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Old 09-03-2022, 02:47 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 10
Old bus question

I was just given a 1965 chevy bus by my wife's grandmother. The inside has already been converted but could use a remodel. The bus has the widow maker wells on it, so my first move is to change that. I have a 1991 Gmc kodiak truck that I was thinking of using drive train for the bus. Would this be worth it, or even possible.

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Old 09-03-2022, 04:12 AM   #2
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,769
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
firestone rh-5

I doubt you have firestone rh-5 rims. Those are the widowmakers.

It is likely you have two or three piece rims in a 20" diameter.

With correct methods - watch you tube -- you are reasonably safe working with multi piece rims.

I have seen about a dozen different kinds of "split rims" Using a cage to inflate and making very very certain the rim is assembled correctly before adding more than a pound of air pressure.... a cage, chains, some method of restraint during inflation. watch the you tube videos......

My 1954 ford/wayne still has the firestone rh-5 rims in the back... never to be filled with air again......

yes engine, transmission, axles, springs can be swapped.

william
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Old 09-03-2022, 11:30 AM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Thanks

I'm not 100% sure what wheels are on it, was just told that, and having this other truck for a parts truck thought I would use all I could
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Old 09-03-2022, 11:38 AM   #4
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Year: 1974
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Chassis: "Atomic"
Engine: DD 8V71
Like William said...you most likely don't have "widow maker" wheels, which are split rim wheels. You probably have split ring wheels which are a whole different thing...but so many people confuse and conflate the two styles. Lots of tire shops, especially smaller off-chain shops, still work on split ring wheels and they're not nearly as hazardous as split rims.
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Old 09-05-2022, 10:32 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
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I looked at them today it's stamped 20 x 6. Rh5, would post a picture if I can figure out how, .
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Old 09-06-2022, 12:01 AM   #6
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,769
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
rh5 --- wow

okay ... I am not a fan of these wheels at all..... The first thing I did when I got my 1954 home.... I bought 6 wheels and replaced them......

so what bolt pattern do you have of wheel studs?

I will look around to see what is around here for replacements.....

19.5" 20" and 22.5" are going to be the likely candidates for tire/wheel replacement. the 20" is the most expensive.

yours is the newest truck I have seen 1965 with the firestone rh5 rims...

william
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Old 09-06-2022, 04:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtie348 View Post
I looked at them today it's stamped 20 x 6. Rh5, would post a picture if I can figure out how, .
Once you get to 5 posts, you'll be able to post pics here (by clicking the paper clip button up top).
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Old 09-06-2022, 09:10 AM   #8
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Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
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interesting if its a 5,6 or a 10 bolt pattern.. seems a lot of these are 6 bolt which makes it harder to find rims..



a lot depends on the weight of your bus and how tall tires you want. 20" rims you still likely end up with harder-to-find tube-type tire sizes.. 19.5 works if your weight rating isnt too high and you want a lower profile tire (225/70R19.5 and 245/70R19.5 are the most common sizes.. giving you a 32-34" tire height depending on brand)..


there are also 22.5" rims made to fit a 6 bolt hub which give you a much taller tire if you want it (and more weright capacity)... without knowing anything about the bus its hard to say what you might likely want / need.
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Old 09-06-2022, 10:36 AM   #9
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Year: 1976
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Chassis: F33695
Engine: 427 chevy converted to 466
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I would try and explore the possibilities of a complete frame swap to enjoy the newer power train and suspension. The older vehicles have the radiator further back than the newer models (much larger and further forward on later model) so some extending or being creative on the front sheetmetal will be needed. Hopefully wheel base is close to being the same or frame work and driveshaft work will be needed but well worth the effort in my eyes. You will get rid of those old wheels and use the better radials too. Everything will depend on you getting the front wheels centered in the front fender openings, the rest follows that lead. Then it will be firewall clearance, steering column placement, brake system, shifter, etc. It sound daunting but just put one foot in front of the other and it will get done. Sharpen that pencil your gonna need it.
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Old 09-06-2022, 03:49 PM   #10
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Thanks, for all the help and information.
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Old 09-06-2022, 03:53 PM   #11
Mini-Skoolie
 
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It has a 1958 348 in it right now, but I have the 366 out of the other truck to put in after I check it out.
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Old 09-06-2022, 03:55 PM   #12
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 287
Year: 1996
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT 466 Mech. Spicer 5 speed
Rated Cap: 34
Ahhhh-- the classic "W" engine....
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Old 09-06-2022, 04:03 PM   #13
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Yes not many of the old w blocks still around.
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Old 09-07-2022, 10:01 AM   #14
Skoolie
 
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Year: 1992
Coachwork: Collins
Chassis: NB18FD Oshkosh
Engine: 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 18,500
On the later chassis. You might get lucky and find the rear axle might work. But I bet it won't. Measure the frame width of both chassis. I bet you find the later chassis has a wider frame spacing. If it does swapping the parts over becomes a nightmare.

Swapping the body over to the later chassis might be easier in the long run. There you're only dealing with making body mount pedestals/ steering connections.

The Kodeuck you can still get chassis parts for. Finding them for the older chassis might be hard or force you to use custom rebuild companies to rebuild parts.
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Old 09-07-2022, 06:56 PM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
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It's got 10 bolt pattern on the back but just 5 on the front.
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Old 09-07-2022, 06:58 PM   #16
Mini-Skoolie
 
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As far as a chassis swap , the other is about 42 " shorter on the wheelbase. That might get into a bigger project than I want to start at this time.
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Old 09-07-2022, 11:20 PM   #17
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
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Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
34" frame width

after world war two, medium duty and heavy duty frame width is standardized at 34".

my 1954 ford/wayne is 34" and my 2005 f450 chassis is 34"

the differences happen up where the fenders, radiator, and cab was located, that stuff all swoops and curves and they are all different. International, white, REO, diamond t, ford chevy dodge, studebaker, all the front sections are all over the place. pretty common to mount the at the front pulley area of the engine and then again at the bell housing and sometimes at the rear of the transmission.

I had to shorten the wheel base 22" i did that at the swoopy part under the cab. I did not touch the frame area at the 34" wide part. the rear of the frame was not long enough.. so I bought the rear part of another f450/f550 and welded that onto the rear to extend the frame to the length I needed for the rear of the bus... about four feet. I am within 1 millimeter of original wheel base "being square" I spent a lot time making sure my reference points were correct before and after shortening the frame between the wheels. all kinds of fabrication work was needed for the forward part of the frame to the old bus body parts.... when I got to the 34" part? just exactly the same as the old 1954 frame for mounting.

Buses are not bolted to the frames, they are clamped to the frames. My 1954 is clamped to the frame with little leaf springs. and my 1994 bluebird is clamped to the frame with these little fingers... but still, both are clamped to the frame not bolted. I saw a 1946 ford wayne and the body was clamped the same way as mine, these little leaf springs.

william
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Old 09-08-2022, 09:08 AM   #18
Mini-Skoolie
 
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I have alot more measuring to do before I tear into it. I was originally just change engines and use it for my hunting rig, but then the wheels put a catch in my get a long.
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Old 09-08-2022, 10:43 AM   #19
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Year: 1935
Coachwork: Superior
Chassis: Chevy
Engine: 317 ci/tid / Isuzu
Some bus bodies are bolted to the frame as is my 1935 Superior. The original frame width was 34" with bolt on outriggers to carry the school bus body.
Jack

.

.

.
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Old 09-08-2022, 11:25 AM   #20
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,769
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
Ol Trunt

That is another thing I heard for the first time today. I wonder if superior ever did a clamp on body.

HEY Cadillac, is your superior body, bolted to the frame?

William
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