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Old 11-09-2016, 06:34 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by prof.fate View Post
without a concealed carry permit AFAIK it's illegal to be able to reach a loaded gun, of any kind, while driving.

Now most, if not all, campgrounds I've been in ban firearms of all kinds. Now unless you're cleaning your gun 'on the front porch' whose to know?

the concern is something like this happening..which I know, 'never happens'..until it does.

Jackson: Gun owner unarmed, unwelcome in Maryland | TBO.com

short read - https://www.gunlaws101.com/article/v...le-journey-law
Not in TN, we amended the Castle law in June of 2014 which now covers your vehicle, handgun or long gun in vehicle is GTG.

Now public is a different animal, it is illegal to go with the intent to be armed in public,

SO get a hand gun permit, this allows concealed and open carry (not fan of OC, except on the farm)

Hopefully this spring we will vote constitutional carry in law

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Old 11-09-2016, 09:13 AM   #162
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All I need is my Finnish M39 and a spam can of 54R. I'm set.

Like this one
member the good old days when a 440 round spam can cost 86 bucks? They're actually getting hard to find from distributors now believe it or not... Saw one the other day they wanted 300 bucks for 440 rounds...
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:20 AM   #163
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Every kind of training for self defense i've ever had, seen or heard about says aim for the center of mass - body. Biggest and eaisiest to hit.

go shoot some IDPA and you'll find real fast htat heads are small. You need to take time to aim and the target best be standing very still to be sure to hit it.

first, ANY time you need to pull a gun to protext yourself will be a bit of surprise, right? Unexpected. Heart races. Mind races..decisions decisions..get it wrong and you can die..or go to jail and face large legal bills, and even if you get off it can suck.

So..how well do you handle stress? make life and death decisions under stress? Some people do fine - others not very well at all. Most of us never have a chance to be tested.

House catch on fire and you do what?
Someone has a medical emergency, how did you react?
Car accident and you did what?

Made the right decision, instantly, every time? No second guessing, no better choice could have been made?

Much easier to hide/conceal/present a hand gun, especially in a tight space, over a 25-30" shotgun.

yes, birdshot looks impressive - go shoot something SOLID with it - penetration counts for a lot - you stop someone with a hit to the central nervous system (unlikely) or make them bleed out. You gotta hit vital organs to do that.

I know some people that love the idea of Liberty Ammo - very very lightweight and fast wtih a huge hollow point. I've seen a 9mm go through a police vest in test, explode a ham in a test - but 70gr 2000fps has little mass. A 230gr 45ACP at 800 fps stops better. A 357mag stops better yet.

Reality is few people want to be shot, or shot twice - so they'll stop. BUT if you need to keep shooting to stop them...based on my attempt to kill a few critters in the yard (ground hogs, raccoons) with a 22LR I want about 100 round magazine! 10 just doesn't make you feel good when they're still coming at you and the gun goes click!

Thankfully it's small rodents and not a bear! or meth head.
Yep you're better and smarter and more experienced than everyone else ever... come on over here and I'll rub your boo boos and pat you on the head... You're such a special snowflake
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:26 AM   #164
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20+ years of competitive shooting in multiple disciplines and knowing a crapload of guys with guns, cops, etc.

And dealing with a whole bunch of people whose experience and knowledge of guns and self defense come from the movies, not real life.

I know cops with 30+ years on the job full time that have never had to pull their gun, let alone fire it.

Depends where you live I guess- I choose to live where **** don't happen..often anyway. LOL.

I have lived where it does - and since I have a choice I choose to avoid the evil in the world.

I've been in some of the worst areas - with no issues. Maybe it's how you deal with people? Luck? Randomness of the universe?

I know people that live drama filled lives and many that don't. Why is that?

the first time it's an accident, a mistake. the times after that? It's a choice, a decision.
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Yep you're better and smarter and more experienced than everyone else ever... come on over here and I'll rub your boo boos and pat you on the head... You're such a special snowflake
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:34 AM   #165
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I know cops with 30+ years on the job full time that have never had to pull their gun, let alone fire it. Save
I think your analogies are spot on.
How many times do we see in the news where cops had to fire their weapon, fire several dozen or hundreds of rounds.
And hit the intended target maybe six times?
When a situation actually happens, even trained LEO have much difficulty.
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:44 AM   #166
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Cops are notoriously bad shots - few shoot for 'fun' or whatnot - they practice with their weapon as much as say, their flashlight or handcuffs LOL.

there are studies out there - NYC did one and the avg shooting was 4 rounds.
Another guy studied every shooting he could find for 10 years and over 50% of the perps stopped when shot once.

Then he cataloged what they were shot with (caliber) and such. 357 magnum and rifles are true manstoppers. 380, 32, 22 are not even remotelly capable.

A good choice MIGHT me a 223 caliber pistol - i've shot 3 different ones and they look impressive (fire out the muzzle and all) but no recoil. Terribly unbalanced critters..bad one handed pistol, bad sights for two hand...

BUT for SD distances might just be the right choice.
Latest I shot was 2 weeks ago, a CZ Skorpion..same concept as 223 pistols but in 9mm..great choice if you believe the look of the gun will scare off the badguys!
CZ-USA CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 Pistol - CZ-USA

Rock River Arms: LAR Pistols .223/9mm

https://www.keltecweapons.com/pistols/plr-16/


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I think your analogies are spot on.
How many times do we see in the news where cops had to fire their weapon, fire several dozen or hundreds of rounds.
And hit the intended target maybe six times?
When a situation actually happens, even trained LEO have much difficulty.
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:47 AM   #167
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See, it's SOO different state to state..and who knows if they will treat you different as a citizen of the state or if you're from out of state.

