Periwinkle the Bus

[Michelle1956]

Say hello to Periwinkle the Bus!*

Perri is a 2002 Am Tran diesel, 28' with front and rear A/C & heat.* Series 60 Detroit engine with an Allison transmission. Speedo just turned over 89k miles on my 300 mile drive home from Virginia.

Only eight seats with wheelchair tie downs, a functioning handicap lift, plus a rear door. Air brakes, air operated driver's seat, and air operated front doors. She's very clean and is now registered as an RV.*

I love my bus so much!*

[CoffeeGuy]

Sounds like an awesome bus find! We're just starting our build, too, with a 33' Blue Bird, and our friends have a 30' that sounds much like yours.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Nice lookin' bus but I don't think Am Tran ever installed the Series 60 Detroit in any school bus - because that's a Class 8 tractor-trailer type engine. Now full size motorcoaches (think Greyhound type bus) had 'em. It's much more likely an IH DT466 engine (*NOT* the same thing!) if I remember from your other thread.

[Michelle1956]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

Nice lookin' bus but I don't think Am Tran ever installed the Series 60 Detroit in any school bus - because that's a Class 8 tractor-trailer type engine. Now full size motorcoaches (think Greyhound type bus) had 'em. It's much more likely an IH DT466 engine (*NOT* the same thing!) if I remember from your other thread.

Hi, Brad -

So the engine you mentioned are the most common in the 2002 Am Tran? Interesting. I'm wondering why my mechanic friend told me that?

Gotta say it though - whatever engine is sitting inside that big compartment next to me, it sounds and runs so smooooooth.

Any specific issues I should watch for?

[Brad_SwiftFur]

A lot of "mechanics" believe the "DT" in the DT466 designation means "DeTroit". It's not. Detroit Diesel was, for many, many years, a GM brand (it may still be?) but some companies, understandably, were very reluctant to install a GM branded engine in, say, a Peterbilt truck. So Detroit Diesel was formed as a way to separate the engines from the GM branding, though it remained a GM owned company for the longest time.


The DT466 is an IH product first produced in 1971. Over the years it evolved and advanced, widely used in agricultural equipment, school buses, box trucks, utility trucks and all sorts of other medium duty applications. There were other variants of this engine such as the DT408 and DT530 and it was available with several horsepower ratings. Around 2004, due to new emissions laws coming into effect at that time, the DT series engines were "updated" to meet these new standards, becoming the MaxxForce series around 2007. The MaxxForce engines, specifically the emissions hardware, proved to be nightmares and production was discontinued around late 2015.


Prior to this, the DT series engines were pretty good, with wide parts and service availability, many shops and mechanics are familiar with them. I forget the specifics of it but some from the 2000-2002-ish era had timing cover issues (someone more knowledgeable than I am can elaborate on this?). They do *NOT* like to *EVER* be overheated, as this can cause piston liner seal failure, resulting in coolant in the oil (and vice versa), at which time you're basically looking at an "in-frame" engine rebuild. Basically, if I see coolant temps rising above the 220-ish mark (and even that's a little high for my liking), and the fan isn't kicking in and moving a *LOT* of air (and believe me, you *WILL* know when this happens!), it's time to pull off and let it cool down ... and find out why it's running hot. The DT's have a few other things that can happen, like any other engine, but are generally considered reliable runners and on this forum at least are considered excellent engines for skoolies.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Also, just an FYI, just because the odometer shows 89K miles, be aware those are fairly commonly replaced because the instruments will stop working, or work erratically. The circuit boards IH used often develop hairline cracks in the solder joints (and this can be fixed) but most shops don't bother and simply replace the whole thing. The engine computer will reflect the actual mileage (unless it too has been changed, but this is much less common.)

[Native]

Hey Michelle,


That Periwinkle Blue will look great! Nice and bright, but not too bold. You mentioned i the other thread you were planning the blue on the bottom, then white from the bottom of the windows up to the roof. I hope you are going to continue with the white for the roof as well. It will help reflect sunlight annd keep the inside a litte cooler.

