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Old 11-08-2016, 12:02 PM   #141
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take an old winter coat and put it over a shirt over a box of books or wood and have a shot - the birdshot won't do much regarding penetration, not enough mass to it. it's why for cowboy shooting where you shoot steel targets with 12g shotguns you need to use 7 and smaller shot - safety.

Which is the opposite of what you want for self defense.

And while a shotgun is a more legal choice than a pistol, it's longer so harder to manoevre in a tight space and you still have to aim at SD ranges - go look at the pattern it throws with buckshot or similar at say, 5-10 feet - the realistic distance you'll be facing a perp in a home or bus, 20 feet maximum - less than 7 yards.

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Old 11-08-2016, 12:36 PM   #142
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take an old winter coat and put it over a shirt over a box of books or wood and have a shot - the birdshot won't do much regarding penetration, not enough mass to it.
Thats why I aim for the face... Theres always all this discussion about caliber and ammo type, but I don't see anybody lining up to get blasted with birdshot. As someone who has seen gsw in person (.22, .32 and 9mm) I can tell you any firearm that goes bang will do the trick... Allegedly...
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Old 11-08-2016, 01:21 PM   #143
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And while a shotgun is a more legal choice than a pistol,
what do you mean "more legal"?
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Old 11-08-2016, 01:25 PM   #144
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Those would leave a mark. OUCH!
alternate loads of OO then one of these.



http://www.oathammo.com/content/imag...ckage_450.jpeg
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Old 11-08-2016, 01:30 PM   #145
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without a concealed carry permit AFAIK it's illegal to be able to reach a loaded gun, of any kind, while driving.

Now most, if not all, campgrounds I've been in ban firearms of all kinds. Now unless you're cleaning your gun 'on the front porch' whose to know?

the concern is something like this happening..which I know, 'never happens'..until it does.

Jackson: Gun owner unarmed, unwelcome in Maryland | TBO.com

short read - https://www.gunlaws101.com/article/v...le-journey-law
The part in red above is NOT true for Florida. Your gun (any legal gun) can be loaded and in your lap if securely encased such as in a holster with a snap strap holding it in the holster.
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Old 11-08-2016, 02:11 PM   #146
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Only need mine to protect and maim at about 25 ft, any farther than that and im hunting..lol
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Old 11-08-2016, 02:14 PM   #147
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alternate loads of OO then one of these.



http://www.oathammo.com/content/imag...ckage_450.jpeg
That is one crazy round, make ya bleed out.
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Old 11-08-2016, 04:27 PM   #148
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Get your orders in now...before the election gets tallied!

Armor piercing incendiary 12 gauge rounds for everyone!
12 Gauge Armor Piercing Incendiary - 3 Rounds Per Pack - G12-008
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Old 11-08-2016, 04:43 PM   #149
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Get your orders in now...before the election gets tallied!

Armor piercing incendiary 12 gauge rounds for everyone!
12 Gauge Armor Piercing Incendiary - 3 Rounds Per Pack - G12-008
All I need is my Finnish M39 and a spam can of 54R. I'm set.

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Old 11-08-2016, 06:51 PM   #150
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I have many handguns that would be illegal in some states - due to magazine capacity.
I have some semi- auto rifles that would also be illegal in certain states.

Never heard of any state making a shotgun illegal.

If you walk into the woods in PA in say, first week of december with semi rifle you could be in big trouble - it's deer season and we are the only state not not allow semi's for hunting.

Until a year or two ago the only way to hunt deer in ohio was with a shotgun, ALL rifles were banned. So a walk in the woods with ANY rifle during deer season would put one at risk for legal issues.


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what do you mean "more legal"?
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Old 11-08-2016, 06:53 PM   #151
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No permit needed?

PA is an open carry state - go ahead and walk down teh street with your peacemaker strapped to you side and you won't be bothered.

Wanna get in your car? concealed carry - you need a permit.


