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06-09-2015, 12:27 PM
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#1
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tomball, TX
Posts: 313
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9TA
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Attaching studs to sheet metal
What's the best way to attach the studs to the sheet metal? I'm a little concerned about leaks if I use screws. Would adhesives be better? What did yall use?
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06-09-2015, 01:58 PM
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#2
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,795
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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?? You would need very long screws to puncture the exterior sheet metal wall.
Typically the original walls are built like this: exterior sheet metal; metal ribs and crap insulation (about 2.5-3" thick); the interior sheet metal.
If you have removed the interior sheet metal (recommended) then you would re-insulate with something better and put "studs" horizontally on the ribs.
If the walls are staying original then you can screw right onto the interior sheet metal.
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06-09-2015, 02:51 PM
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#3
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tomball, TX
Posts: 313
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9TA
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So a 3" screw through my 2" stud should keep me from puncturing the wall? Is there any benefit to painting the interior walls/floor with bedliner when it comes to moisture protection?
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06-09-2015, 03:06 PM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,795
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Right. 1" into the interior sheet metal will not touch the exterior sheet metal.
If you're covering over the interior walls anyway, I'd advise prying a panel back to see what you're dealing with.
You may see the insulation (or lack thereof) and consider a different approach. Remember, insulation isn't only for cold climates. Insulation slows the transfer of heat both outward and inward. Hell, in Texas it's probably equally important to keep the interior cool in the summer as it is in Canada to keep the interior warm in the winter.
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06-09-2015, 04:38 PM
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#5
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: EHT New Jersey
Posts: 1,134
Year: 2003
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International 3000RE
Engine: T444E/AT545
Rated Cap: 75
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And here's what that crappy insulation looks like
My plan is to get rid of all of it and replace with rigid foam
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06-09-2015, 05:04 PM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,826
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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^yours looks nice compared to the batting that came out of mine. Mine was moldy and disgusting!
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06-09-2015, 06:06 PM
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#7
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tomball, TX
Posts: 313
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9TA
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I was thinking that I don't want to mess with the stock insulation or peeling back sheet metal. I was planning on framing the walls over the existing interior sheet metal and insulating that with some foam board.
What about insulating the floor? Do I just put foam board over the metal but below the plywood floor? That doesn't seem very sturdy?
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06-09-2015, 06:16 PM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,795
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austin1989us
I was thinking that I don't want to mess with the stock insulation or peeling back sheet metal. I was planning on framing the walls over the existing interior sheet metal and insulating that with some foam board.
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That works for a quick and dirty solution... Taking it apart is more work, but you'll end up with a better product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by austin1989us
What about insulating the floor? Do I just put foam board over the metal but below the plywood floor? That doesn't seem very sturdy?
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Rigid (as in XPS, the pink or blue stuff) foam with 5/8" or 3/4" plywood over top is incredibly strong.
You can lay cement over XPS, then vehicles over the cement. It's more than strong enough to support humans.
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06-09-2015, 06:24 PM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,826
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austin1989us
I was thinking that I don't want to mess with the stock insulation or peeling back sheet metal. I was planning on framing the walls over the existing interior sheet metal and insulating that with some foam board.
What about insulating the floor? Do I just put foam board over the metal but below the plywood floor? That doesn't seem very sturdy?
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Taking out the interior panels is a huge amount of work. But totally worth it.
You don't HAVE to. But like mentioned above- it will end up better as a result of all that hard work.
Foam under plywood is what many of us are using. Spray foam underneath the floors is another option.
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06-09-2015, 08:56 PM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tomball, TX
Posts: 313
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9TA
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Why is taking out the interior sheet metal better? Framing/insulating over the existing interior sheet metal gives me more insulation. But it may sacrifice an inch or two of interior width.
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06-09-2015, 09:08 PM
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#11
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,795
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austin1989us
Why is taking out the interior sheet metal better?
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Often the insulation between the original walls is damp. Essentially a sponge rotting away the bus from the inside out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by austin1989us
Framing/insulating over the existing interior sheet metal gives me more insulation. But it may sacrifice an inch or two of interior width.
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No, it's gives you less insulation for the amount of space used. You're looking at it backwards.
Let's say you put 3.5" inches thick insulation onto the original interior walls. If you removed the interior walls you could have put 6" thick insulation for the same distance wall-to-wall.
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06-09-2015, 10:18 PM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,826
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Plus you never know whats hiding behind that paneling...
See my thread. Many hours spent repairing the damage.
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06-09-2015, 11:05 PM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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The op needs to go read some build threads.
|It's all there waiting to be read. This has all been covered over and over and over again.
Spoon feeding info like this is a waste of every ones time, and does a poor job of explaining vary detailed topics.
