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10-04-2021, 04:30 PM
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#81
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Golden Valley AZ
Posts: 1,036
Year: 1993
Chassis: ThomasBuilt 30'
Engine: need someone to tell me
Rated Cap: me + 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo
I think one thing to add here is visibility. I know some people who live up on a mountain with good relations with their adjacent neighbors. No one cares about the ever-expanding, unpermitted “utility building”.
I’ve heard of county administrators using satellite images and helicopter to determine what’s legit, so taking the temperature of the local building officials is probably a good idea
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my experience is that "the temperature of the local building officials" changes along with complaints and budget requirement (they get more active when they need more $$ or when their phone is ringing)
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10-04-2021, 07:17 PM
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#82
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pensacola and Crystal River, FL
Posts: 647
Year: 1998
Coachwork: AmTran International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar 7.6L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo
I think one thing to add here is visibility. I know some people who live up on a mountain with good relations with their adjacent neighbors. No one cares about the ever-expanding, unpermitted “utility building”.
I’ve heard of county administrators using satellite images and helicopter to determine what’s legit, so taking the temperature of the local building officials is probably a good idea
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My county in Florida hires private aircraft to grid fly over the entire county even few years. In several patterns taking several pictures.
You property account on the county website contains several aerial photos of your property going back 30 years, sometimes.
Maybe a dozen pics from a dozen angles every three years or so.
If the appraiser crew sees something that looks like a structure or a vehicle in the same spot too long and no permitting shows up for it, they come knocking for a look see.
Not unheard of in other states either.
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10-04-2021, 07:38 PM
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#83
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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Permitting wrt a parked vehicle???
So long as it's not visible from the road and no one is living in it, should be no problem.
Some places might want to ensure there's no polluting jmpact, protecting groundwater
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10-04-2021, 07:53 PM
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#84
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,607
Year: 1996
Coachwork: AmTran (Now Navistar)
Engine: DT444E (7.3L) International
Rated Cap: 31,800 pounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo
I’ve heard of county administrators using satellite images and helicopter to determine what’s legit, so taking the temperature of the local building officials is probably a good idea
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You're a bit behind on the tech.
Now they use aerial and satellite photos from online sources and keyed to GIS information.
They also deploy drones (often illegally)
And then for the low budget local officials there's google maps to watch for updates and then compare.
__________________
YouTube: HAMSkoolie WEB: HAMSkoolie.com
We've done so much, for so long, with so little, we now do the impossible, overnight, with nothing. US Marines -- 6531, 3521. . . .Ret ASE brakes & elect. Ret (auto and aviation mech). Extra Class HAM, NAUI/PADI OpenWater diver
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10-04-2021, 07:55 PM
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#85
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,607
Year: 1996
Coachwork: AmTran (Now Navistar)
Engine: DT444E (7.3L) International
Rated Cap: 31,800 pounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleO7
...in the same spot too long and no permitting shows up for it, they come knocking for a look see.
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Bring your warrant, issued by a neutral Magistrate, based on an affidavit filed under penalty of perjury......oh yeah, and on a suspected CRIME.
Civil infractions are not crimes. Ooops
Good strong TALL fences make for better neighbors and better officiants.
__________________
YouTube: HAMSkoolie WEB: HAMSkoolie.com
We've done so much, for so long, with so little, we now do the impossible, overnight, with nothing. US Marines -- 6531, 3521. . . .Ret ASE brakes & elect. Ret (auto and aviation mech). Extra Class HAM, NAUI/PADI OpenWater diver
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10-05-2021, 07:33 AM
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#86
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pensacola and Crystal River, FL
Posts: 647
Year: 1998
Coachwork: AmTran International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar 7.6L
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You can try all that while thumping your chest with your fist too.
I am sure demanding all that will immediately result in the authorities apologizing and leaving you to do whatever you want on your property forever more.
Without any further expense on your part.
And the county, city, state will continue to monitor from overhead for no reason or benefit.
