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Old 04-10-2010, 10:03 AM   #1
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Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

I have been saying this for months now, and everyday I am more convinced, that my once outlandish notion is becoming reality. There is something fundamentally wrong with this country: the democratic process has halted; it has broken down. When people disrespect each other as people on either side of the political spectrum have, there is little hope that solutions or compromises may be arrived at.
My question is do you think this country is heading for a civil war- if so why and who will be the opposing sides? If no support that theory as to why it would not happen.
Personally I think we are heading for a civil war- here is my reasoning:
1. There is a clear distinction between those who want a more authoritarian/socialist nation versus those who want to preserve the capitalist/democratic America we live in.
2. There is a clear distinction between those who understand the principles and guidance and importance of the representative legislative process versus those who hide behind the Constitution as an excuse to create laws from the bench.
3. There is a clear distinction between those who favor strong national security vs. those who want a borderless, global government.
4. There is a clear distinction between those who hold US Constitutional principles dear (1st, 2nd, 10th Amendments in particular) and those who are ignorant or want to subvert those principles.
5. There is a clear distinction between those who want to maintain a sensible fiscal policy versus those statists in Washington who spend our tax money with reckless abandon.
6. There is a clear distinction between those who see themselves as Americans first versus those who want to segregate themselves into communities and ignore the national identity.
7. Despite his promises, surveys show that Americans have elected one of the most divisive Presidents since Richard Nixon.
These are serious issues that fundamentally challenge the formation of the Republic itself. Don't buy into the childish arguments that every criticism of the Federal Government is based in racism. That is ignorant and simple-minded talk.
Who will be the opposing sides- that is a simple question. I will use a slang term for the side that will oppose the gov. The "Bubbas" that being the primarily white rural people, sometimes called red-necks, hillbillies. Too which I belong in that group. The reason they (we) will oppose the US gov. is an easy concept. Most would assume tha it would be along racial lines- I just don't see that happening- yes there will be some tension- I just don't see that as a basis. The new administration sees the economic crisis as an opportunity to create a new bureaucracy, less accountable and more powerful than ever. This new bureaucracy is preparing to take charge in the areas of health care reform, urban affairs, energy policy and the fight against climate change. Each new government office signifies a massive claim against the well-being of every American. The fight against global climate change will put the country in an environmental stranglehold. Health care reform signifies the nationalization of 14 percent of the U.S. economy. And what is meant by “urban affairs”? It is a wealth transference program bound to demoralize the suburbs. Administration energy policy promises expensive, unworkable energy alternatives while ignoring enormous oil deposits recently discovered under Montana and the Dakotas. That is where the lines will be drawn- not along religious lines- although the gov will recruit some of the militias out there with chants of "democracy and god" it will be those that still suscribe to the words of Thomas Jefferson..."Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. "
The Obama administration is headed for failure on every front. The president has fended off dozens of law suits regarding his citizenship status, without producing a birth certificate to prove that he is a natural born citizen. He has refused to provide proof that he is in fact a natural born citizen, and his Kenyan relations say he was born in Nairobi at a time when his mother was too young to transmit U.S. citizenship.
The lines are being drawn, and we are headed for national tragedy. The country needs to wake up. Danger approaches, and it is coming on fast.
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:24 PM   #2
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

Life is a lemon and I want my money back!
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Old 04-10-2010, 03:41 PM   #3
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

It is extremely unlikely the militias will ever side with the treasonous federal "authorities" deliberately destroying our Republic, to create a "new world order" global government.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:39 AM   #4
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
The gov, a percentage of mil who will follow orders in violation of the Constitution, ditto with a percentage of LEO, The Mercenaries (XE =Blackwater) and whatever street gangs & thugs that can be recruited.........then REAL Americans who are past being fed-up with the **** a runaway gov is pulling, ALOT of current and ex-mil & LEO (Oathkeepers), The Militias, and an anyone else who gives more of a damn about their country (more than their life, which will become worthless), and their childrens and grandchildrens future, to be sure they live free as this country was founded to insure.