[Michelle1956]

Originally Posted by Native

Hey Michelle,


That Periwinkle Blue will look great! Nice and bright, but not too bold. You mentioned i the other thread you were planning the blue on the bottom, then white from the bottom of the windows up to the roof. I hope you are going to continue with the white for the roof as well. It will help reflect sunlight annd keep the inside a litte cooler.

The roof will be coated with Henry's Tropicool so, yes, it will be white. That was actually supposed to be done last week but the guy who was doing it for me got a job 100 miles away. Nice for him but not so nice for me. ☹

[Bon Voyage]

Originally Posted by Michelle1956

The roof will be coated with Henry's Tropicool so, yes, it will be white. That was actually supposed to be done last week but the guy who was doing it for me got a job 100 miles away. Nice for him but not so nice for me. ☹

Don’t use Henry’s Tropicool. It’s on my bus roof and it holds dirt like nothing else. The roof always looks dirty and has to be washed with a cloth to get clean - spray wand won’t do well unless you get right up to it. It was a mistake for my bus and I wish I just used regular white paint up there.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Bon Voyage

Don’t use Henry’s Tropicool. It’s on my bus roof and it holds dirt like nothing else. The roof always looks dirty and has to be washed with a cloth to get clean - spray wand won’t do well unless you get right up to it. It was a mistake for my bus and I wish I just used regular white paint up there.

My own roof is ordinary white paint but the back end of my bus recently got covered with lanternfly poop so that it looked really dirty. I had it out in direct sunlight and measured the temperature of the roof inside; the part that was dirty was about 10-15 degrees hotter than the clean part.

Since Henry's tends to get so dirty so quickly, I wonder to what extent that dirtiness compromises its own ability to reflect sunlight - when it's not proven that it reflects sunlight any better than ordinary white paint in the first place.

[oleman]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

A lot of "mechanics" believe the "DT" in the DT466 designation means "DeTroit". It's not. Detroit Diesel was, for many, many years, a GM brand (it may still be?) but some companies, understandably, were very reluctant to install a GM branded engine in, say, a Peterbilt truck. So Detroit Diesel was formed as a way to separate the engines from the GM branding, though it remained a GM owned company for the longest time.


The DT466 is an IH product first produced in 1971. Over the years it evolved and advanced, widely used in agricultural equipment, school buses, box trucks, utility trucks and all sorts of other medium duty applications. There were other variants of this engine such as the DT408 and DT530 and it was available with several horsepower ratings. Around 2004, due to new emissions laws coming into effect at that time, the DT series engines were "updated" to meet these new standards, becoming the MaxxForce series around 2007. The MaxxForce engines, specifically the emissions hardware, proved to be nightmares and production was discontinued around late 2015.


Prior to this, the DT series engines were pretty good, with wide parts and service availability, many shops and mechanics are familiar with them. I forget the specifics of it but some from the 2000-2002-ish era had timing cover issues (someone more knowledgeable than I am can elaborate on this?). They do *NOT* like to *EVER* be overheated, as this can cause piston liner seal failure, resulting in coolant in the oil (and vice versa), at which time you're basically looking at an "in-frame" engine rebuild. Basically, if I see coolant temps rising above the 220-ish mark (and even that's a little high for my liking), and the fan isn't kicking in and moving a *LOT* of air (and believe me, you *WILL* know when this happens!), it's time to pull off and let it cool down ... and find out why it's running hot. The DT's have a few other things that can happen, like any other engine, but are generally considered reliable runners and on this forum at least are considered excellent engines for skoolies.