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10-05-2021, 07:49 AM
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#87
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pensacola and Crystal River, FL
Posts: 647
Year: 1998
Coachwork: AmTran International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar 7.6L
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Sad but true, some areas require all vehicles built to be street legal to be operational AND registered/licensed and thus insured if the state requires insurance in order to license. All just another word for permit. The thought being to prevent a property becoming an unregulated junkyard.
Jacksonville, FL city leaders wanted to make it illegal to park in your driveway facing the street. Because the police wanted to be able to cruise the streets scanning license plates. (Florida only issues one plate)
For those not knowing, police cars can be outfitted with cameras that will read your plate, then the technology runs the plate for wants and warrants. All that while just driving down the street at the speed limit. Officer does not have to enter the plate numbers or call them in to find out.
Coming to your hood in the future no doubt.
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10-05-2021, 08:59 AM
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#88
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,558
Coachwork: Integrated Coach Corp.
Chassis: RE-300 42ft
Engine: 466ci
Rated Cap: 90
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The Building & Planning Dept. is full of very helpful folks. Many of us on this site work with them daily or weekly.
Licensed tradesman or the homesteaded property owner? No worries. Pay taxes, follow their instructions.
Why carry w/o a permit? That's not security. Secure is also in knowing. A feeling. I'm safe with what I have here. Not simple possession. Permitted and Used as Intended. Permit first, then possess the item.
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10-05-2021, 11:06 AM
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#89
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleO7
For those not knowing, police cars can be outfitted with cameras that will read your plate, then the technology runs the plate for wants and warrants. All that while just driving down the street at the speed limit. Officer does not have to enter the plate numbers or call them in to find out.
Coming to your hood in the future no doubt.
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Automated license plate reader (ALPR) technology, geotagged photos up to 2,000 plates a minute per unit, often also using facial recognition, also tagging make, model, and color of the vehicle
Already deployed all over the country, PDs the least of it, ubiquitous at malls, airports, train stations etc obviously toll roads, mounted on tow truck operators, repo companies, also utility poles, streetlights, overpasses, within traffic cones and digital speed display signs that show drivers how fast they’re going.
Anyone can implement using commercial or FOSS, almost every shopping mall uses it to get marketing / demographic data on visitors, google OpenALPR.
Literally billions of scans per month, automatically consolidated by private compaies like 3M, Palantir, Unisys, Perceptics and Vigilant Solutions and then shared realtime among over 400 agencies, e. g. FBI, DEA, CPB/ICE, also available for sale to anyone with money of course.
Just like your phone's location tracking data, but works without any device in the vehicle.
In fact for people of interest, I bet the TLAs get alerted specifically if they do travel without without any geolocation tracking device active, very suspiciously unusual activity these days.
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10-05-2021, 01:13 PM
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#90
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2006
Location: mid Mo.
Posts: 869
Year: 1976
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: F33695
Engine: 427 chevy converted to 466
Rated Cap: 84
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There is plenty of cheap land in the Ozarks in the middle of no-where and they aren't that strict yet. But better watch out for your fourteen year old daughter tho, she might get married before she's out of high school.
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10-05-2021, 01:54 PM
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#91
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pensacola and Crystal River, FL
Posts: 647
Year: 1998
Coachwork: AmTran International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar 7.6L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMac
The Building & Planning Dept. is full of very helpful folks. Many of us on this site work with them daily or weekly.
Licensed tradesman or the homesteaded property owner? No worries. Pay taxes, follow their instructions.
Why carry w/o a permit? That's not security. Secure is also in knowing. A feeling. I'm safe with what I have here. Not simple possession. Permitted and Used as Intended. Permit first, then possess the item.
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What?
Are you talking about land use?
And then talking about carrying a gun on your person?
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10-05-2021, 03:54 PM
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#92
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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Advocating for abiding by the regs rather than making a federal "Freedumb!!" case out of refusing to.