Smitty

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Smitty,

I read this twice yesterday and once this morning. I haven't a clue as to what you said??? When you sober up could you tell me again please?
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:01 PM   #5
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

I got that but what does your answer mean? I can't figure it out.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:28 AM   #6
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

HA SAVE ME MY ROOM UP THERE IN ALASKA,I HOPE TO BE HOME IN A YR OR TWO,,,, DAM THE LOWER 48..
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Old 04-12-2010, 03:05 PM   #7
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
The gov, a percentage of mil who will follow orders in violation of the Constitution, ditto with a percentage of LEO, The Mercenaries (XE =Blackwater) and whatever street gangs & thugs that can be recruited.........then REAL Americans who are past being fed-up with the **** a runaway gov is pulling, ALOT of current and ex-mil & LEO (Oathkeepers), The Militias, and an anyone else who gives more of a damn about their country (more than their life, which will become worthless), and their childrens and grandchildrens future, to be sure they live free as this country was founded to insure.

Smitty

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Hey Abbott and Emberglow
And the answer is....... The two sides
SIde one.....The gov, a percentage of mil who will follow orders in violation of the Constitution, ditto with a percentage of LEO, The Mercenaries (XE =Blackwater) and whatever street gangs & thugs that can be recruited

Side two......then REAL Americans who are past being fed-up with the **** a runaway gov is pulling, ALOT of current and ex-mil & LEO (Oathkeepers), The Militias, and an anyone else who gives more of a damn about their country (more than their life, which will become worthless), and their childrens and grandchildrens future, to be sure they live free as this country was founded to insure.

DUH
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:32 AM   #8
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

Sorry guys, I was without coffee yesterday. Today it is much more clear.
~Julie (not as dense as it might seem )[/quote]


No problem, Without coffee and a cigar I am.......well.... healthier, But alot less awake. I can't figure my density into it.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:26 PM   #9
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

I daily "thank my lucky stars" to be born in a "civilized" country. We get to be in that 20% that is privileged through no effort of our own. I, for one, am pleased to share it, as best I can figure, with the other 80%. Perhaps a Civil War would put a little less "pompous righteousness" into our souls . . .
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:38 PM   #10
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

I don't know about that. Why are some Americans so self loathing? We(america) the "pompous righteous" are the most generous when it comes to helping the rest of the world and our fellow neighbors. This world would be a sorry-ass place if not for this country. Unfortunately, Obama and his regime are destroying what made America great. Let me decide what I want to share with the less fortunate. The government has no right to decide that. As for civil war, its crazy to wish for it. But if it happens, I won't be on the side that stands for socialism/marxism, diversity, or political correctness.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:19 AM   #11
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

Quote:
Hey Abbott and Emberglow
And the answer is....... The two sides
SIde one.....The gov, a percentage of mil who will follow orders in violation of the Constitution, ditto with a percentage of LEO, The Mercenaries (XE =Blackwater) and whatever street gangs & thugs that can be recruited

Side two......then REAL Americans who are past being fed-up with the **** a runaway gov is pulling, ALOT of current and ex-mil & LEO (Oathkeepers), The Militias, and an anyone else who gives more of a damn about their country (more than their life, which will become worthless), and their childrens and grandchildrens future, to be sure they live free as this country was founded to insure.

DUH
The term "REAL Americans", I find this fascinating in it's awkwardness. The fact that you find it "obvious" also seems slightly odd or even a bit weird. I think a guy with such keen and unshakable knowledge should move away of an obscure Internet forum and head to the Beltway where he could do some real good for the people. I mean you truly do give a damn about your country and you could help those Americans "who just don't get it" see the light. You know, the millions of people who are raising their families and enjoying their lives.
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Old 04-14-2010, 10:31 AM   #12
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

