Anybody on here taken a converted school bus into Mexico?

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Mountain Gnome

I was robbed, and then held hostage for ransom, and had my kids threatened to be shot in the head unless I co-operated.
That was Roland, OK, USA, 2001.
The local cop. It was sick in that cop house. Worse than a bad movie.

I signed papers. What can I do now about it?


I went to Mexico in 1993 and again after the Zapatista Uprising [pissed off that American Companies were coming into S. Mexico, kicking people off the land that their ancestors lived on for hundreds of years (before white man), clear-cutting it, and then raising cattle, which got shipped live over to Texas and slaughtered there as USA beef to be sold as Big Macs] in 1995 when there was a much greater "police" presence. The first cop we met in 1993 caught us camping directly under a sign that said "no camping", and he was only concerned that we didn't have guns, and left us alone. Never had another run-in that trip. The cops robbed me twice in 1995. We were prepared, and they didn't get much the first time, driving 100 miles from Mexico City on the west side. We played stupid, and kept him there for 5 or 10 mins looking up words that sound similar to "infraction" in our dictionary. "Oh! We broke the law!?!? Can we pay the fine right now? Here we have these small coins. We are on the way to the ATM." He never turned off his light. He had just finished with someone else when we passed him. When he left us, he pulled over the very next guy he got behind. I'm sure he lost money on us! Two others tried, but we told them we were just robbed by the first cop, and he got all our $$$. Then the last time, 5 cops with long guns caught us at camp and got a bit more paper cash that I had in pocket, for "protection", but still not much. Then they asked for the "big bills." My bro was sure we were gonna die and disappear into the ocean. "Give it to them" he said, about to poop his shorts. I told him to show them his ATM card (they were a relatively new concept, then). "OK" the cops said. Then they saw our small boom-box radio, and wanted to take it. My bro suddenly grew balls and said "hell no!" (that was our sanity on the road). They said "OK". And left.
A Canadian couple pulled up the next few days, and we warned them. The cops got to them that night before we could get back to camp, and the old man met them with a machete. They asked him what he would do, since they had guns. He said he was a German Paratrooper in WWII, and had been down behind the lines twice, and had faced death more than they would ever know, and they were not getting a penny. They said "OK" and left.


But all the people I met in Mexico were some of the kindest, nicest open-minded, un-bigoted people I have ever met.



Back in the USA, I've been intimidated by large groups of cops (7 Jersy bois in a circle around me, holding their batons in hand, and I'm a 115lb skinny short peaceful hippie looking guy) and illegally searched because of a cracked windshield; harassed for 45 mins by cops in "American Falls", ID, when I ran outta gas, who told me they were the "good guys"; pulled over in NC for ===wait for it=== driving 65 in a 65 zone while he rode my bumper for 20 miles while traffic wizzed by at 75 in the fast lane (really, he just didn't like my bumper sticker); and my favorite, when I was pulled over for ===singing=== along with the radio while looking at a cop who was passing in the other direction: "don't make faces at cops!" he said angrily, after illegally pulling me over. Then there was the time the Penn State National Guard showed up to a Dead show I went to in Hershey, complete with 3 tanks in their convoy of 30 large vehicles. Presumably because hippies in school buses are a terrorist threat to Merica. EDIT: and at that show, there were thousands of cops, staged just a few hundred feet apart, walking down every parking lot isle, so one was walking by your car every 30-60 seconds. Totally a police-state. I only got 2 BTs in.


By my experience, Gimme a Mexican cop over an American one any day.



And there are WAY too many disgusting bigots here.

Interesting stories and interesting perspective.

[maddmaxx]

Originally Posted by BaconFarms

"Donkey show", now that's funny right there.

When I was in the service, I was in Juarez, Mexico after midnight, and 4 of us took a taxi for a ride to our hotel. After seeing the same building about four times, I told the driver enough of driving us around in circles and get us to the motel. I am not sure he would have ever stopped.

Personally, I having been to all the "shi&t holes" in the world will never leave the US again.

We are where it's at,

BaconFarms

A black out drunken expedition to Mexico to act like idiots (that wouldn't be tolerated in the US, Canada, Europe either) is no way to compare countries. I can think of ALOT of places in the US that I wouldn't be caught dead in after dark.

