Welcome to Project Kyna!

[kelseyhuksy]

Originally Posted by M1031A1

Kelsey;

A word of warning about those buses.

I drove one of them when I was living in Houston during my training. Unless you guys are planning on parking it and using it as a tiny home, I would avoid them at all costs. They are VERY expensive to own and run. In addition, they have a VERY hard ride. You will feel every bump, let alone pot-hole, when driving those things. Houston dumped them a while back, scrapped them, for many good reasons. We drove one while in training just for the experience of what a full day driving felt like in the span of less than an hour.

I admire your willingness to take on such a project. However, you guys may be very well disappointed in the ability to drive for any time without feeling like you've been in a boxing match, kidney punched, and lost by a KO.

If you guys read the different threads on the site there are very few (if any) builders using this platform for a bunch of good reasons. Besides the ride, they have very low ground clearance and cannot go off-road. In a heavy downpour the intake can suck up water and create hydrostatic lock in the engine. LOTS of modifications will be required to make it drivable in adverse weather conditions. I remember a bunch of these buses were totaled due to flooding in five inches of water in Houston back in the 2000's. All were scrapped. They were less than 10 years old and cost the city $500,000 each more-or-less when new.

I just want you guys to approach this as an eyes-wide-open awareness these buses are not the easiest to convert or to drive comfortably.

If you do find one and still believe in your plan, best of luck!

M

That's a really useful testimonial! Thank you for sharing it. My experience with the Gilligs have been pretty favorable so far, but that was as a passenger while commuting, not as a driver doing long road trips. Was your experience with Gillig's or with LF transit buses in general?



Soleil (my partner) and I aren't committed to the Gillig specifically, but we want a city transit bus with the low floor in order to get a comfortable ceiling height for them (they're 6'5") without having to do the extra hard work of a roof-raise.


What would be your recommendation to avoid sucking water through the intake? Would a re-route of the pipe and adding an extension be enough?

[alpine44]

Originally Posted by kelseyhuksy

That's a really useful testimonial! Thank you for sharing it. My experience with the Gilligs have been pretty favorable so far, but that was as a passenger while commuting, not as a driver doing long road trips. Was your experience with Gillig's or with LF transit buses in general?



Soleil (my partner) and I aren't committed to the Gillig specifically, but we want a city transit bus with the low floor in order to get a comfortable ceiling height for them (they're 6'5") without having to do the extra hard work of a roof-raise.


What would be your recommendation to avoid sucking water through the intake? Would a re-route of the pipe and adding an extension be enough?

Keep in mind that there is a strong bias towards school buses on this site.
Search for member "joeblack" here, check out where he went recently with his converted low-floor transit bus, and contact him for advice. You will be surprised about where a transit bus can go.

Concerning the Gilligs specifically, there are two rear axle versions out there. One with two air springs and another one with four. The four bag axle has a better reputation for comfort.

As with school buses, the suspension of a transit bus is set up for a full load of passengers and will be too stiff for a lighter RV conversion. The stiffness, or more correctly spring rate, of an air suspension depends on the volume of air in the spring. (If you lower the pressure, the bus will just sag down). By adding additional volume in the form of small header tanks to the springs, you can soften the ride considerably and much cheaper than re-springing a leaf spring bus.

Look at the service history of a transit bus and note at what mileage the engine and/or transmission was changed. Then, buy a bus that has less than half of that amount on replaced components and you are not going to wear this thing out in your much less demanding RV mode. I would not waste my time tearing everything down preemptively if I have decent data for the mean time between failure for the expensive components. Transit authorities and the manufacturers know very well how long these components last. It does not cost you anything to ask.

If water ingress into the intake is really an issue on a particular transit bus, fabricating a snorkel will be a piece of cake compared to a roof raise on a skoolie.

[M1031A1]

Originally Posted by alpine44

Keep in mind that there is a strong bias towards school buses on this site.
Search for member "joeblack" here, check out where he went recently with his converted low-floor transit bus, and contact him for advice. You will be surprised about where a transit bus can go.

Concerning the Gilligs specifically, there are two rear axle versions out there. One with two air springs and another one with four. The four bag axle has a better reputation for comfort.