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The part in red above is NOT true for Florida. Your gun (any legal gun) can be loaded and in your lap if securely encased such as in a holster with a snap strap holding it in the holster.
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Old 11-08-2016, 06:55 PM   #152
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Exactly, and why would i need my shotgun while driving? my hands would already be full texting and dtinking my bloody mary..[emoji23]
Because you could be 100 miles from the border and reach a illegal check point that is against the constitution and decide its great day to die for all of us and shoot the place up. Finish your drink of course.
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Old 11-08-2016, 07:02 PM   #153
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Every kind of training for self defense i've ever had, seen or heard about says aim for the center of mass - body. Biggest and eaisiest to hit.

go shoot some IDPA and you'll find real fast htat heads are small. You need to take time to aim and the target best be standing very still to be sure to hit it.

first, ANY time you need to pull a gun to protext yourself will be a bit of surprise, right? Unexpected. Heart races. Mind races..decisions decisions..get it wrong and you can die..or go to jail and face large legal bills, and even if you get off it can suck.

So..how well do you handle stress? make life and death decisions under stress? Some people do fine - others not very well at all. Most of us never have a chance to be tested.

House catch on fire and you do what?
Someone has a medical emergency, how did you react?
Car accident and you did what?

Made the right decision, instantly, every time? No second guessing, no better choice could have been made?

Much easier to hide/conceal/present a hand gun, especially in a tight space, over a 25-30" shotgun.

yes, birdshot looks impressive - go shoot something SOLID with it - penetration counts for a lot - you stop someone with a hit to the central nervous system (unlikely) or make them bleed out. You gotta hit vital organs to do that.

I know some people that love the idea of Liberty Ammo - very very lightweight and fast wtih a huge hollow point. I've seen a 9mm go through a police vest in test, explode a ham in a test - but 70gr 2000fps has little mass. A 230gr 45ACP at 800 fps stops better. A 357mag stops better yet.

Reality is few people want to be shot, or shot twice - so they'll stop. BUT if you need to keep shooting to stop them...based on my attempt to kill a few critters in the yard (ground hogs, raccoons) with a 22LR I want about 100 round magazine! 10 just doesn't make you feel good when they're still coming at you and the gun goes click!

Thankfully it's small rodents and not a bear! or meth head.

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Thats why I aim for the face... Theres always all this discussion about caliber and ammo type, but I don't see anybody lining up to get blasted with birdshot. As someone who has seen gsw in person (.22, .32 and 9mm) I can tell you any firearm that goes bang will do the trick... Allegedly...
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Old 11-08-2016, 07:03 PM   #154
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I originally met the shot gun was the perfect gun because it can do so many types of hunting. If your not living full time in your skoolie a lot of people probably have guns at home locked up. What pain to bring all of them on a trip. I cant get my civil war cannon through the front door so it would have to be roof mounted.

I just misspelled civil war and the auto spell spelled isis? WTF is wrong with the world.

What we need is federal fishing and hunting licensee. Or am i crazy to think that I keep hearing the 2nd amendment is why we bare arms but if i don't have money for a hunting license i cant use my god given right to feed myself.

Did you know politicians taste like bacon. let em run all the way to market!
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Old 11-08-2016, 07:03 PM   #155
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http://www.solerslacklaw.com/Crimina...n-Law.aspx#car

In Florida you need a permit to carry concealed on your person.

No open carry, which I believe to be a stupid thing to do, your only telling a perp who he/she will chose as the first victim.

No permit required to transport a firearm in you vehicle, fully loaded with one chambered.
As long as it is "securely encased".
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Old 11-08-2016, 07:17 PM   #156
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In Florida you need a permit to carry concealed on your person.

No open carry, which I believe to be a stupid thing to do, your only telling a perp who he/she will chose as the first victim.

No permit required to transport a firearm in you vehicle, fully loaded with one chambered.
As long as it is "securely encased".
I think every one should have to open carry. Your not the first target, your the person there waiting to leave so its a gun free zone. Criminals don't engage with competent gun carrying people they look for people they can easily control. Concealing your weapon (i do) a lot of the time) makes me feel like I'm asking to to be part of a gun fight when they did not want me there more than I don't want to be in the fight either.
Guy walks into a bank every one is carrying #1 he dies or #2 he leaves either way were all safe and get to go home.
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Old 11-08-2016, 07:25 PM   #157
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Required open carry ain't gonna happen so....................
what if your the only one open carrying in that bank or (anywhere) waiting inline with your back to the door?
If they are committed to continuing their deed, your once again the first one they will subdue.
But to each their own. At least we still can carry in most states for now.
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Old 11-08-2016, 07:35 PM   #158
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reality...
Do you need to carry?