As a US, white, gringo who has spent some time in Mexico over several decades, I have made a few observations.

1) if I was stranded on the roadside... Its far more likely I'd get assistance in Mex than US
2) Most bad stories/experiences you hear in Mex consist of tourist breaking the law and being upset that their entitled antics aren't tolerated.
3) Most violence in Mex is drug gangs shooting each other or at the local police (usually the crooked cops). Stay out of sketchy areas
4) If you go looking for trouble... Chances are, u'll find it. (Regardless of the country)
5) Respect the people, the country, the culture, and the laws .... And you will find Mexicans to be some of the nicest, helpful, genuine, happy people in the Americas. Not to mention hard working... American have great ingenuity, but most lack a solid work ethic

[TheHubbardBus]

Originally Posted by maddmaxx

Gotta say.... I just love all the FEAR and Disinformation ppl spread about Mexico. Last thing I want is an invasive swarm of intolerant, uninformed, entitled Americans and Canadians ruining a truly beautiful country/culture with their myoptic views while driving up the prices for those of us that appreciate all that it offers.

If you go looking for trouble in Mexico (or anywhere for that matter)... Chances are you'll find it. Americans think Mexico is lawless so they can go there and do whatever the f*"k they want with impunity. Respect their laws, respect their culture, respect the people... And most importantly don't be a typical American assh*le and you'll find an amazing place and people with a deep and varied history. Granted, if your in a border town there will be the typical graft that is present in tourist areas worldwide.

Disclosure: I'm white, live in San Diego, don't speak Spanish and cross over to Mexico on a regular basis for last 30+ years(was actually there day B4 yesterday). Have not taken my bus (yet) as it's not finished, but many trips in car and RV.

Your depiction of burning busses in Mexico is analogous to school shootings in the US! Do we have them?.. YES way too many! But everybody I know still sends their kids to school with little hesitation or worry.

For those that like to read... I recommend a great little book about an American journalists experience traveling and building a home in Baja Mexico. It is a little dated (1970'ish), but still a great read and more typical than what you hear on the fear mongering US press.

"God and Mr. Gomez" by Jack C. Smith

You sure think you know a lot about me based on four words and a few scalped pictures posted as much for entertainment value as anything else. Pro-tip: You know nothing about me. Maybe you should take a break from preaching respect long enough to actually display some.

I also have a book recommendation. 'Spanish for Dummies'. Then again, if you've traveled to Mexico for 30 years & still can't speak the language, maybe that's still a bit too high-level for you. Eres perezoso, o solo un idiota?

[maddmaxx]

Originally Posted by ACamper

I traveled all over Mexico in the 90s. Their used to be lots of hippies that would drive buses down there for the winter and camp on the beaches, live cheap in the sun. In the 90s Mexico was fairly safe you might get hit up for police bribes once in a while or get robbed after dark in the wrong place.

Mexico Today 2020- Impunity is the law of the land. Mexico has the highest murder rate in the world(these are the bodies they find, an estimated 60,000 bodies have not been found). Also one of the highest kidnapping rates in the world(even though most kidnappings in Mexico do not get reported). Check your Sate Department warnings they get worse every month. 3 US citizens have been killed in the last week or so try to visit families in Mexico. Try putting in “mexico murder” or “mexico kidnapping” in a search engine you will find lots of results to read about.

*On the internet you will hear lots of gringos say thing like “You just have to be cool like me” “I have no problems”. Ask a Mexican they will tell you it is very dangerous and deadly.*

I knew of someone that was murdered in the Baja recently and know people that have been kidnapped there. There is a war in the Baja between cartels right now lots of young sicarios roaming around heavenly armed doing what ever they please. Do you want to be on a secluded beach with your wife when they roll up ? I don't

Like I said I have traveled all over Mexico in the 90s I didn't think twice about it,Today 2020 ? No Thanks ! Mexico is a Failed State.

100% fear porn!!!

Although keep up the facade cuz I kinda like my free open space, uncrowded beaches, cheap (and amazing) food, and layed back lifestyle.