So please OP, go do some reading here on this great site, and you will see in detail how to do most everything in 10 or more different ways.
There are pro's and cons to every different system and method.
To get you started.
http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f27/ar...rust-8870.html
http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/th...ime-10138.html
And a ton more where they came from.
Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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06-10-2015, 06:59 AM
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#14
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tomball, TX
Posts: 313
Year: 1988
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9TA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster
The op needs to go read some build threads.
|It's all there waiting to be read. This has all been covered over and over and over again.
Spoon feeding info like this is a waste of every ones time, and does a poor job of explaining vary detailed topics.
So please OP, go do some reading here on this great site, and you will see in detail how to do most everything in 10 or more different ways.
There are pro's and cons to every different system and method.
To get you started.
http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f27/ar...rust-8870.html
http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/th...ime-10138.html
And a ton more where they came from.
Nat
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Thanks for the info. I'll do some more looking around.
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06-10-2015, 07:22 AM
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#15
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Birmingham Al
Posts: 602
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Blue Bird
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster
The op needs to go read some build threads.
Nat
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I have read quite a few build threads, searched the site many times, and have yet to see any reference to attaching studs to anything, with any detail. Maybe I missed the post(s). So that was a trial an error thing for me, using every bit of my common sense and carpentry skill(which I acquired in trade for my Pet Rock collection). The Bespoke wall studs and cabinets are firmly attached, and have not come loose in almost 40 miles of driving so far, and hope they continue.
Like I said, I experimented with brackets, screws and other techniques, but would encourage you use the stud channels on the ceiling (where the rivets are located) as this seems to be much stronger than simple sheet metal (but what do I know?)
some pics
these are the screws I HIGHLY recommend - no threat of these penetrating the outer skin.
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06-10-2015, 11:07 AM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dredman
I have read quite a few build threads, searched the site many times, and have yet to see any reference to attaching studs to anything, with any detail. Maybe I missed the post(s).
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Go back to my first post and rear the two build threads I linked. Both have a ton of detailed pics.
That's because we run our studs horizontal, not vertical.
We call it strapping.
Far stronger, better system in every way.
The method you use will depend on skill, money, tools, and How long you want the bus to last.
I need my bus to last 30 to 40 years. Not removing the inside skin, rotted fiberglass insulation, rustproofing, ect will result in a bus that may only last 3 to 5 years.
Also many of these low buck, slapped togeather builds are the reason why most insurance companys will no longer insure skoolie conversions.
So folks, choose your method and live with it.
Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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06-10-2015, 11:13 AM
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#17
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,826
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dredman
I have read quite a few build threads, searched the site many times, and have yet to see any reference to attaching studs to anything, with any detail. Maybe I missed the post(s). So that was a trial an error thing for me, using every bit of my common sense and carpentry skill(which I acquired in trade for my Pet Rock collection). The Bespoke wall studs and cabinets are firmly attached, and have not come loose in almost 40 miles of driving so far, and hope they continue.
Like I said, I experimented with brackets, screws and other techniques, but would encourage you use the stud channels on the ceiling (where the rivets are located) as this seems to be much stronger than simple sheet metal (but what do I know?)
some pics
these are the screws I HIGHLY recommend - no threat of these penetrating the outer skin.
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The ceiling panels are very thin. Like 20 or 18 ga. I wouldn't want a whole lot of stuff screwed to them.
Different strokes for different folks, though.
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06-10-2015, 12:17 PM
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#18
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Birmingham Al
Posts: 602
Year: 2003
Coachwork: Blue Bird
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster
The method you use will depend on skill, money, tools, and How long you want the bus to last.
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Brother you nailed it there. Currently I lack all of the above, but mostly time. I may gut the entire bus at some point, I just can't do it the "right way" right now. I may not ever be able to do a conversion like some of you pros do, as I do not have the skills, and collecting the tools would require me to slow down and stop - which defeats the purpose of my mobile lifestyle. My guess is there are more people like me out there than people that have the amazing skills you guys have.
I would like to be able to share an alternative with the folks like me, that are OK with a half-assed camper build, in lieu of a Prevost-style conversion.
I wonder, how many other conversions there are like mine, not gutting the inside ceilings, or floors?
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06-10-2015, 12:44 PM
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#19
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,826
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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The majority don't do the gutting.
Its a LOT of work.
I'm not building a "prevost" but I want real insulation and I want the bus to stay together more than a year or so.
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06-10-2015, 01:16 PM
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#20
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: EHT New Jersey
Posts: 1,134
Year: 2003
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International 3000RE
Engine: T444E/AT545
Rated Cap: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
The majority don't do the gutting.
Its a LOT of work.
I'm not building a "prevost" but I want real insulation and I want the bus to stay together more than a year or so.
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Same here.
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