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Old 09-12-2021, 11:15 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
Don't they let you pitch a tent anywhere in Calif. these days. Use the gutter for your toilet?
Hey man donít be hatiní

The homeless people that donít know how to behave are ruining it for everyone.

I got two words for you: Work Camps

Canít contribute? GTFO to Georgia or wherever

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Old 09-13-2021, 07:27 AM   #42
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Danjo:
The homeless people that donít know how to behave are ruining it for everyone.

I got two words for you: Work Camps

Canít contribute? GTFO to Georgia or wherever

‐‐-------------

Work camps?
Li'l Hitler's suggestion.
That mentality has historically enslaved most of the 'homeless natives' of the earth.


Iím not in this world to live up to your expectations and youíre not in this world to live up to mine.
Ė Bruce Lee
.
.
.
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Old 09-13-2021, 08:09 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by DeMac View Post
Danjo:
The homeless people that donít know how to behave are ruining it for everyone.

I got two words for you: Work Camps

Canít contribute? GTFO to Georgia or wherever

‐‐-------------

Work camps?
Li'l Hitler's suggestion.
That mentality has historically enslaved most of the 'homeless natives' of the earth.


Iím not in this world to live up to your expectations and youíre not in this world to live up to mine.
Ė Bruce Lee
.
.
.
Itís partly in jest, partly out of frustration. Has your home town been overrun by people that donít care that they drop a deuce on your doorstep, camp on your doorstep and make threats when you protest, steal all the townís bicycles to turn into dope, litter and scrawl graffiti on everything?

When I think of work camps, I think of tiny houses, communal facilities. Got a job? Great, work yourself out of homelessness (I did). Donít have a job? Great, work for us keeping the town clean and in good repair, weíll send you to school to learn how to do something.

Able bodied and canít do either? Go somewhere else.

God I sound like a conservative or something
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Old 09-13-2021, 10:33 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMac View Post
Danjo:
...Work Camps...

‐‐-------------

Work camps?...
.
.
.
.
We are workkampers.
We signed with a variety of workkamper brokers and coordinators to help employers all over North America.
.
Although this was productive for all parties for a decade or so, we found our current gig by networking, direct person-to-person with those individuals most likely to fit our needs.
.
Developing our RequirementsStatement for our latest gig, we quickly realized the obvious direction -- farmer markets.
.
In the first minutes at our first farmer market, we met folks looking for our skills and ability to contribute.
.
An aside:
We playfully added a side-note about some mules for trail-rides... and these folks have some!
.
In my experience, 'ask, and receive'.
.
PS:
If I look around the rig, I might find that brown grocery-bag with our RequirementsStatement on it.
If I remember right, I drew a pasture with a babbling brook... and our small organic teaching farm has a creek.
.
Imagine that!
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Old 09-13-2021, 11:01 AM   #45
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I live in Colorado where zoning laws are pretty strict, although every county and HOA is different. The county I live in doesn't seem to have anything really specific on the books, so my living full-time in my bus in the woods on private land where I pay rent is legal... until someone complains, then it's illegal, I get kicked out, and the wonderful people I rent from get a hefty fine. That happened to a neighbor up the mountain from me. So I make sure to keep my place looking like nice, no piles of stuff on around or under my bus to make it an eyesore that neighbors might notice and complain about.


Plenty of rural counties here allow people to live in RVs in the summer, but the RV must be removed from the land by November 1st, not to return until spring.


And some counties here take periodic drone images of their territory, which a computer program compares to previous drone images to see if residents have built any unpermitted structures on their land. If a county has that much funding, being remote and out of sight from the road and neighbors won't help.


Bus living is the best. Finding bus parking is the worst! Good luck!
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Old 09-13-2021, 02:48 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
God I sound like a conservative or something

Ya sure do......


It's just like the caterpillar, Chrysalis, butterfly stages in nature.



Just as the caterpillar thinks only of eating everything in sight with no concern for teh damage done, the the first two to three decades of human life generally consist of "give me, give me". (The label being: democrat, progressive, communist, socilaist, etc.)



Then just as suddenly as the caterpillar turns to creating it's chrysalis, the human reaches a point where they COULD be doing well except for all the things taken from them by the voracious caterpillars. (The label being: republican, capitalist, fascist, etc.)



And then the transformation into a butterfly for the caterpillar. For the human, realization that they've become an actual conservative. That they want to keep the stuff they made. That they want to be left alone, etc. (The label being: conservative classical liberal, libertarian, selfish, mean, etc.)


And then there are the "country boys" (and girls) who simply skipped the first two stages.
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Old 09-13-2021, 07:29 PM   #47
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Ya sure do......


It's just like the caterpillar, Chrysalis, butterfly stages in nature.



