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Old 01-28-2018, 09:57 AM   #81
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Passenger count doesn't always determine length. Base it on how many rows of windows there are.
i know. im looking for a 9-10 window blue bird or international. i used psngr count in that post because OP did as well
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:54 PM   #82
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Two options, same seller, both listed for just above $3K. Willing to work with me on storage until I can transport them right. Liking what I'm seeing but would love some educated opinions. Wanting to move on these within next week if they are good. Only hesitation is that in the pictures it looks like some of the tires have gone low, though seller assures they have good tread. Both have air brakes.

One is an '02 International RE DT466 and 3000 series auto trans, with 229k miles. Has maintenance records. This is my preferred. According to seller "Had an undercoat or powdercoat that is peeling off and is most of what's seen here, wheel well if only bad rusty spot on exterior"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=139...Ey20sZjAjoTzNY
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Jh...qfalRK9nnXOz3W
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hb...1UyrBjfybq9dAN
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Zn...DUXebcAxVkUM7L

Other is a '99 International FE doghouse DT466 with MT643 and 226K miles. Both 72 passenger. "Looks really good, rear door is only rusty spot on it"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sa...3SZiWGt2vW2uDh
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1En...9QizP__HO4VmRy
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cs...IqeEWhrtwAXgW3

Hope to hear some opinions soon! Gonna try and talk him down but at this point I'm willing to pay a premium for something in good condition nearby. Thanks y'all!

PS: If someone poaches these I WILL find you, and I WILL make pitiful noises and puppy eyes at you, lol.
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:10 PM   #83
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The second one looks cleaner. It depends on how comfortable you are remediating rust. The first looks rusty ... the bubbling through by the wheel-arch and floor is hiding extensive rust behind the skin.

Much as I'd like the 3000 transmission, from those pictures I'd be looking at the second one.

Remember that it will cost about a dollar a mile to get a bus home if you have to fly-drive, or rent a car and drive, so factor that into the price.
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:29 PM   #84
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The second one looks cleaner. It depends on how comfortable you are remediating rust. The first looks rusty ... the bubbling through by the wheel-arch and floor is hiding extensive rust behind the skin.

Much as I'd like the 3000 transmission, from those pictures I'd be looking at the second one.

Remember that it will cost about a dollar a mile to get a bus home if you have to fly-drive, or rent a car and drive, so factor that into the price.
I've got all the time in the world to remediate rust, just not the knowledge or resources besides my 4.5" grinder and a dry work-space, lol. If remediating rust is not a hold-back, should I go with the 3000? Based on what little is visible here, how much money do you think I may have to sink into remediation? Time not an issue, money is.

Yeah, second one definitely looks like the safer option as far as rust, and the MT643 is still a solid transmission from what I understand. Long as it's not the AT545. I've heard great things about the 3000 and it's got the RE pusher and tons of underbelly storage, I'm a little in love. Same time I love the classic look of the FE doghouse, but it lacks the underbelly storage and as much interior space. AH! I'm leaning toward the '02 and just dealing with the rust even if I'm kicking myself over it later.

And yeah, that's part of why I'm so attracted to these. So much closer than 90% of good options I'd found so far, and I think I'll be able to have a friend, maybe even the one who used to own a trucking company, bring me down for the cost of gas and food. Planning to try and bring $3500 cash and pay ~$2500 for the bus.
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Old 01-28-2018, 02:09 PM   #85
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Well perforating rust on these vehicles is time-consuming more than expensive or difficult.

It just a matter of cutting out the old, and welding in the new. It can get complicated if ribs (wall and floor) are badly rusted, and you need to ensure the frame has no more than surface rust which can be removed and re-painted.

If you don't have a welder you will be out about 7-800 once you are set up, and if you don't know how to weld, take a short Community College course.

The big advantage is that bus bodies, for the most part, are simply curves and flat panels ... the complex curves on car bodies are absent here.

So it's for you to decide which you are most comfortable with.

Remember that if the body is rusty, so are all the underbody components. Suspension, brakes, steering gear. They are tough parts but if you need to do mechanical repairs underneath the rust gets in the way.
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Old 01-28-2018, 04:46 PM   #86
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Noted, time I've got. I'll be sure to look closely at the ribs and frame.

As far as having a welder I do not, but the shop I'll be working at has a beast of a machine if it's still there and should be available to use for a nominal fee, though I may pick up a small used one for if something goes awry on the road. I'll look into classes, though I'm thinking I'll end up trying to learn one-on-one with the guy I'll be borrowing the welder from, especially since as you say the shapes are fairly simple.