There is a big connection between Detroit Diesel and International/Navistar in that prior to Detroit being sold off to Daimler. Detroit was re-badging the DT466 as a Detroit 40 series that was used in school buses, therefor the bus could be a rebadged Detroit Diesel and marked as a DD 40 Series. Another Detroit I have seen in transit buses is the 50 series it is basically a 4 cylinder version of the 60. Don't believe they were ever in school busies because of cost constraints in the lower bus market.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Originally Posted by oleman

There is a big connection between Detroit Diesel and International/Navistar in that prior to Detroit being sold off to Daimler. Detroit was re-badging the DT466 as a Detroit 40 series that was used in school buses, therefor the bus could be a rebadged Detroit Diesel and marked as a DD 40 Series. Another Detroit I have seen in transit buses is the 50 series it is basically a 4 cylinder version of the 60. Don't believe they were ever in school busies because of cost constraints in the lower bus market.

To be truthful, I was doubtful about this so I googled it. It seems, in fact, the DD Series 40 was indeed a "badge engineered" (rebadged) DT466, so I stand corrected. I suppose this was done to provide engines to bus builders that did not have contracts with (or competed against) IH, selling them under the Detroit Diesel brand.


The Detroit Series 60 came in either 11.1 L, 12.7 L or 14 L versions in horsepower ratings from 400-665, which is way overkill for a school bus. In any event, sounds like you got one of the better engines and I'm betting it'll cruise highway speeds comfortably.

[Michelle1956]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

To be truthful, I was doubtful about this so I googled it. It seems, in fact, the DD Series 40 was indeed a "badge engineered" (rebadged) DT466, so I stand corrected. I suppose this was done to provide engines to bus builders that did not have contracts with (or competed against) IH, selling them under the Detroit Diesel brand.


The Detroit Series 60 came in either 11.1 L, 12.7 L or 14 L versions in horsepower ratings from 400-665, which is way overkill for a school bus. In any event, sounds like you got one of the better engines and I'm betting it'll cruise highway speeds comfortably.

I drove Periwinkle home - 330 miles from Virginia to mid-state New York- and definitely thought she cruised along quite comfortably. She does have a governor on her so I didn't go over 55 mph. The guy I bought her from said there was a guy in his town who could "fix" that for me but I said no thank you. Everyone I know says their mpg drops considerably when they go faster plus I'm comfortable with 55 for now.

[joeblack5]

I am all for 55 with 20+ ton vehicle

[Michelle1956]

Originally Posted by joeblack5

I am all for 55 with 20+ ton vehicle

Perri's registration and title says 26,100 lbs. or 13 tons & change. No matter how I build her out, I don't think I'll add another 14,000 lbs. Yikes!!

[Bon Voyage]

That’s probably the max weight. My 40 foot RE conversion 80% done is 13.6 tons or 27,200 lbs. 33,000 max or 16.5 tons max

[joeblack5]

You are right, my mistake..in Europe a ton is a 1000kg. About 2000 lbs. Not sure why the us uses a ton for 2000 but alas stranger things have happened..
Johan

[Native]

Originally Posted by joeblack5

You are right, my mistake..in Europe a ton is a 1000kg. About 2000 lbs. Not sure why the us uses a ton for 2000 but alas stranger things have happened..
Johan

Perhaps it is so that an imperial ton (here in the US and the UK) and a metric ton are close to the same ... 2000 pounds verses 2200 pounds.

[joeblack5]

Yeah that is the funny part... Similar with a yard and a meter.. It is interesting that in the USA the car world is metric.. The medical world is metric but somehow they can't convince the carpenters and plumbers. You can have 15/16" or even 9/32 but if it has to be accurate then we suddenly can go to logic metric style 0.001".
Johan

[cadillackid]

I cruise my DEV bus at 62 all day long and its happy. i do often take the non-freeway routes and then ill go 55-60 on average.. pushing it up to 65 and it feels like its sdtraining.. the engine fan runs a whole lot more and you slow down and speed up more on inclines and declines so it makes the traffic drivers mad behind you.. where just picking a nice speed works best