As with school buses, the suspension of a transit bus is set up for a full load of passengers and will be too stiff for a lighter RV conversion. The stiffness, or more correctly spring rate, of an air suspension depends on the volume of air in the spring. (If you lower the pressure, the bus will just sag down). By adding additional volume in the form of small header tanks to the springs, you can soften the ride considerably and much cheaper than re-springing a leaf spring bus.

Look at the service history of a transit bus and note at what mileage the engine and/or transmission was changed. Then, buy a bus that has less than half of that amount on replaced components and you are not going to wear this thing out in your much less demanding RV mode. I would not waste my time tearing everything down preemptively if I have decent data for the mean time between failure for the expensive components. Transit authorities and the manufacturers know very well how long these components last. It does not cost you anything to ask.

If water ingress into the intake is really an issue on a particular transit bus, fabricating a snorkel will be a piece of cake compared to a roof raise on a skoolie.

Having owned three 18 wheelers as well as two surplus buses, driven well over 2.5 million miles professionally, my experiences are wide and deep.

Though there is an emphasis on this site for skoolies (thus the name...) there are other builds out here to look at and ask questions about different aspects of the vehicle in question.

I have had extensive experiences with air ride suspensions. Like anything else there are good points and not so good points to air ride. Good points include adjustability, (depending upon design) flexibility, and customization. Not so good points are maintenance (think a bag blow-out, it happens more often than advertised, leaking air lines, corroded fittings, and - yes - main-load leaf springs on some designs will fail), cost (both parts and hours of labor), a more complicated system as compared to leaf springs, and if there's a major leak somewhere, the system will shut down (think brake lock down and no way to limp off a major road). All these things happened to me or my drivers at least once.

My experiences with transits is they are very slow, especially if they are the diesel-electric bus. The worst is the "caterpillar" or "snake" with the rear of the bus pivoting behind the front. Very slow, very sluggish steering, hardest driving bus I ever had the distain of driving.

The "shorter" buses ran hard. I never had a transit with a smooth shifting transmission, even the new ones. As far as the intake, there are modifications you can make. But do understand, these buses have been run hard and put up wet (they are shut down after running to the yard without a cool down for the engine or turbo if equipped). The chassis have seen well over 1 million miles before being surplused. That's a lot of stress for any chassis.

Just to give you an idea, my favorite semi had well over 1.2 million miles on her before I traded her in. She had a spotless chassis, a valve job at 280K miles, and other smaller maintenance items done along the way. I used Prolong in the 3406"B" engine, and Marvel Mystery oil in the fuel. These buses do not get this kind of attention. School buses usually don't either, but they don't have the mileage transits do.

If height is an issue and you're sold on getting a durable non-skoolie bus, look at MCI buses. They have been built for just such service. I have driven many of those. They ride like you're on glass. Very smooth, very comfortable, very durable, and parts are easy to get nationwide. They also have large cargo bays for luggage where you can have all the room for plumbing and electrical systems - and have extra room to boot for storing extra stuff. Most already have a built-in bathroom with fresh water tanks and black water receiving tanks. Servicing the tanks is super simple and draining the black water tanks is relatively "clean" so long as there is an RV tank servicing area to drain into. They can be more up-front money, but they deliver quality. There are some builders on the site converting their MCIs and are able to go off road and off grid in luxury at a very affordable price. Well worth talking to them. My wife was trying to get me to buy one. I almost did, but the bus we have now became available.

Think an MCI like this one from the late '90s to 2005ish (see attachments)

An interior like what's attached should allow for 6'5" person. I had tall people in my MCI and no complaints.

The bathrooms are like what I posted as well, ease of maintenance and easy to keep clean.



Best of luck with all of your decisions!

M

[alpine44]

Originally Posted by M1031A1

Having owned three 18 wheelers as well as two surplus buses, driven well over 2.5 million miles professionally, my experiences are wide and deep.

Though there is an emphasis on this site for skoolies (thus the name...) there are other builds out here to look at and ask questions about different aspects of the vehicle in question.

I have had extensive experiences with air ride suspensions. Like anything else there are good points and not so good points to air ride. Good points include adjustability, (depending upon design) flexibility, and customization. Not so good points are maintenance (think a bag blow-out, it happens more often than advertised, leaking air lines, corroded fittings, and - yes - main-load leaf springs on some designs will fail), cost (both parts and hours of labor), a more complicated system as compared to leaf springs, and if there's a major leak somewhere, the system will shut down (think brake lock down and no way to limp off a major road). All these things happened to me or my drivers at least once.