The under-body components being rusted up are probably my main concern along with ribs and frame. Suppose I'll just have to go check the buses out! If the rust scares me off the '02 so be it, I'll be plenty happy with the '99.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:08 PM   #87
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Rust is the worst. Makes everything nasty to work on.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:29 PM   #88
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Rust can be a simple fix...or a deal killer. Make sure to examine the underside closely. Especially around the wheel wells and door. And too much pitting on the frame would send me running. We have seen a couple here that were close to collapsing they were rusted so badly.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:31 PM   #89
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Rust can be a simple fix...or a deal killer. Make sure to examine the underside closely. Especially around the wheel wells and door. And too much pitting on the frame would send me running. We have seen a couple here that were close to collapsing they were rusted so badly.
Lots of times the frame and chassis are rotting under the undercoating. If in doubt stab at it with an old worn out flathead.
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Old 01-29-2018, 09:24 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Rust is the worst. Makes everything nasty to work on.
Good thing I'm well acquainted with nasty work.

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Rust can be a simple fix...or a deal killer. Make sure to examine the underside closely. Especially around the wheel wells and door. And too much pitting on the frame would send me running. We have seen a couple here that were close to collapsing they were rusted so badly.
Yeah, that was pretty much my understanding so far. That undercoat I feel like may actually make fixing it more difficult than if it weren't there assuming the same levels of rust. Guess it may be good that I'm an Indiana boy, where they lay the salt down an inch thick. The...Value of the vehicles I've owned has me well acquainted with identifying truly problematic rust and whether it is or will be a structural issue, though it's also kept my lazy about doing something about it. Why bother treating the rust if I'm just gonna replace the thing in a couple years? Don't worry, I'll be much more loving toward my bus.

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Lots of times the frame and chassis are rotting under the undercoating. If in doubt stab at it with an old worn out flathead.
I'm going to be poking at that thing like a back-alley mugger.

Hmm. I love the '02 but I'm hearing a lot of "eeeehhh" from guys who are the go-tos on this forum. I'm going to check them out on Wednesday but try and fall out of love with it in the mean-time.

Speaking of you guys, Tango, Cowlitz, ECCB, thanks so much for trawling the newbie forum. This can be overwhelming to an unskilled newbie and you guys are making pursuing this dream much, much, MUCH more achievable. I aspire to be as knowledgeable and helpful as y'all some day.
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:19 AM   #91
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At some point in time...we have all been Newbies.
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Old 01-29-2018, 01:33 PM   #92
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True, but there are varying levels of newbishness once you incorporate mechanical, electrical, financial, and legal knowledges. All those included my newbie level is preeeeetty high, lol.

Largely posting again because I forgot to add Twigg in my high-profile member thanks, and the edit option has expired. Y'all are great.

Gonna be going to look at the buses Wednesday or Thursday, will report back with findings or, should the fates smile on me, be posting a build thread.
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Old 01-29-2018, 03:18 PM   #93
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True, but there are varying levels of newbishness once you incorporate mechanical, electrical, financial, and legal knowledges. All those included my newbie level is preeeeetty high, lol.

Largely posting again because I forgot to add Twigg in my high-profile member thanks, and the edit option has expired. Y'all are great.

Gonna be going to look at the buses Wednesday or Thursday, will report back with findings or, should the fates smile on me, be posting a build thread.
You're very welcome.

I don't think any of us come looking for "thanks", but they are always nice.

There are lots of places I can get the information I need, but I come here because it also gives me the chance to give back what I have learned, or just cheer-lead for others in a similar boat ... or bus
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:01 AM   #94
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Two options, same seller, both listed for just above $3K. Willing to work with me on storage until I can transport them right. Liking what I'm seeing but would love some educated opinions. Wanting to move on these within next week if they are good. Only hesitation is that in the pictures it looks like some of the tires have gone low, though seller assures they have good tread. Both have air brakes.

One is an '02 International RE DT466 and 3000 series auto trans, with 229k miles. Has maintenance records. This is my preferred. According to seller "Had an undercoat or powdercoat that is peeling off and is most of what's seen here, wheel well if only bad rusty spot on exterior"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=139...Ey20sZjAjoTzNY
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Jh...qfalRK9nnXOz3W
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hb...1UyrBjfybq9dAN
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Zn...DUXebcAxVkUM7L

Other is a '99 International FE doghouse DT466 with MT643 and 226K miles. Both 72 passenger. "Looks really good, rear door is only rusty spot on it"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sa...3SZiWGt2vW2uDh
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1En...9QizP__HO4VmRy
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cs...IqeEWhrtwAXgW3

Hope to hear some opinions soon! Gonna try and talk him down but at this point I'm willing to pay a premium for something in good condition nearby. Thanks y'all!