Idk what/when/where you went... But the late 80s and '90s were much worse in Baja & the border regions during the cocaine wars.

[maddmaxx]

"By my experience, Gimme a Mexican cop over an American one any day.



And there are WAY too many disgusting bigots here."


Thank you for putting it in perspective!! The US cops are WAY more dishonest (as a collective institution)... Parking tickets, traffic tickets, towing fees, citations in USA are a hell of a lot more than I can pay a local Mexican authority to get out of a minor infraction. In both instances YOU probably "BROKE A LAW" so all you bigots need to quit whining and quit thinking Mexican rules don't apply to you because you're an American. That attitude isn't tolerated in other countries, and you deserve EVERYTHING you get!!

[ACamper]

Originally Posted by maddmaxx

Americans think Mexico is lawless so they can go there and do whatever the f*"k they want with impunity.

Less then 1-in-10 murders every get "solved" in Mexico. I stress the "less then"
Mexico- In 2018 their were 33,341 murder victims(bodies found) less then 3,000 people were ever arrested for these. The other 30,000 murdered victims were just picked up and buried end of story. Impunity. These are just the bodies found, it is estimated that 10s of thousands of bodies get buried, burned or dissolved in acid every year in Mexico leaving family members forever searching

The Entire World.. thinks Mexico is lawless.

Mexico 2018- 30 murders per 100,000
United States 2018- 4 murders per 100,000

Originally Posted by maddmaxx

Disclosure: I'm white, live in San Diego, don't speak Spanish and cross over to Mexico on a regular basis for last 30+ years(was actually there day B4 yesterday). Have not taken my bus (yet) as it's not finished, but many trips in car and RV.

You should learn some Spanish and get to know the Mexican people and culture beyond interactions from buying stuff.

[BaconFarms]

Originally Posted by maddmaxx

A black out drunken expedition to Mexico to act like idiots (that wouldn't be tolerated in the US, Canada, Europe either) is no way to compare countries. I can think of ALOT of places in the US that I wouldn't be caught dead in after dark.

As a US, white, gringo who has spent some time in Mexico over several decades, I have made a few observations.

1) if I was stranded on the roadside... Its far more likely I'd get assistance in Mex than US
2) Most bad stories/experiences you hear in Mex consist of tourist breaking the law and being upset that their entitled antics aren't tolerated.
3) Most violence in Mex is drug gangs shooting each other or at the local police (usually the crooked cops). Stay out of sketchy areas
4) If you go looking for trouble... Chances are, u'll find it. (Regardless of the country)
5) Respect the people, the country, the culture, and the laws .... And you will find Mexicans to be some of the nicest, helpful, genuine, happy people in the Americas. Not to mention hard working... American have great ingenuity, but most lack a solid work ethic

You make a huge assumption that I drink, I don't.

BaconFarms

[maddmaxx]

Originally Posted by kidharris

I guess my Mexican friends in Puebla are just liars. They have lived there all of their lives and either they haven't learned a thing ...or... maybe they don't want me to come visit. I would probably be better off to believe some sarcastic, anonymous, stranger throwing around emojis on the internet.



*on the internet you'll hear Elvis is still alive. " Actually, I heard that on TV and it was one of the reasons I quit watching TV. Evidently, you will also hear, on the internet (but not on TV? or any news media?) that Mexico is the safest place in the world to visit. $%#@ing internet



BTW, just because you have not had a problem yet doesn't mean that you won't have one in the future. Maybe you should climb off of that high horse and look around. Just because you have been lucky enough not to die yet, doesn't mean that you are not going to die. Only people who use inductive logic think that way. Luck will only get you so far, hopefully, far enough. Just thinking,,,

You should probably just stay home in "Your SAFE PLACE".

I guessing your friends would be embarrassed if you went there and claimed you knew them. Mexicans are a proud ppl by nature.

[peteg59]

Anyone that wants to travel to Mexico should feel free to do so at will.

There are unsafe places here in the US as well, so there is a need to be aware of one's surroundings when traveling either country.

Are the risks to one's safety and liberty higher when traveling as an American in Mexico? The unequivocal answer is yes.