My experiences with transits is they are very slow, especially if they are the diesel-electric bus. The worst is the "caterpillar" or "snake" with the rear of the bus pivoting behind the front. Very slow, very sluggish steering, hardest driving bus I ever had the distain of driving.

The "shorter" buses ran hard. I never had a transit with a smooth shifting transmission, even the new ones. As far as the intake, there are modifications you can make. But do understand, these buses have been run hard and put up wet (they are shut down after running to the yard without a cool down for the engine or turbo if equipped). The chassis have seen well over 1 million miles before being surplused. That's a lot of stress for any chassis.

Just to give you an idea, my favorite semi had well over 1.2 million miles on her before I traded her in. She had a spotless chassis, a valve job at 280K miles, and other smaller maintenance items done along the way. I used Prolong in the 3406"B" engine, and Marvel Mystery oil in the fuel. These buses do not get this kind of attention. School buses usually don't either, but they don't have the mileage transits do.

If height is an issue and you're sold on getting a durable non-skoolie bus, look at MCI buses. They have been built for just such service. I have driven many of those. They ride like you're on glass. Very smooth, very comfortable, very durable, and parts are easy to get nationwide. They also have large cargo bays for luggage where you can have all the room for plumbing and electrical systems - and have extra room to boot for storing extra stuff. Most already have a built-in bathroom with fresh water tanks and black water receiving tanks. Servicing the tanks is super simple and draining the black water tanks is relatively "clean" so long as there is an RV tank servicing area to drain into. They can be more up-front money, but they deliver quality. There are some builders on the site converting their MCIs and are able to go off road and off grid in luxury at a very affordable price. Well worth talking to them. My wife was trying to get me to buy one. I almost did, but the bus we have now became available.

Think an MCI like this one from the late '90s to 2005ish (see attachments)

An interior like what's attached should allow for 6'5" person. I had tall people in my MCI and no complaints.

The bathrooms are like what I posted as well, ease of maintenance and easy to keep clean.



Best of luck with all of your decisions!

M

Absolutely agree. A semi with 1 million miles will have more life left in it than a transit bus with the same miles. (The semi will also cost a couple ten-thousands more). Rolling down the interstate is a whole lot easier on every component that the constant stop and go of a transit bus.

I would venture the guess that the harsh shifting of transit buses is by design. The transmission is already one of the major wear items and the quicker you get the clutches to fully grip the less wear there is. So, if I wanted to make a transmission last a little longer in an application of constant shifting at WOT, I would NOT program it for smooth gear transitions with delayed clutch engagement.

There have been a couple of Gilligs sold by Universities that had an easier life before they were replaced with a newer model. That is often due to changing ADA rules and not because of wear.

A coach bus like the MCI would be a much better base for long distance travel than a transit albeit at substantially higher acquisition cost. Maintenance complexity/cost will be similar to a transit, both being higher than a dog-nosed skoolie.

The OP should get in touch with "JDOnTheGo" about life on the road in a converted MCI.
(And again, "Joeblack" would be the one to ask about his travels in a converted transit)

I prefer air ride any day. Much better comfort especially with variable vehicle weight and I have changed bags in the driveway which is not going to happen with leaf springs. Most skoolies have already air for the brakes and if you drive one of these you better understand the pneumatic system and have spare hoses and fittings in your kit.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by kelseyhuksy

One of the biggest hurdles to clear is finding space for a 40' vehicle that has enough power for us to bring our tools to get this thing built. My partner wants to buy some land of our own, and I'm not opposed to the idea, since I want to keep a home parking area we don't have to be worried about being run off off. We live in the Seattle, WA area, and would welcome recommendations for build spaces, though, since my googling skills have decided to fail me today.

Buying land is the secret trick to long term skoolie success unless life on the road is a 24/7 endeavor.
I'm gearing up to sell our house and get some acreage.
I want a yard full of dogs and buses.

[HazMatt]

Speaking of which...

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Buying land is the secret trick to long term skoolie success unless life on the road is a 24/7 endeavor.
I'm gearing up to sell our house and get some acreage.
I want a yard full of dogs and buses.

How'd that Howler Monkey-Dog settle in?

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by HazMatt

Speaking of which...How'd that Howler Monkey-Dog settle in?