PS: If someone poaches these I WILL find you, and I WILL make pitiful noises and puppy eyes at you, lol.

Both of those buses look okay, particularly for the $$$. I would be concerned about more substantial and deal killing rust on the older one with bubbles that are erupting through the skin.

Find out which HP option those engines are and which rear end ratio. DT466 engines came in HP ratings from under 180 HP to over 300 HP. I would suggest the FE is probably close to 210 HP and the RE is probably closer to 275 HP. The HP rating and the final gearing in high gear will determine whether or not the bus is a route bus or a trip bus. I have driven 89-pax Thomas RE's with the Allison 3000 that had 6th gear locked out that had a top speed of 62 MPH with a 250 HP engine. I have driven 84-pax Blue Birds with a 250 HP engine that would cruise easily at 70 MPH and had a top speed well in excess of that.

If you decide one of these buses is the bus for you, don't offer the asking price. Try and wheel and deal a little on them. Things like a full tank of fuel (most used buses I have seen were under 1/4 tank) or a better set of tires (most operators go through the fleet to find the oldest raggiest tires to send down the road).

Remember new tires (old tires are virtually impossible to find at prices that are not low enough to make them a good deal) cost $400-$600 a piece. And that is for cheap Chinese tires.

Your bus should come to you with legal tread depth tires. If the best tires you can get are old and nearly worn out don't worry about. Purchasing tires before you are ready to hit the road is wasting clock time on your tires. 99% of most bus conversions and other RV's will have their tires time out long before they wear out. I have seen tires that had so few miles on them that they still had the nubs on them. But the tires were more than ten years old and the side walls were starting to fail.

Good luck and keep us posted as to your progress.
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Old 01-30-2018, 04:31 PM   #95
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Both of those buses look okay, particularly for the $$$.
That was my thought, especially since I'm gonna try real hard to talk the seller down significantly. They listed them at same price despite different drive-trains, years, and rust conditions so I figure they intend to have some wiggle room.

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I would be concerned about more substantial and deal killing rust on the older one with bubbles that are erupting through the skin.
Crap, I don't see what you mean. I see the skin bubbles on the '02, but not the '99. If it's not too much trouble could you point out where you saw it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
Find out which HP option those engines are and which rear end ratio. DT466 engines came in HP ratings from under 180 HP to over 300 HP. I would suggest the FE is probably close to 210 HP and the RE is probably closer to 275 HP. The HP rating and the final gearing in high gear will determine whether or not the bus is a route bus or a trip bus. I have driven 89-pax Thomas RE's with the Allison 3000 that had 6th gear locked out that had a top speed of 62 MPH with a 250 HP engine. I have driven 84-pax Blue Birds with a 250 HP engine that would cruise easily at 70 MPH and had a top speed well in excess of that.
Got it. Off to research how to find that out!

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Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
If you decide one of these buses is the bus for you, don't offer the asking price. Try and wheel and deal a little on them. Things like a full tank of fuel (most used buses I have seen were under 1/4 tank) or a better set of tires (most operators go through the fleet to find the oldest raggiest tires to send down the road).
Yeah, only a fool offers asking price on a private sale. I intend to bring down more than they are asking just in case they've got something I really want but my intent is to try and drive away paying $2500 when they asked $3200. I don't wanna go above $3k unless they've got some seriously worth-while goodies to throw in.

Something I just found out from them offering is that they already have some motor-home parts around, which kinda has me concerned that they had the same mission but ran into a problem with the buses? Or maybe just gave up the dream due to personal issues such as health or career if I'm lucky, but now I'm hesitating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
Remember new tires (old tires are virtually impossible to find at prices that are not low enough to make them a good deal) cost $400-$600 a piece. And that is for cheap Chinese tires.

Your bus should come to you with legal tread depth tires. If the best tires you can get are old and nearly worn out don't worry about. Purchasing tires before you are ready to hit the road is wasting clock time on your tires. 99% of most bus conversions and other RV's will have their tires time out long before they wear out. I have seen tires that had so few miles on them that they still had the nubs on them. But the tires were more than ten years old and the side walls were starting to fail.
Great advice, thank you. Tires have been a big concern but I figure I can make 'em happen when I need 'em, so long as whatever I've got can get me around safely.

