Not exactly a Skoolie

Blk04Snake · 02-22-2018, 04:04 PM

I’m dong someting a little different. Just picked up a 2007 IC CE200 66 passenger for $3900. I’m probably the only person here that is not going to convert the bus. It is staying as-is other than disabling the warning lights/stop arms and changing the color to grey, black rub rails, white roof. I was able to register it as a personal commercial vehicle, not for hire, and still have 44 adult capacity. Going to be mainly using it for functions for a club I belong to so it’s only close friends/family that will ever ride it.

Gatorbait · 02-22-2018, 04:09 PM

grey on black on white is the best!

Blk04Snake · 02-22-2018, 04:44 PM

I’m going to start with vinyl wrap for the grey and see how it goes instead of paint. Considerable cost savings and the new air release stuff goes on pretty easy. Only thing I think I will actually paint is the rub rails and possibly the upper end caps.

ShagNasty · 02-22-2018, 05:08 PM

I'm fairly sure that if there is seating capacity greater than 15 a CDL is still required regardless if commercial for personal use, not for hire.

Dan

Robin97396 · 02-22-2018, 06:44 PM

Depends on the state, but I've never heard of being allowed more than 16 seats, otherwise it's technically a bus. And technically it is a bus. We're trying to get around that fact so you've got to be within regs or risk getting busted.

My bus is titled as a van. It doesn't matter what the DMV wants to call it. It's a big dang conversion van. This only had three seats in it to start with, not including the drivers seat. It technically didn't qualify as a bus, so the made it a van.

Blk04Snake · 02-23-2018, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShagNasty

I'm fairly sure that if there is seating capacity greater than 15 a CDL is still required regardless if commercial for personal use, not for hire.

Dan

Got that covered. I've had my class B CDL for years, took permit test for passenger endorsement last Friday. Close friend drives school bus so he's my "trainer" so just need to take a new road test in it and I'm all set. And yes, it's registered as a bus. Plates even say "BUS" in little letters on the bottom.

cowlitzcoach · 02-23-2018, 02:00 AM

I don't want to rain on your parade but I don't think you have thought the process through completely.

In addition to being required to have a CDL to drive that bus, as a private operator you will need to get a USDOT # and comply with all of the rules and regulations that apply to operating a bus. Even if you are a non-profit like a church you will still need, at a minimum, to keep driver files on anyone who drives your bus (including a employment application for you with a completed pre-employment drug test), proof of a "company" drug policy that includes random drug testing done on a quarterly basis, vehicle logs, maintenance logs, proof of annual vehicle DOT inspections, Daily Vehicle Inspection Reports for the last six months, and since your bus is 2004 and newer you will have to determine whether or not you will be required to install an electronic logging device. Here in WA state you would not even be allowed to license the bus without first proving you have a valid and current USDOT # or prove you are exempt and don't need a USDOT #. There are very few exemptions when it comes to buses.

Even if you are not operating your bus for hire you will most certainly need to have some sort of commercial bus insurance that covers passengers. That is not going to be cheap. And not-for-hire means you can't legally pass the hat or expect anyone to kick in for the cost of fuel.

By the way, if you should show up with a loaded bus at any sort of venue where there are for-hire charter buses you can bet within a week you will be contacted by a weight cop who will be asking you to set up a time for a compliance review.

The fines for non-compliance start at about $10K per infraction.

Again, I don't want to rain on your parade but going into the bus business is not for the faint of heart or shallow pockets.

Jdawgsfanasty · 02-23-2018, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

I don't want to rain on your parade but I don't think you have thought the process through completely.

In addition to being required to have a CDL to drive that bus, as a private operator you will need to get a USDOT # and comply with all of the rules and regulations that apply to operating a bus. Even if you are a non-profit like a church you will still need, at a minimum, to keep driver files on anyone who drives your bus (including a employment application for you with a completed pre-employment drug test), proof of a "company" drug policy that includes random drug testing done on a quarterly basis, vehicle logs, maintenance logs, proof of annual vehicle DOT inspections, Daily Vehicle Inspection Reports for the last six months, and since your bus is 2004 and newer you will have to determine whether or not you will be required to install an electronic logging device. Here in WA state you would not even be allowed to license the bus without first proving you have a valid and current USDOT # or prove you are exempt and don't need a USDOT #. There are very few exemptions when it comes to buses.