I thought, in "America", the government is "us". . . My experience says there are 1/3 of it's voters strongly conservative, a 1/3 strongly liberal and the other 1/3 is either uninterested, uninformed or vote based along the lines of picking a horse race based on the cute name of the racer. The problem, as I see it, is we each typically surround ourselves with people most like us so we think "everyone" believes like we do. Somehow we manage to ignore the facts of election outcomes. If you wish to change our governments approach to it's governed then get involved. Learn how and when to influence the 1/3 in the middle. Or just complain . . . that, too, is your right in this country.
As to the likelihood of Civil War, I put it at next to nothing. Despite the short term issues we may seem to be suffering, the times have NEVER been better. Look at the "stuff" we own, the length of life we live, the opportunities we enjoy, the peace we've made . . . anything that matters. Our only goal should be to keep improving. I, for one, think that improvement should include all, regardless of their happenstance of birth.
Lincoln knew that our forefathers wished to keep our country mired in a class system. His efforts and many that followed have made huge strides to eliminated that within our borders. I'd be an even prouder American if we'd continue to push for similar changes outside, too. A selfless move who's time is near . . . ?
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:37 PM   #13
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott
The term "REAL Americans", I find this fascinating in it's awkwardness. The fact that you find it "obvious" also seems slightly odd or even a bit weird. I think a guy with such keen and unshakable knowledge should move away of an obscure Internet forum and head to the Beltway where he could do some real good for the people. I mean you truly do give a damn about your country and you could help those Americans "who just don't get it" see the light. You know, the millions of people who are raising their families and enjoying their lives.
I admit to all 3...awkward, odd and "a bit weird", always have been, likely always will be. I don't deny it, and never have...I just accept it. Now as far as being "a guy with such keen and unshakable knowledge", those are your words not mine. Perhaps I'll take your advice, move to Africa and become a Kenyan Citizen.....who knows, I may then come back & be the next POTUS

People either "get it" or they don't. Those who don't (or those who are part of the problem) always wish to demonize those who do. "Don't Tread on Me" flags & bumper stickers, NRA membership, owning guns, giving a damn that we're being robbed blind by our own gov........will now likely get you on a terrorist watch list somewhere now. Damn shame, seems like at one time those currently in office would have been the "bad guys" for what they're doing......now it's those who voice their disapproval of breaking laws and stomping Rights into the mud who are seen that way.

There are many people who try to spread the truth, most are mocked, called a nut-job, or something similar. lol...granted, some of them are (cough.. Alex Jones). I talked to others about "things" for a while. Most don't want to hear it, they think if they ignore it, it'll go-away. Well, that's the exact process that got us to where we are today, Subjects of a run-away government.

I'll share a "weird" premonition with you I had as a kid, and yes, I saw what was happening at a VERY young age. Anyway, I always felt that I would live to see this country taken back by the people. For the longest time I didn't think I would......now I think my odds are getting better daily Said it before, I've lived a full and "interesting" life. I could have died 25 years ago and not had a complaint, so where do you think that puts me now?

My Country, my Constitution, and my Rights.....you can steal my ****, knock my teeth out, lie to me.......but screw with those 1st 3? ........
Actually Smitty I wasn't responding to you, I was talking to Papbear. I honestly didn't understand your answer was about sides. I was surprised that you took the question as a jab, I guess it's just one of the difficulties of communicating on the Internet, I'm sure I do the same at times.

To respond to the above by you I will say that "awkward" was not saying I think you are awkward. My meaning is that why should you or Papbear define what is or is not a "Real American". Finding that awkward was a nice way of saying "Are you fecking nuts?" It's silly thinking that an individual can speak for (and define) who is and is not a "Real American" as opposed to a "Fake American maybe." Or are we talking zombies here? I guess you and Papabear's meaning is that anyone who disagrees with your point of view is not a Real American". That type of opinion is way out there.