Just as the caterpillar thinks only of eating everything in sight with no concern for teh damage done, the the first two to three decades of human life generally consist of "give me, give me". (The label being: democrat, progressive, communist, socilaist, etc.)



Then just as suddenly as the caterpillar turns to creating it's chrysalis, the human reaches a point where they COULD be doing well except for all the things taken from them by the voracious caterpillars. (The label being: republican, capitalist, fascist, etc.)



And then the transformation into a butterfly for the caterpillar. For the human, realization that they've become an actual conservative. That they want to keep the stuff they made. That they want to be left alone, etc. (The label being: conservative classical liberal, libertarian, selfish, mean, etc.)


And then there are the "country boys" (and girls) who simply skipped the first two stages.

I was joking again. Iím not conservative and I didnít shortcut to being closed minded, or a moronposa.
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Old 09-13-2021, 09:10 PM   #48
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curious....256 is the largest integer that will not fit in a 1 byte (8bits) integer data field in a data base, 0-255 fits.....maybe they just don't want to update the software and hardware ($$$), similar to the year 2000 date field problem with old hardware and software
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR9qdBso
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Old 09-14-2021, 05:47 AM   #49
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I think you can pretty much park your RV on your own property for as long as you like if remote. Ya, do some more research on the states you might want too stay in. I'd like to own a parking space on a river in Montana or Wyoming.
When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid.


Been away for a while -- amusing to see the same ol' BS flowing hard here...
Maybe I'll come back again in another six months...

Kudos's to John61ct for still having the patience to write accurate information to wash away the nonsense...

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True for most. But in some states each township has its own regs and varying enforcement levels.

>Most states, not all, preempt the Counties on environmental regulations like septic and water. Sometimes the Counties have environmental regulations that are more strict than the State. Any State / County that has large finances is generally very aggressive about enforcement. They take your money and use it against you. Poor States / Counties generally donít aggressively enforce regulations and tend to look the other way until someone complains. What the original poster wants to do may be possible for a while in some places, but, in the long run it may be problematic. This is going to take a lot of research on his part. Look for states with lots of land and small populations, that equals less bureaucrats per square mile. That will narrow it down. Then look for states with relaxed emission / environmental standards. Then look for states with lower per capita income and low overall tax rates. Then research the counties in those states for the same criteria, and check their land use regulations.

All true, but

It is also possible to just ask for suggestions in online fora and SM for suggestions from a practical POV where communities are OK with shacks, tents whatever long term.


> At that point you may be able to buy land and use it as you see fit.

The actual regs as written, and enforcement issue can of course change, sometimes quickly. So best to find places where that is less likely, and where new incoming foreigners are more welcome.

Such Wild West style cultures, outsiders are hated, the locals are thieves and violent as well, and you won't find protection from the law.
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Old 09-14-2021, 06:06 AM   #50
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Don't they let you pitch a tent anywhere in Calif. these days. Use the gutter for your toilet?
Once again not comprehending the difference between "what is legal"; "what is permissible"; and what is actually enforced, either due to LEO priority or economic viability...
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Old 09-14-2021, 06:22 AM   #51
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SNIP...

It seems like it would be extremely difficult to prove that someone was living in a motorhome for 257 days out of the year instead of just 256.
Or LEO may task YOU with proving where and how you live somewhere else for 109 days...

If your neighbors complain of "code violations" it's usually on YOU to demonstrate code compliance...

This IS a realm of enforcement where you ARE guilty till YOU prove your innocence...
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Old 09-14-2021, 10:19 AM   #52
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Same with owing of taxes or not.

Some states would asses separate property taxes on an RV

As well as improvements to real property
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Old 09-14-2021, 04:01 PM   #53
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Or LEO may task YOU with proving where and how you live somewhere else for 109 days...

If your neighbors complain of "code violations" it's usually on YOU to demonstrate code compliance...

This IS a realm of enforcement where you ARE guilty till YOU prove your innocence...

They may, and it is a standard operating procedure to try to intimidate and coerce. However, it's still on them to prove their case.
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Old 09-14-2021, 04:49 PM   #54
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"You and what army?" is no way to live in a community

Choose your place so you feel secure for a few years at least.

But they can (as always) change the rules on you.

or a new neighbor moving in causes the previously ignored rules to now be enforced.

Life is not fair, and this is not a "God given right", just a contingent one, subject to revocation anytime.