Even if you are not operating your bus for hire you will most certainly need to have some sort of commercial bus insurance that covers passengers. That is not going to be cheap. And not-for-hire means you can't legally pass the hat or expect anyone to kick in for the cost of fuel.

By the way, if you should show up with a loaded bus at any sort of venue where there are for-hire charter buses you can bet within a week you will be contacted by a weight cop who will be asking you to set up a time for a compliance review.

The fines for non-compliance start at about $10K per infraction.

Again, I don't want to rain on your parade but going into the bus business is not for the faint of heart or shallow pockets.

Fair warning...glad I'm not interested in the charter business

Sent from my VS500PP using Tapatalk

cowlitzcoach · 02-23-2018, 12:42 PM

FYI, the church where I worship owns three buses that require a CDL to drive them. We have a USDOT # and we are subject to compliance reviews so we have a filing cabinet full of paperwork to comply with all USDOT requirements.

Here in WA state there is no difference in the licensing requirement between a commercial for-hire-bus and a private not-for-hire bus. The title, registration, and license plate are identical for both for-hire and not-for-hire buses. The only real difference is if you opt for a pro rated plate because you are operating the bus for-hire across state lines.

The state in which you live may have different requirements in regards to commercial for-hire and non-commercial private not-for-hire buses. You need to find out what those requirements are before you ever transport passengers anywhere.

I would hate for you to get on the wrong side of a paper pushing government drone.

I have come to the conclusion their sole purpose is revenue generation to provide a revenue stream to support their paper pushing. If by some weird happenstance it might increase safety on the road it is a total non-intended consequence.

Blk04Snake · 02-23-2018, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

FYI, the church where I worship owns three buses that require a CDL to drive them. We have a USDOT # and we are subject to compliance reviews so we have a filing cabinet full of paperwork to comply with all USDOT requirements.

Here in WA state there is no difference in the licensing requirement between a commercial for-hire-bus and a private not-for-hire bus. The title, registration, and license plate are identical for both for-hire and not-for-hire buses. The only real difference is if you opt for a pro rated plate because you are operating the bus for-hire across state lines.

The state in which you live may have different requirements in regards to commercial for-hire and non-commercial private not-for-hire buses. You need to find out what those requirements are before you ever transport passengers anywhere.

I would hate for you to get on the wrong side of a paper pushing government drone.

I have come to the conclusion their sole purpose is revenue generation to provide a revenue stream to support their paper pushing. If by some weird happenstance it might increase safety on the road it is a total non-intended consequence.

You are so right. They are all trying to justify their jobs. NYS has ‘Vehicle and Traffic Law’, NYSDOT regulations and the DMV regulations. None of the 3 match. The USDOT site as the way I understand their language does not appear to mandate that I get a number because I’m not in commerce and will not be crossing state lines. NY the language is much less clear and as I said above the 3 entities all have their own language so I will be doing some calling.

cowlitzcoach · 02-23-2018, 06:40 PM

I just checked the NY state rules.

According to 17NYVRR Part 820. section 820.1 c, 3 a commercial vehicle is defined as any self-propelled motor vehicle that is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport for compensation.

Also according to 17NYVRR Part 820. section 820.3 b,1 NY adopts 49 CFR (code of federal regulations) 391 a driver will be required to have a CDL to drive any vehicle that is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver

https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/ope...rt%20820_0.pdf

Blk04Snake · 02-23-2018, 07:09 PM

Yup. I’ve read that one, then there’s 19-a, DMVs rules, V&T section 375, and a whole bunch more. And nothing really matches up.

I know I need a CDL with P (or S which includes P) endorsement to drive it. And would need it irregardless because GVWR is 29800. I already have CDL B and took my permit test for P endorsement. Where it all becomes cloudy is the USDOT numbers, whether it needs operating authority from the state, is it subject to NY highway use tax, does it need to be inspected by DOT every 6 months or is NYS heavy vehicle inspection sufficient? On NYSDOT site it looks like since it is not used for commerce then it falls under standard heavy inspection.

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