No bigotry, prejudice, or malice intended in the above observation...

[maddmaxx]

Originally Posted by ACamper

You should learn some Spanish and get to know the Mexican people and culture beyond interactions from buying stuff.

Aren't we a pious one today? I know enough Spanish to get by, just not fluent in it by any means. Understandably, that is 100% MY fault because a vast majority of my close friends are Mexican and it's just been too easy for me always having someone around to interpret if needed.

I see.... you think of Mexico as just a place to buy cheap trinkets to show your worldliness. I don't have that need... I go for the experience, culture, adventure, food, outdoors, and generally just because I love Mexico and the ppl who live there. Do I buy things? Ya, a token amount here and there just to support locals and I enjoy a good barter. However, currently my purchases are more focused on buying land/property, not Sombreros and blankets.

I appreciate you and others too afraid to go there due to fear... It has kept the Real Estate prices very affordable. Thx

[ACamper]

Originally Posted by maddmaxx

100% fear porn!!!
Although keep up the facade cuz I kinda like my free open space, uncrowded beaches, cheap (and amazing) food, and layed back lifestyle.

I bet you would enjoy Acapulco these days. They are rated “Level 4: Do Not Travel” by the US State Department. So a visitor can enjoy beaches and lobbies all to themselves.
It can be hard to find open stores due to them being all extorted out of business so be sure to stock up necessities when you can.

Mazatlan is another splendid vacation destination that has increasingly less crowds. Located in the state of Sinaloa they are currently also enjoying a “Level 4: Do Not Travel” by the US State Department, that always seem to clear out those pesky tourists.
I hear you can get some great deals on rentals. Cartel owners don't really need to turn a profit and guests make thing look ,,, legit. guests can also lead to kidnapping great leads !

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by maddmaxx

Gotta say.... I just love all the FEAR and Disinformation ppl spread about Mexico. Last thing I want is an invasive swarm of intolerant, uninformed, entitled Americans and Canadians ruining a truly beautiful country/culture with their myoptic views while driving up the prices for those of us that appreciate all that it offers.

If you go looking for trouble in Mexico (or anywhere for that matter)... Chances are you'll find it. Americans think Mexico is lawless so they can go there and do whatever the f*"k they want with impunity. Respect their laws, respect their culture, respect the people... And most importantly don't be a typical American assh*le and you'll find an amazing place and people with a deep and varied history. Granted, if your in a border town there will be the typical graft that is present in tourist areas worldwide.

Disclosure: I'm white, live in San Diego, don't speak Spanish and cross over to Mexico on a regular basis for last 30+ years(was actually there day B4 yesterday). Have not taken my bus (yet) as it's not finished, but many trips in car and RV.

Your depiction of burning busses in Mexico is analogous to school shootings in the US! Do we have them?.. YES way too many! But everybody I know still sends their kids to school with little hesitation or worry.

For those that like to read... I recommend a great little book about an American journalists experience traveling and building a home in Baja Mexico. It is a little dated (1970'ish), but still a great read and more typical than what you hear on the fear mongering US press.

"God and Mr. Gomez" by Jack C. Smith

I've only been to 3 border towns and never had a positive experience. I would like to visit the interior and maybe retire there. I don't watch TV, but I do get my news from the Internet. I prefer the internet, because of the diversification, I can check out both sides of an issue and try not to be brain washed.



I am a little weird some times in my information gathering and decision making processes. For instance in the 2016 election cycle, during the primaries I contributed $25 to what I thought was the best candidate from both parties hoping that they would each get nominated and I/we would have the best chance of getting a good president. Neither one got nominated, but both parties have been passing my email address around & filling up my email box with lies, propaganda, and requests for donations and petition signature for 4 years. Boy did I get an ear full. Because I gave them a few dollars the Democrats think that I am a Democrat and the Republicans think that I am a Republican. I wound up not voting for either one of the lying thieves that got nominated. I voted independant.



Forget the US press, the Mexican press says that the murder rates and police corruption is a fact. My Mexican friends say the same thing. It is a big political issue there. How could (Why would ?) that be if it were not true? That's a question btw.