As far as you being someone that is spreading the truth. Who's truth? Your truth...ok, but your point of view certainly isn't what millions of other folks see as "the truth". It's maybe the truth for a small right wing fringe that has some good points but it certainly isn't the be all end all of the America I live in. I am a pretty conservative guy and I do agree with some of your points. The fact that you think that people are either one of the enlightened or part of the problem is wrong. There is so much more to the story then the narrowness of your point of view and the fact that you consider yourself "enlightened" beyond question is beyond reasonable to others.

I know your a nice guy and I give you credit for being sharp as well and I bet we would be friends if we lived near one another. I have thought for awhile that you may spend your days listening to some extreme right wing radio personality or hang out on a like web sight or some such. Personally I can't stand Obama either and I think he is likely the worst president we have ever had but I do see some light at the end of tunnel. I don't have to live as a down trodden citizen because of him or his kind.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:34 AM   #14
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
Tell me something Abbott, what kind of canine do you see here?


That looks like a chihuahua in an Edgar suit

I don't consider illegal aliens as Americans. I would like to see the borders protected and the illegals and their children deported back to Mexico. I think the only reason the borders have not been protected is that the politicians fear the backlash of losing the Hispanic voting block. Where Bush was concerned I think it was businesses losing cheap labor. I will not be surprised if Amnesty becomes law.
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:47 PM   #15
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

The original post concerning who was a "Real American" and who was not read along philosophical lines to the point where sides were drawn up. It split Americans into two groups, those who agreed with a point of view and those who did not. After my reply you then brought up nationalities as a division. I haven't ever had a problem with illegal aliens being considered "Real Americans" as they are not. I also think children born to illegal aliens should not have citizenship but I don't see that entering in to any para-military style divisions.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:34 PM   #16
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott
Quote:
Hey Abbott and Emberglow
And the answer is....... The two sides
SIde one.....The gov, a percentage of mil who will follow orders in violation of the Constitution, ditto with a percentage of LEO, The Mercenaries (XE =Blackwater) and whatever street gangs & thugs that can be recruited

Side two......then REAL Americans who are past being fed-up with the **** a runaway gov is pulling, ALOT of current and ex-mil & LEO (Oathkeepers), The Militias, and an anyone else who gives more of a damn about their country (more than their life, which will become worthless), and their childrens and grandchildrens future, to be sure they live free as this country was founded to insure.

DUH
The term "REAL Americans", I find this fascinating in it's awkwardness. The fact that you find it "obvious" also seems slightly odd or even a bit weird. I think a guy with such keen and unshakable knowledge should move away of an obscure Internet forum and head to the Beltway where he could do some real good for the people. I mean you truly do give a damn about your country and you could help those Americans "who just don't get it" see the light. You know, the millions of people who are raising their families and enjoying their lives.
Heeey AAAAbbott
I, also was unsure of who you were addressing your comment to. I want to thank you for your own keen insight. I will say that I do belong to the same odd/weird group as Smitty. I do also have a little more factual information than the "average civillian" on some of the things our country would, and has asked of it's LEO's and military.
I will take the keen and unshakable knowledge as a complement, as many times in daily life I am reffered to as F****** stupid pig. (until I'm needed)
I digress, as I was only pointing out the two sides Smitty had commented on, which in your previous comment, you seemed truly dumbfounded to what he was speaking of. I would add that was all quoted from Smitty"s post, though I did not disagree with it.

If you are one of "the millions of people who are raising their families and enjoying their lives", that's fine. No problem with that at all. If you believe that nothing has changed for the worse, over the past 20 years or so, cool. If your cup is half full, well praise be to Allah akbar.
Are you old enough to remember the TV show Welcome back Kotter? When Vinnie would look up and say "What?"
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:39 PM   #17
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papabear
Are you old enough to remember the TV show Welcome back Kotter?
I'm old enough to remember a NARC officer out of Rock Springs that went by the name of "Geno". He and his buddies (LEO) kicked in my door once in Green River. A couple of years later the Sheriff out of Rock Springs murdered Geno in the back of the Sheriff's patrol car. That kept the NARC from testifying about the whore house the Sheriff and a Judge operated in Rock Springs, *shrug* Geno was an asshole anyway. I guess that's close enough to Welcome back Kotter.
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:22 AM   #18
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

