salinas Ca. was the first one, and they always did excellent work. I am now going to a shop in Klamath Falls Or. Today I am picking up my Crown after getting the gear ratio changed in the diffs. Just like a car repair shop, it isn't cheap, but so far no worse than car repair shops. My experience is that most everything that crown used such as engine, trans, diffs, suspension, steering, brakes, etc are truck parts or common to other brands of buses. I go to Fleetpride for parts. They are a chain that caters to truckers. Parts aren't cheap either, same as keep an 18 wheeler on the road. If your bus is in good shape to begin with I don't think you can wear it out as Crowns are made for a lifespan approaching 1,000,000 miles, just the same as Petes, Freightliners, etc. As for tracing wires, my Crowns have circuit breakers that are labeled. I have been discovering that I have some minor wiring issues, but nothing scary. I have concluded that some of the school districts will cut corners and not fix things right if it is not a safety issue.
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