Seems to me that, in general, Americans go to Mexico to live because it is beautiful and cheap to live there if you have an adequate (US dollars) income. Mexicans come to the US to live for jobs with more income and/or because they feel like it is safer and less corrupt. The big draw for both groups, seems to be a higher standard of living, go figure.


There may be some US folks who go there because they feel it is safer or less corrupt than in the US but I am not aware of any.

BTW, You sound like am "intolerant, uninformed, entitled American" to me. Might add the words self-righteous hypocrite to that description to make it more accurate. So, which is it? You don't want more people like you up there? or you don't want more Americans/Canadians driving up prices?


Seems like a little contradiction here - If this were true, "Last thing I want is an invasive swarm of intolerant, uninformed, entitled Americans and Canadians", then I would disseminate " FEAR and Disinformation ... about Mexico". So, what is your intent?

[maddmaxx]

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

You sure think you know a lot about me based on four words and a few scalped pictures posted as much for entertainment value as anything else. Pro-tip: You know nothing about me. Maybe you should take a break from preaching respect long enough to actually display some.

I know very little about you.. never said I did. Not sure why you're so bent by my offense at ppl spreading fear porn based on a handful of pictures and a solitary article to brand a country/culture as evil?

Not that it really matters to me if you go there or not... One less short tempered hothead in paradise sounds like a win-win! You can keep your personal insults for those around you that care.. if any are left.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by maddmaxx

Aren't we a pious one today? I know enough Spanish to get by, just not fluent in it by any means. Understandably, that is 100% MY fault because a vast majority of my close friends are Mexican and it's just been too easy for me always having someone around to interpret if needed.

I see.... you think of Mexico as just a place to buy cheap trinkets to show your worldliness. I don't have that need... I go for the experience, culture, adventure, food, outdoors, and generally just because I love Mexico and the ppl who live there. Do I buy things? Ya, a token amount here and there just to support locals and I enjoy a good barter. However, currently my purchases are more focused on buying land/property, not Sombreros and blankets.

I appreciate you and others too afraid to go there due to fear... It has kept the Real Estate prices very affordable. Thx

I get it..... Your a good guy.


Just when I thought that buying cheap trinkets in Mexico would show my worldliness I find out that I could be like you and just buy "a token amount here and there just to support locals" (a token amount aka the least that you can get away with) and than you try to beat them down on the price because you " enjoy a good barter" What a swell guy. I didn't know what an ahole I was being buying trinkets. I wanna grow up and be like you. Did you buy that high horse you are on in Mexico too?

Now I totally understand your agenda - you have land to sell there. Gotta protect that investment.

[maddmaxx]

Originally Posted by ACamper

Less then 1-in-10 murders every get "solved" in Mexico. I stress the "less then"
Mexico- In 2018 their were 33,341 murder victims(bodies found) less then 3,000 people were ever arrested for these. The other 30,000 murdered victims were just picked up and buried end of story. Impunity. These are just the bodies found, it is estimated that 10s of thousands of bodies get buried, burned or dissolved in acid every year in Mexico leaving family members forever searching

The Entire World.. thinks Mexico is lawless.

Mexico 2018- 30 murders per 100,000
United States 2018- 4 murders per 100,000

I don't disagree with the raw numbers, however I do disagree with the conclusion that most draw from them.

In Mexico there is a war going on (similar to Columbia, Nicaragua in '80 and '90s). The VAST majority of these deaths are a result of the casualties of this war from rival cartels. However, they are counted as murders (not war casualties). If you did the same for various African countries, Yeman, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Croatia, Ukraine, Czech, etc. The statistics would be vastly different as to rankings.

Even in the US.. the 3,000+ ppl killed on 9/11 we're never included in the "murder rate" even though they were clearly murdered.

Can Mexico be dangerous? Sure. But use common sense, stay out of bad areas, dont walk down dark alleys at night, Don't flash jewelry or cash, stay out of seedy establishments, don't drive down in a brand new $80k+ truck, SUV or 4x4, respect their laws, etc and it's Alot safer than Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, etc...

Or on second thought 🤔....