I've asked everyone and have yet to find anyone that has needed to pull, let alone fire, a gun in self defense. I've heard a few online talk about it. I read abot in the nRA magazine.

In my 54 years no need (so far, knock on wood).

First - choose to live in a good area. Second, don't go to the bad areas. Duh. My mommy told me not to go looking for trouble..good advice for life.

Ok, so you're what, mostly likely to be the intended target or a by stander? Since there's one target and 10 bystanders...a bystander. So you're in a 7-11 at midnight when the perp comes in to rob the place...you do what?

Hide. Back behind that big shelving unit. Let the perp leave.
Intervene. Pull you gun and advance on the perp with loud shouts to drop your gun.

Second sounds good in a movie and in a fantasy..but in real life why would a reasonable person do that? the reasonable thing, the prudent thing, is stay out of the way. Hide, so to speak.

So, the perp is 'attacking' you - who are you? A 40 year old 250 lb man? An 80 yr old woman wiht a cane? the old lady cna pull a gun and get away with it - you the big man can't, as you have other options - assuming he's not already pointing a gun in your face.

now..go try that, mr quick draw. No way you can draw and fire...and forget the shotgun in the overhead, you'll never get to it.

I know manyh people that carry - most don't carry at home -it's in a drawer. I know many many that have the gun in the bedroom. Better to have than not, sure, but if it's not within reach ALL THE TIME it's useless.

I see it the news all the time - someone forces their way in once you open the door (utility, fundraising, bible thumpers, in distress - lots of ruses to get teh door opened). Gun upstairs is as good as one a mile away.

The decision yuo need to make is are you gonna live in state of perpetual fear, prep and terror or not?

Since more people are killed in car accidents than by firearms it's best to just get a bigger bus!

Of course, today a 1000 year old lady pulled out in front of my bus...maybe it was an attempt at assisted suicide..assisted by her buick! LOL
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Old 11-08-2016, 07:36 PM   #159
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I doubt it - they'll leave and find a bank without a gun totin' customer in it.
I very much doubt they'll shoot you then continue the robbery as you bleed out.

Just a guess...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleO7 View Post
Required open carry ain't gonna happen so....................
what if your the only one open carrying in that bank or (anywhere) waiting inline with your back to the door?
If they are committed to continuing their deed, your once again the first one they will subdue.
But to each their own. At least we still can carry in most states for now.
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Old 11-08-2016, 09:32 PM   #160
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reality...
Do you need to carry?

I've asked everyone and have yet to find anyone that has needed to pull, let alone fire, a gun in self defense. I've heard a few online talk about it. I read abot in the nRA magazine.

In my 54 years no need (so far, knock on wood).

First - choose to live in a good area. Second, don't go to the bad areas. Duh. My mommy told me not to go looking for trouble..good advice for life.

Ok, so you're what, mostly likely to be the intended target or a by stander? Since there's one target and 10 bystanders...a bystander. So you're in a 7-11 at midnight when the perp comes in to rob the place...you do what?

Hide. Back behind that big shelving unit. Let the perp leave.
Intervene. Pull you gun and advance on the perp with loud shouts to drop your gun.

Second sounds good in a movie and in a fantasy..but in real life why would a reasonable person do that? the reasonable thing, the prudent thing, is stay out of the way. Hide, so to speak.

So, the perp is 'attacking' you - who are you? A 40 year old 250 lb man? An 80 yr old woman wiht a cane? the old lady cna pull a gun and get away with it - you the big man can't, as you have other options - assuming he's not already pointing a gun in your face.

now..go try that, mr quick draw. No way you can draw and fire...and forget the shotgun in the overhead, you'll never get to it.

I know manyh people that carry - most don't carry at home -it's in a drawer. I know many many that have the gun in the bedroom. Better to have than not, sure, but if it's not within reach ALL THE TIME it's useless.

I see it the news all the time - someone forces their way in once you open the door (utility, fundraising, bible thumpers, in distress - lots of ruses to get teh door opened). Gun upstairs is as good as one a mile away.

The decision yuo need to make is are you gonna live in state of perpetual fear, prep and terror or not?

Since more people are killed in car accidents than by firearms it's best to just get a bigger bus!

Of course, today a 1000 year old lady pulled out in front of my bus...maybe it was an attempt at assisted suicide..assisted by her buick! LOL
Hatchet-wielding man killed by customer at 7-Eleven | KOMO
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