Last I heard she was doing well.
Roxy got a strange call from the original owner out of the blue the other day, but that's a whole 'nother thread!

[HazMatt]

Glad to hear it!
(The dog, not her idiot previous people)

[Native]

Is this the same dog that found you at the beginning of July?

[Redneckotter]

Kelsey, check NWBus's inventory. I looked at your link and they have a couple of late 90's for less than 7 grand, big like you are looking for. Not bad looking busses by the way.

[alpine44]

Originally Posted by Redneckotter

Kelsey, check NWBus's inventory. I looked at your link and they have a couple of late 90's for less than 7 grand, big like you are looking for. Not bad looking busses by the way.

Big != tall.

That is "Big does not equal tall" for you non-geeks.

There is no shortage of big/long school buses but if you stand over 6' you are left with the following choices:

• Be willing to screw up your posture in a standard skoolie
• Perform a roof raise on a standard skoolie
• Look for more height in a transit bus, coach, or box truck

[CMORGANSKOOL]

Originally Posted by alpine44

Big != tall.

That is "Big does not equal tall" for you non-geeks.

There is no shortage of big/long school buses but if you stand over 6' you are left with the following choices:

• Be willing to screw up your posture in a standard skoolie
• Perform a roof raise on a standard skoolie
• Look for more height in a transit bus, coach, or box truck

Yesterday I was working on the bus at the storage lot and a guy come over and asked to come aboard. He was wondering if he could stand up in the bus as he's 6'6". Surprisingly he had a centimeter to spare.

[alpine44]

Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL

Yesterday I was working on the bus at the storage lot and a guy come over and asked to come aboard. He was wondering if he could stand up in the bus as he's 6'6". Surprisingly he had a centimeter to spare.

That's nice to know. What bus exactly and was that with insulation in ceiling and floor? NEVERMIND, I checked your build thread.

I am 6'6" and when I grew up it was a pain to find pants and hotel beds that were long enough. Today, this is a non-issue. I expect that school buses will eventually also follow the trend of people getting taller in our part of the world.

[joeblack5]

Hi Kelsey,
We own a short version low floor city bus. It has air ride and drives very smooth. It has an allison transmission that is very smooth also.
The standing height and Non cave like feeling is perfect withthe windows at the right height. I have lived for 4 yrs in a "normal bus" and the low floor is much more pleasant then taking the steps up and down .


Transits, "I think at least" were new a lot more expensive then school buses and the components are higher quality and there was an attempt to make these very serviceable.


Beginning this year we took a 9300 mile trip in the south west with a lot of dirt-road and boondocking.



There are several people that converted low floor gilligs. Some of them have a partial stainless tub chassis. The electrical system is more advanced and thus complicated then skoolies. I like it but it might be to challenging for electron adverse people.


Some Gilligs are 6" wider, not mine, but that is not a gillig, 6" wider would be very beneficial if you use it for living. May be not for dirt roads..
The city buses are very easy to driveand tight corners are there specialty.


With the 8.3 I would think you would be pretty fast.


Oh yeah,, the standing height is outstanding, even in the raised section in the back it is 6ft 5.


let me know if you have any question that you think I can help you with.


thks Alpine44 for bringing it on their radar.



Good luck, Johan

[CMORGANSKOOL]

Originally Posted by alpine44

That's nice to know. What bus exactly and was that with insulation in ceiling and floor? NEVERMIND, I checked your build thread.

I am 6'6" and when I grew up it was a pain to find pants and hotel beds that were long enough. Today, this is a non-issue. I expect that school buses will eventually also follow the trend of people getting taller in our part of the world.

2007 IC FE300.
I didn't get any paperwork with it, so I'm not sure if it has the tall ceiling option. I'm doing half inch rigid board on the floor so It'll be less roomy but warmer for winter camping.

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL

2007 IC FE300.
I didn't get any paperwork with it, so I'm not sure if it has the tall ceiling option. I'm doing half inch rigid board on the floor so It'll be less roomy but warmer for winter camping.

you should be able to tell at a glance if a bus has a high ceiling - if the top of the windows are higher than the top of the door, or higher than the top of the driver's window, it's a high ceiling bus - if the windows are the same height as the door etc, it's not a high ceiling bus - in some buses the top of the door and the top of the drivers window are higher than the windows in the passenger area, and the ceilings are definitely NOT high - lol