Wake up sheeple, etc
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10-09-2021, 01:13 AM
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#93
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,607
Year: 1996
Coachwork: AmTran (Now Navistar)
Engine: DT444E (7.3L) International
Rated Cap: 31,800 pounds
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Our history is full of instances where the "regs" were the law and were wrong. Blindly following regs just because they are written isn't necessarily a good thing. Stop and Frisk was the reg in NYC, it was immoral and illegal and it didn't end until someone made a federal case out of it.
There are MANY instances in our history where it took someone standing up and making a federal case out of something before the wrongs were corrected.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
No expiration date listed......JUST SAYIN
__________________
YouTube: HAMSkoolie WEB: HAMSkoolie.com
We've done so much, for so long, with so little, we now do the impossible, overnight, with nothing. US Marines -- 6531, 3521. . . .Ret ASE brakes & elect. Ret (auto and aviation mech). Extra Class HAM, NAUI/PADI OpenWater diver
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10-09-2021, 01:59 AM
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#94
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Golden Valley AZ
Posts: 1,036
Year: 1993
Chassis: ThomasBuilt 30'
Engine: need someone to tell me
Rated Cap: me + 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamSkoolie
Our history is full of instances where the "regs" were the law and were wrong. Blindly following regs just because they are written isn't necessarily a good thing. Stop and Frisk was the reg in NYC, it was immoral and illegal and it didn't end until someone made a federal case out of it.
There are MANY instances in our history where it took someone standing up and making a federal case out of something before the wrongs were corrected.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
No expiration date listed......JUST SAYIN
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I agree with the first paragraph, but the oath part...
"officers appointed over me" is pretty ambiguous - appointed by who? and by virtue of what authority?
Does the UCMJ have a reg/rule/law about obeying illegal orders? how about when an officer is believed to be insane/mad/rogue/traitor or just "not fit for duty"?
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10-09-2021, 02:22 AM
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#95
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Bly Oregon
Posts: 535
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Supercoach
Engine: Cummins 350 big cam
Rated Cap: 86 passengers?
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I recognize the oath. When I enlisted into the USAF in 1972 I took an oath like that. This version of the oath applies to the military. When you file to run for public office at the board of elections you swear to a different but similar oath. I have sworn to both versions an neither has an expiration date. If you win the election or are appointed to office you swear to the oath again when you take office
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10-09-2021, 03:00 AM
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#96
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Golden Valley AZ
Posts: 1,036
Year: 1993
Chassis: ThomasBuilt 30'
Engine: need someone to tell me
Rated Cap: me + 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flattracker
I recognize the oath. When I enlisted into the USAF in 1972 I took an oath like that. This version of the oath applies to the military. When you file to run for public office at the board of elections you swear to a different but similar oath. I have sworn to both versions an neither has an expiration date. If you win the election or are appointed to office you swear to the oath again when you take office
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamSkoolie
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
No expiration date listed......JUST SAYIN
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There are millions of people that swore this oath
You will note that the first part says it all:
"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;"
The second part about the President and officers is added with some giant loopholes provided by the UCMJ and you are not absolutely required to obey the whim of some lunatic.
My point is that you swore to protect and bear true faith and allegiance the "Constitution of the United State" not the officers or the President, and there are loopholes provided by the UCMJ (court run by officers) for reasonably disobeying orders. At what point does an officer/President become a domestic threat or operating contrary to the Constitution of the United States. To me this seems that you are required to follow common sense and realize when it is appropriate to disobey orders. You do know that you are going to blamed for any illegal activity, regardless of whether you were following orders.
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10-09-2021, 07:23 AM
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#97
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Florida
Posts: 19
Coachwork: IC / Navistar
Chassis: Flatnose RE
Engine: 7.6L International
Rated Cap: 17 Tons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMac
On an Agricultural Forum, you may find more folks with experience. Requires more hard work, than money.
Purchace A-1 zoned land in an Agricultural community, say 10-40 acres, remove hundreds of trees, carve a driveway, fence the perimeter, add well and electric for the livestock & crops, legally convert a portion of the existing barn to a residence, consult the County's Ag Externsion and Bldg & Planning Dept.
Permitted property upgrades on agriculturally zoned land may be completed by the owner/operator of an established farm. Pay the taxes for permits/inspections, do what the county engineer says, and thank her (or him).