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Good luck and keep us posted as to your progress.
I sure will. If I do purchase I'll be starting the build thread this weekend.




To anyone watching, this may be a long-shot, but I was kinda hoping somebody would be willing to take a call from me while I'm down there looking at them? Ideally a video-call so I can point out anything that I may think is an issue, but any sage words of wisdom at all would be very, very much appreciated. If you'd be alright with that please shoot me a PM and I'll be indebted. Or if not I'll just go for it and pray for the best.
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Old 01-30-2018, 08:57 PM   #96
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ultimately if you are looking at busses from a dealer thats only a few hours away.. id hop in the car and go.. just look.. and crawl all over busses and brainstorm and dream..

my Carpenter bus came from a dealer (that seemingly everyone here loves to hate..) and the whole day spent driving, messing around with, talking about, learning about , etc busses was great... the one I chose. fit the bill perfect for what i wanted even though it isnt the 'ideal' drivetrain everyomne wants.. (however that drivetrain's gotten me oh and it didnt have A/C but I fixed that right quick...

you dont have to buy the first bus or 2nd bus or 3rd bus that you climb into.. but physically being around them is a huge help..
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:01 PM   #97
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That was my thought, especially since I'm gonna try real hard to talk the seller down significantly. They listed them at same price despite different drive-trains, years, and rust conditions so I figure they intend to have some wiggle room.



Crap, I don't see what you mean. I see the skin bubbles on the '02, but not the '99. If it's not too much trouble could you point out where you saw it?



Got it. Off to research how to find that out!



Yeah, only a fool offers asking price on a private sale. I intend to bring down more than they are asking just in case they've got something I really want but my intent is to try and drive away paying $2500 when they asked $3200. I don't wanna go above $3k unless they've got some seriously worth-while goodies to throw in.

Something I just found out from them offering is that they already have some motor-home parts around, which kinda has me concerned that they had the same mission but ran into a problem with the buses? Or maybe just gave up the dream due to personal issues such as health or career if I'm lucky, but now I'm hesitating.



Great advice, thank you. Tires have been a big concern but I figure I can make 'em happen when I need 'em, so long as whatever I've got can get me around safely.



I sure will. If I do purchase I'll be starting the build thread this weekend.




To anyone watching, this may be a long-shot, but I was kinda hoping somebody would be willing to take a call from me while I'm down there looking at them? Ideally a video-call so I can point out anything that I may think is an issue, but any sage words of wisdom at all would be very, very much appreciated. If you'd be alright with that please shoot me a PM and I'll be indebted. Or if not I'll just go for it and pray for the best.
where is the seller and when are you planning to go?

I live only a few hours from bloomington indiana.. if its not too far away I could have fun lookin at busses with ya guys.
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:48 PM   #98
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Well the plan was to go down today or tomorrow, but as usual life has other plans and I've had to clear out the meager savings I'd made to pay for unexpected bills. Man. At this rate by the time I've made enough I'll either be ancient or dead from over-work.

Oh well, more time to research I guess. CadillacKid, I very much appreciate the offer! I'll be keeping you in mind when it's time to go have a serious look. In the mean-time I think I'm gonna stop by Midwest Transit next time I'm up in their area just to poke around some things like you suggested.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:32 PM   #99
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Well the plan was to go down today or tomorrow, but as usual life has other plans and I've had to clear out the meager savings I'd made to pay for unexpected bills. Man. At this rate by the time I've made enough I'll either be ancient or dead from over-work.

Oh well, more time to research I guess. CadillacKid, I very much appreciate the offer! I'll be keeping you in mind when it's time to go have a serious look. In the mean-time I think I'm gonna stop by Midwest Transit next time I'm up in their area just to poke around some things like you suggested.
Midwest is slow this time of year, they recommended checking back in March. You have to be quick there when buses come in as they have central american customers that will buy buses 100 at a time.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:20 PM   #100
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Yep, you'd mentioned and I'd noted. They've got 3 coming in March they suggested putting a deposit on, but I think I'm just gonna see if they're alright with me poking about their yard for a short time at some point. Just spend some time around buses, take some measurements, identify what the good, bad, and ugly look or feel like up close and personal. Waste of their time if they need to accompany me on the lot and if that's the case I'll leave 'em be, I just want some up-close inspiration and understanding. Can do all the research in the world but nothing like being in it, no matter what it is.
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