..... OMG, stay away!!! Mexico is completely lawless and full of felons. If you go, there is only a 50/50 chance (at best) of you ever making it out alive!!! They will rape your wife, eat your children, kick your dog, all before chopping you up with a rusty machete and dumping you in a vat of acid.

Public Service Announcement: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND ALL THAT IS SACRED... PLEASE STAY HOME!

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by peteg59

I'd just as soon take my chances in not getting robbed by bad guys and/or the authorities, shot, killed or kidnapped by savage Mexican citizenry, and stay out of Mexico.
Too many bad reports on the news about foreigners traveling in Mexico only to have their trip unexpectedly interrupted changing their lives forever, and not in a good way.

But best of luck to anyone who goes there nowadays...

HEY, it's better than going to the Middle East, or so I hear, cheaper any way.

[peteg59]

Originally Posted by kidharris

HEY, its better than going to Iran, or so I hear

The travel costs alone would certainly favor that idea.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by maddmaxx

I don't disagree with the raw numbers, however I do disagree with the conclusion that most draw from them.

In Mexico there is a war going on (similar to Columbia, Nicaragua in '80 and '90s). The VAST majority of these deaths are a result of the casualties of this war from rival cartels. However, they are counted as murders (not war casualties). If you did the same for various African countries, Yeman, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Croatia, Ukraine, Czech, etc. The statistics would be vastly different as to rankings.

Even in the US.. the 3,000+ ppl killed on 9/11 we're never included in the "murder rate" even though they were clearly murdered.

Can Mexico be dangerous? Sure. But use common sense, stay out of bad areas, dont walk down dark alleys at night, Don't flash jewelry or cash, stay out of seedy establishments, don't drive down in a brand new $80k+ truck, SUV or 4x4, respect their laws, etc and it's Alot safer than Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, etc...

Or on second thought ��....

..... OMG, stay away!!! Mexico is completely lawless and full of felons. If you go, there is only a 50/50 chance (at best) of you ever making it out alive!!! They will rape your wife, eat your children, kick your dog, all before chopping you up with a rusty machete and dumping you in a vat of acid.

Public Service Announcement: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND ALL THAT IS SACRED... PLEASE STAY HOME!

"Even in the US.. the 3,000+ ppl killed on 9/11 we're never included in the "murder rate" even though they were clearly murdered."


Ok. granted, add in 9/11, the US number (using ACampers numbers should be more like 5 murders in 100,000 populatiion. Whats your point? It is dangerous in NYC? Terrorists from another country can still kill in the US and we should count that as US murders? Should we count US citizens killed in another country in too? How about the ones killed in Mexico - should we take them off of the Mexico count and add them to the US count? You are calling gang crime in Mexico a civil war?


Bottom line is no matter how you want to twist the definitions and play numbers games Mexico is still not a particularly safe place to be.


According to your rationalization and semantics .... does this make you a war profiteer buying cheap land to resell when the war is over? If I didn't know that Mexico was dangerous already, you would have just made me aware.


BTW, people usually leave war zones, not move into them. Oh, I get it. Are you trying to depress the land value even more?


What are you feeding that high house? he seems to be getting taller.

[Villacrooma]

There have been a lot of useless rants in response to this query, but no one seems to know the answer to this very sensible query: Is Mexican diesel hi-sulfur compared to US-spec diesel, and will that harm your engine?


Also no one seems to know anything about another basic question: What does local vehicle insurance cost?


I expect that the cost of mechanical repairs is low compared to El Norte, but has anyone had experience in finding spare parts for the more popular older skoolie platforms?

[BaconFarms]

Originally Posted by kidharris

HEY, its better than going to Iran, or so I hear

Ah, finally, full circle,

When I left the battlefield (Iraq) in '04, then retired from the Army in '08, to my surprise, three American hikers get apprehended in Iran, and held for ransom. We pay just shy of one million dollars to get there dumb-asses back to America.

First, I blame there stupidity on the school system for not teaching America exceptionalism.

Second, they need to pay back the million.

Dumbest quote ever, "lets go hiking in the middle east during a war"

My favorite quote, "Life is hard, its harder when you're stupid"

BaconFarms