Protecting your herd/crops overnight is legal, everywhere. Not in an Are Vee. Farm equiptment. No more traveling, tend animals & crops. Camp out, hunt predators, night birth a horse, stare at the stars. Private camping everywhere - park in the barn, by the tractor, in the fields, or with the livestock. Saul Goodman.
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Damn. That's alot of labor. Most people can't afford to hire out well digging, logging, electric and tractors etc...
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10-09-2021, 07:51 AM
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#98
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,558
Coachwork: Integrated Coach Corp.
Chassis: RE-300 42ft
Engine: 466ci
Rated Cap: 90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -TC-
Damn. That's alot of labor. Most people can't afford to hire out well digging, logging, electric and tractors etc...
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Interesting, TC. I suppose we are most people, since we do not hire labor, either. Infrastructure begins with a shovel. We live among a community where we can barter sweat for sweat. Neighbors, friends, and family have been a blessing. Especially, each of my neighbors.
(Our Family of Diggers)
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10-13-2021, 06:49 AM
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#99
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,758
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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a couple I recently met is going through this scenerio right now.. and it turns out there was an easy solution.. IN THEIR CASE.
1. their land permits "manufactured homes" (but not full timing in RVs).. so they bought a used single wide.. had it brought in.. masked it up and put a nice coat of paint on it and a new skirt.. so it looks fresh... the thing really is a POS as its kind of old and worn out... (there was a 6 month time frame where RV living was permitted while at least a shell of a residence would be set up.. ). an additional 6 months was granted if they could show that a closed shell (windows roof permanent siding) was constructed.
2. electric was a requirement so they had a power drop brought in.. wasnt too expensive as the power company subsidized new installs.
3. there is a 2 year grace on well / septic so they have 2 years to install such..
the couple does plan to build a residence (or sell if they find somewhere else to live).. but are planning on travelling in their RV for a year.. (they bought a nice nearly new bank repo).. they have a bus but its a classic with seats..
the big thing they did was RESEARCH... they did lots of reading, lots of travelling, lots of phone calls.. a lot of what is needed is in the local libraries of counties / toewns where you are looking for land.. these are COMMON questions.. and they found that city hall / county seats in many places were ready with answers.. many times they were sent to web links or even given informational sheets on what to do..
one of the common themes they found behind alot of the regulations is to prevent illegal activity.. ie meth labs, human trafficking, theft rings, etc.. in recent years rural areas had become havens for criminals to conduct organized activity under the radar.. rent / buy a piece of land under an alias / park an RV and make meth or moonshine, etc.. so making people lay down more legit roots, register more, go through more checks discourages that..
they really dont care about anyone who wants to off-grid, be anti-government etc.. they also of course want the tax revenue from a permanent resident paying property taxes and improving values in general..
Tall fences and big guns are going to attract authorities not deter them.. you know that camera in space can see really good on a clear winter night..
I guess the point im trying to make is dont try to skirt the law in this case.. sometimes skirting the law is the best way.. but when it comes to city halls and nearby towns and flying under the residence-radar, you will do nothing but set off alarm bells that you are somehow dpoing something illicit..
NOW That said.. if you are locating near a place where people know you and you are a part of the community already, that goes a LONG way toward leniency and keeping the "big cameras" turned the other direction..
that wild-wild-west mentality mentioned earlier.. become part of the community first. move in later..
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10-13-2021, 09:50 AM
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#100
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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Yes, but all that is very far from the
"find a place to park my X and live in it"
goal.
Building a S&B home with electric, well & septic, of course is of course the usual requirement
but an off grid mobile rig does not in fact require any of that
and for many it is too expensive a price to pay for the privilege.
One answer is "tough cookies, that's the way it is, can only be done that way"
but in fact there are places where the regulations aren't being enforced, you just need to do the research and find it yourself.
But you need to keep it discreet, a given jurisdiction doesn't want to be overrun by such people.
If it gets posted on the internet then too many show up, they have to start enforcing their regs and now you have to move!
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