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02-06-2020, 08:19 AM
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#1
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New Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 4
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Picking a skoolie
My name is Mike and im from WV. I need some help from this amazing community in deciding which of 2 buses to buy! I am not very good with a 5 speed but can drive one, with that being said i am pretty nervous about driving a 5 speed bus. 1 of the busses is a 5 speed 1993 international DT 360 ward body, has some rusted floors and back door is rusted out at bottom, broken pane of glass on folding door, 2 leaky roof hatches, and old tires for $2500 (dont know what engine or trans,just know its diesel)...the 2nd bus is a 2004 international school bus with a T444E engine and allison 5 speed automatic (dont know which one) with 130k miles and no rust and new tires for $4,000! The extra money doesnt really matter especially with new tires...just want to make sure it doesnt have notorious problems (would feel much better with automatic)
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02-06-2020, 08:36 AM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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I'd go for the auto and new tires.
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02-06-2020, 09:00 AM
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#3
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New Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 4
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Do you have any info on that engine? Can you tell me best way to find out exactly what transmission is in it?
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02-06-2020, 09:17 AM
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#4
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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444 with 5 speed auto in 2004 would be an allison 2000.
The engine is THE basic bus engine. Nothing special, nothing bad. Unremarkable but reliable enough.
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02-06-2020, 09:24 AM
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#5
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Grayson County, VA
Posts: 1,428
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
444 with 5 speed auto in 2004 would be an allison 2000.
The engine is THE basic bus engine. Nothing special, nothing bad. Unremarkable but reliable enough.
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Even still, in an 11 window bus? Could be underpowered, no? I really don't know as we've got a different engine in our 11 window bus. I guess it depends on how you'll be using it. Just my .02
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02-06-2020, 09:42 AM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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The bus with the T444e and Allison 2000 and NO RUST would be an easy choice for me.
The DT360 and 5 speed manual would be great in a 5-6 window but may be a bit underpowered in a larger bus.
Stay away from the rusty buses.
Good luck.
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02-06-2020, 09:46 AM
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#7
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New Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 6
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Not a big fan of 444. It’s really just the ford power stroke pickup engine. Rather have the smaller dt 360. 5 speed ain’t any different than a four speed to drive. Hell of a lot cheaper to run that 360 manual! No computer, completely mechanical Don’t like either one! Keep looking
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02-06-2020, 09:56 AM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buskenny
Not a big fan of 444. It’s really just the ford power stroke pickup engine. Rather have the smaller dt 360. 5 speed ain’t any different than a four speed to drive. Hell of a lot cheaper to run that 360 manual! No computer, completely mechanical Don’t like either one! Keep looking
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:r I think that you may have it a bit backwards. Navistar built and sold a version of the T444e to Ford to put in their pickups. Ford branded it as the Powerstroke.
If the bus in question has a DT-466 I could get a little more excited but given the rust described I would run away from it regardless.
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02-06-2020, 10:16 AM
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#9
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New Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 6
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I know the power stroke is an international engine. Just saying it’s a pickup motor. You can’t jam a DT360 into a truck! It’s a real bulletproof compression ignition motor. Cheap driving. I don’t like either one!
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02-06-2020, 10:44 AM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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T444e is one of the most common medium duty truck and bus engines you will find in the US up until it's replacement with the VT365. It is a good reliable engine.
There is a gent on either oilburners or 4btswaps that did in fact swap a DT-360 (5.9) in a Ford pickup. It looked like a sweet setup. I am a fan of the DT-360 and would love to have one in a shorty. Especially if mated with a manual transmission.
Add the new tires, relatively low miles and little or no rust I would be giving the T444e bus some serious consideration.
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02-06-2020, 10:51 AM
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#11
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New Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve
The bus with the T444e and Allison 2000 and NO RUST would be an easy choice for me.
The DT360 and 5 speed manual would be great in a 5-6 window but may be a bit underpowered in a larger bus.
Stay away from the rusty buses.
Good luck.
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Is that an easy choice as in yes to the T444E? Im mostly looking to use it as a house extension that i can use for whatever reason (my own tiny house for personal space but also set up with solar to make its own power in case of a bad situation arrising)but to be able to just start it up and take my girlfriend and her kids on some trips...nothing too far and to take to festivals here or there
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02-06-2020, 10:59 AM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildandwonderfulwv
Is that an easy choice as in yes to the T444E? Im mostly looking to use it as a house extension that i can use for whatever reason (my own tiny house for personal space but also set up with solar to make its own power in case of a bad situation arrising)but to be able to just start it up and take my girlfriend and her kids on some trips...nothing too far and to take to festivals here or there
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Yes, of the buses you mentioned, the T444e/2000 equipped bus would be my first choice. I would still do my due diligence before putting my money down. Make sure that it is equipped and actually in the condition that the seller has advertised.
We recently had a to do here when a bus was purchased and driven a considerable distance before it was discovered that the bus had an AT-545 and not the 2000 series transmission.
Good luck.
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02-06-2020, 11:07 AM
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#13
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New Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 4
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I dont know really anything about fixing cars but my lifelong best friend is a really good mechanic and he is going to go with me and check it all out...have never bought a vehicle without him he is actually the one that found it and said i should prob buy it vs the other one.
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02-06-2020, 12:32 PM
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#14
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Suburbs of Winterset, OH
Posts: 802
Year: 2005
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: FS65
Engine: Mercedes 6.4L
Rated Cap: just the 2 of us
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Less rust is always better. Also, avoid anything with the old "split" rims. You'll have a hard time finding anybody willing to deal with them.
Be patient, there are plenty of full length (11 window) buses out there that can be had for reasonable $. And that's my .02.
Good luck.
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02-06-2020, 12:33 PM
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#15
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,259
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American
Engine: 8.3 Cummins ISC
Rated Cap: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnYardCamp
Less rust is always better. Also, avoid anything with the old "split" rims. You'll have a hard time finding anybody willing to deal with them.
Be patient, there are plenty of full length (11 window) buses out there that can be had for reasonable $. And that's my .02.
Good luck.
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Those are Dayton wheels which aren't split rim. They are still really old and obsolete.
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02-06-2020, 07:11 PM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnYardCamp
Less rust is always better. Also, avoid anything with the old "split" rims. You'll have a hard time finding anybody willing to deal with them.
Be patient, there are plenty of full length (11 window) buses out there that can be had for reasonable $. And that's my .02.
Good luck.
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Nothing made in the last few decades has split rims.
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02-06-2020, 07:12 PM
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#17
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIbluebird
Those are Dayton wheels which aren't split rim. They are still really old and obsolete.
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You can change daytons on the side of the road with no compressor or giant air tools.
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02-06-2020, 07:38 PM
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#18
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Suburbs of Winterset, OH
Posts: 802
Year: 2005
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: FS65
Engine: Mercedes 6.4L
Rated Cap: just the 2 of us
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
Nothing made in the last few decades has split rims.
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Yeah, not sure when they stopped being used...one of the buses being considered by WildWonderfulWV was from the early 90's.
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02-06-2020, 08:20 PM
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#19
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnYardCamp
Yeah, not sure when they stopped being used...one of the buses being considered by WildWonderfulWV was from the early 90's.
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They may be Daytons, but not "widowmakers".
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02-12-2020, 03:31 PM
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#20
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 23
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I know it’s a long way away from you and might cost just a tad more but please go to the the website “ wesellschoolbuses.com
That is were we got our bus.
# 727-457-3422 speak with Greg!
They will find you EXACTLY what you want and need!
They even saved us 5000$ having the bus painted.
Send me a contact number or email and I’ll show you some awesome pictures.
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