Shucks Smitty, if I read that right, you complimented me as having qualities like a real American. Thanks!
Yeah, I'm one of those old school saps that will still catch the door for a lady, or elder, or child- hell, most anyone, really.
I feel like a stranger or worse in this, my country. No real good examples for my son, so I'm going to go hunker down and try and weather this storm down New Mexico way, where there still remains a bit of frontier justice, and you can stretch your arms out in the morning without whacking your neighbor in the head- if you have the notion. I'm not all that old- not even 40 yet, but my values are similar to my Grandad's, I suppose (I'd like to think, anyway).
I don't really like the idea of war, but some sort of wake-up sure would be appreciated.
After 911, this country's been in a manic/suicidal phase. It needs a shot of adrenaline, or a hug, or a punch in the nose, or SOMETHING. I wish I had some genuine answers that would help. I guess I'll have to settle for being a modern man-at-arms.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:27 PM   #19
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papabear
Are you old enough to remember the TV show Welcome back Kotter?
I'm old enough to remember a NARC officer out of Rock Springs that went by the name of "Geno". He and his buddies (LEO) kicked in my door once in Green River. A couple of years later the Sheriff out of Rock Springs murdered Geno in the back of the Sheriff's patrol car. That kept the NARC from testifying about the whore house the Sheriff and a Judge operated in Rock Springs, *shrug* Geno was an asshole anyway. I guess that's close enough to Welcome back Kotter.
WHOA ABBOTT, I feel some animosity here. How did you get all that out of "Welcome back Kotter"?
So you were in the county back in 78? Fast times then. There's a lot more to that story, and ya have a few facts wrong. It was Earl Dautsy that owned and and operated the Townsend club. Everyone in the county knew what went on there. Cantrell was a mean bastard of a Sheriff. And Rosa(NARC) was a disliked drunk.

Does knowing Rosa's street name have any coincidence to having a no knock warrant served on you? There had to have been a warrant. Even the jackboots can not go door to door doing entries without one. (Unless your ATF) City, County, State, federal? Don't leave me hanging here.

May I suggest a book written by Delbert Gray (Police, Politics and prejudices), on Rock Springs during that time. He was a young black officer on the force who shot and killed a drug dealer. But you might already know that also. He is still on the force and is running for Sheriff this term.
So, does this mean you have changed you opinion of me? Hope not. I felt we were just starting to warm up to each other and now you have sparked my interest.
Hell come to think of it, we might even know each other. PM me, and we can find out.

For your reading pleasue, actually there's a lot of info on the "Sin City"
http://law.jrank.org/pages/3311/Ed-Cant ... -1979.html

ANYWAY! back to the original dilema. I was mearly pointing out what Smitty said about the two sides. You ( by your own admission) were confused on the topic. Just trying to help.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:46 PM   #20
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Re: Are we headed for another Civil War in the US?

I don't have my facts wrong as I bet you may know or have an idea of the official story isn't accurate. What did that movie guy say? Yeah, "it's not what you know, it's what you can prove". I'm sure I don't have to talk to you about obscure county politics even when the FBI becomes involved as long as there were a couple of friendlies to write reports and testify I didn't like Mike either, nor did any of the other good ole boys, he was a coke head that was becoming/was addicted. That's how he drank so much. When he was on that **** and drunk he thought he was bulletproof. He sure didn't think they would have the balls to kill him, he had piss poor judgment.

Nah, there wasn't a search warrant, it was a private matter. A State Trooper had been killed a few weeks previous and everyone was going bat **** about it.

Yeah, I didn't get it, that's why I asked. I didn't realize that Smitty was talking "sides" because the subject matter was so far out in left...err I mean right field These survivalist scenarios do seem to fit this forum, I think they are fun

I don't have any animosity towards you or anyone else on this forum. BTW I am also ex-military.
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