Comply or leave.
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Old 09-14-2021, 06:04 PM   #55
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Life is not fair, and this is not a "God given right", just a contingent one, subject to revocation anytime.
Comply or leave.
Actually, any law restricting us in any way, even from committing murder (extreme example) is nothing more than a man made construct. Those who desire restrictions and controls can live in cities and HOA's. Those who desire freedom and liberty, on their own land, do indeed have the inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Unfortunately, the concept that the Constitution grants no rights to the people for it is their granting of limited rights to government and nothing else, has been forgotten and this country is exceedingly full of man made constructs that certainly exceed Article 1 Section 8.
But we are the minority with those in the cities making up 75% of the population and setting the rules.....such is the tyranny of a republic treated like a democracy.
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Old 09-14-2021, 10:04 PM   #56
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Yes my comments were wrt reality as it presents itself, not political ideology.

I personally feel the protection of neighbor's property values should be a super low priority relative to affordable housing, unregulated living in tents, tree houses whatever.

But that is not a view shared by most voters in this country.
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Old Yesterday, 08:17 AM   #57
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Yes my comments were wrt reality as it presents itself, not political ideology.

I personally feel the protection of neighbor's property values should be a super low priority relative to affordable housing, unregulated living in tents, tree houses whatever.

But that is not a view shared by most voters in this country.
You is still spot on!

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They may, and it is a standard operating procedure to try to intimidate and coerce. However, it's still on them to prove their case.
Failure to meet or comply with a code violation results in fines or forfeiture...

When the township, county, (whomever) takes you to court saying "I'm innocent" is NOT a defense, or at least it's not a winning defense...

It might be easy to "prove" you're right but you'll still have to spend your own resources (even if that's just your time) proving it.

When my bus was visited by it's twin bus last summer I got a code violation from the Township. I live out in farmland BUT no commercial vehicles are allowed to be parked there. I said my bus has motorhome plates on it -- would you like me to send you a pic of the plate. I was told no need, no problem, thank you for calling (no further action required). I then learned that my more normal camper parked in the dirt behind the garage was a violation (has to be parked on gravel/pavement) but no one ever complained about that, just as no one ever complained about the neighbors work truck (commercial plates). I was further told the township does not drive around looking for violations -- they only respond to call-in-complaints...

So to be clear -- the Township's "case" was a pic of my bus in my 110 foot long driveway. It was on ME to show (or prove) that my bus was not a commercial vehicle.

My experience in rural OH
YMMV...
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Old Yesterday, 03:15 PM   #58
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When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid.


Been away for a while -- amusing to see the same ol' BS flowing hard here...
Maybe I'll come back again in another six months...

Kudos's to John61ct for still having the patience to write accurate information to wash away the nonsense...

Does a toad know that he is a toad?
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Old Yesterday, 03:58 PM   #59
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When the township, county, (whomever) takes you to court saying "I'm innocent" is NOT a defense, or at least it's not a winning defense...

It might be easy to "prove" you're right but you'll still have to spend your own resources (even if that's just your time) proving it.

LEO's telling you to prove your whereabouts to comply with some random number of days code is largely what I was referring to. LEO's as well as code enforcement and other government agents generally think they have far more power than they do and use that perceived power to intimidate and coerce "cooperation". When they don't get that "cooperation" they sometimes, particularly with LEO's, get their egos hurt and try to double down.


Bottom line, just because someone say "prove it" doesn't mean squat. In fact, when it comes to any government agent the best thing to say is "do you have a warrant"? If not, kick them off your land via trespass notice (verbal not physical unless they go there) and if they don't, call the Sheriff or local PD.


With Code enforcement, they need CONSENT to enter your property and/or buildings without a warrant (just like any other government agent) but they aren't used to getting them so they will typically sneak around when no one is home or try to bully their way to "consent".


If the violation is a town code it would be "tried" in a municipal "court". Muni courts are "courts of no record" and as such are a joke. In some states the "judge" doesn't even have to have any legal training. They are also employees of the municipality, not elected. As such, their job is to provide the appearance of due process while producing revenue for the municipality.
"Trial" in muni court, being a "court of no record" means that the "state" (muni) has to show their hand...how they intend to win their case.... and when convicted, you simply demand a "trial de novo" and the case is tried anew in a real court.
Now, all states vary and they all use different names, but the basics are hashed out within US Supreme Court precedence and the Constitutions of the fed and state. However, you never have to prove your case.
In the case that they have a picture of the violation, yes, they've presented a pretty good case probably proven to the required standard. At this point you now need to destroy their case with good legal argument or acknowledge the violation and argue on some other basis such as constitutionality, jurisdiction, standing, failure to enforce fairly, etc.
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Old Yesterday, 09:36 PM   #60
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Personally, I would accept the fact that the community has the right to regulate the use of our land.

It is incumbent on me to do the necessary due diligence research, that I will be allowed to do what I want in that jurisdiction and specific location, before I make the investment in the land.

Becoming a friendly and helpful neighbor, contributing to the larger community, volunteering and constructively participating over time, etc

But things can change, it's not as if there is any contract that a decade later my exact same land use will still be acceptable.

You roll the dice and take your chances.
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