I like my guns, my gun rights. I sure don't want to ignorantly run afoul and face the penalty of no longer being able to own a gun.

Or if it's felony lose my job. (i work with kids..gotta have a clean BG check to stay employed).

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Not in TN, we amended the Castle law in June of 2014 which now covers your vehicle, handgun or long gun in vehicle is GTG.

Now public is a different animal, it is illegal to go with the intent to be armed in public,

SO get a hand gun permit, this allows concealed and open carry (not fan of OC, except on the farm)

Hopefully this spring we will vote constitutional carry in law
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Old 11-09-2016, 10:57 AM   #168
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Maybe prices will come down and ammo be more plentiful with the latest turn of events.
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Old 11-09-2016, 11:15 AM   #169
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That would be interesting - and good!

Prices have held steady for 4 or 5 years now..availablity seems to have sorted itself out except maybe for 22LR..still dont' see muhc selection there.

Our junior rifle team had to get air rifles for practice as we couldn't get 22LR ammo for them.

got everything needed to loan my 9mm and shotgun for next year last week - no shortages or compromises, no looking around to find anything either.
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Old 11-09-2016, 11:54 AM   #170
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The main attraction with concealed carry is that the bad guys don't know who is armed and this tends to prevent many in-your-face crimes. Criminals move from hold-ups and home invasions to theft where no one is around.

I have a permit but rarely actually carry since I live in a pretty safe area, but when I see someone open carrying I go into high alert. What is the average non-gun person thinking when they see some guy walk in with a gun strapped on? Lots of high anxiety moments I'd bet.

To me, concealed carry is far superior to open carry.
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Old 11-09-2016, 12:24 PM   #171
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The next phase will involve bad guys stalking open carriers, coming up from behind with a sawed off shotgun...and stealing their pistolas.
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Old 11-09-2016, 12:31 PM   #172
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I've met only 1 open carry person and he says he's never been hassled (a black man in white america? hard to believe). Met him in a walmart.

Was working years ago in a restaurant and a friend that is a pizza joint manager that carries (higher than average risk so I get it) and his shirt rode up when seated for dinner and half the staff (ok..mostly young women..not to be sexist just an observation) wanted to call the cops.

So yeah, not sure the good or bad of it.

I have a friend that is hard-assed about carrying - 100% no matter what. If he can't carry, he won't go there.
So...no beach vacations, no NYC, no ball games..how exactly he got his concealed carry permit or drivers license I don't know..can't carry there. Or how he goes to his kids' school functions or picks them up from school.
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Old 11-09-2016, 12:32 PM   #173
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What we need is federal fishing and hunting licensee.
Tenth Amendment - Reserved Powers.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
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Old 11-09-2016, 12:35 PM   #174
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The next phase will involve bad guys stalking open carriers, coming up from behind with a sawed off shotgun...and stealing their pistolas.
I read a news story of that very thing happening recently. If I recall it was in Florida.

Something to be said for "situational awareness". Open carry should be done with open eyes.....
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Old 11-09-2016, 12:37 PM   #175
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The feds get around that all the time - gasoline tax..if your state follows the federal laws (bike helmets, seatbelts, etc) then they get their tax money back.

Blackmail? Sure.

You have a constitutional right to carry a gun, right?
But ANYONE with private property can take away that right.

You can't carry in fed or state buildings, schools or Costco, most campgrounds...and anyplace else that puts up a sign that says 'no guns allowed'. And there are criminal penalties for breaking that, um, sign.

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Tenth Amendment - Reserved Powers.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:37 PM   #176
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Old 11-09-2016, 03:11 PM   #177
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The feds get around that all the time - gasoline tax..if your state follows the federal laws (bike helmets, seatbelts, etc) then they get their tax money back.

Blackmail? Sure.

You have a constitutional right to carry a gun, right?
But ANYONE with private property can take away that right.

You can't carry in fed or state buildings, schools or Costco, most campgrounds...and anyplace else that puts up a sign that says 'no guns allowed'. And there are criminal penalties for breaking that, um, sign.

They certainly do! Pisses me off!

If I dig iron ore in my back yard, smelt it and use it to build a firearm. All without leaving my property. I will have violated numerous Federal laws most based upon the Fed's ability to regulate interstate commerce......

I get what you are saying about private property. I see it a little differently.
You cannot tell me that I cannot carry a gun. You can tell me that if I am carrying a gun that I am not welcome on your property. If I enter your property anyway then I am trespassing. My right to carry remains intact but my freedom and/or health could suffer......

FWIW: We can carry open or concealed (CPL) in city county & state buildings, some schools and Costco without breaking any laws. The big exception is courtrooms & jails.

I would be headed for trouble though if I failed to comply when asked to leave Costco while open carrying...... And I expect they would ask.

I do open carry at times just to try to educate folks that it is "ok" and I thank and encourage others that I see responsibly carrying. So far, I have never been asked to leave a business because I was open carrying.
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Old 11-09-2016, 03:57 PM   #178
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You can build your own firearms without a license; just not for resale. Look into 80% receivers - no ffl to purchase and perfectly legal to use. You finish the casting into a usable receiver with no paperwork and no NICS check. I've built two "ghost guns" so far.

With Mr. T in the white house, the supreme court and, by extension, the constitution should be safe for a while.
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Old 11-09-2016, 04:24 PM   #179
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You can build your own firearms without a license; just not for resale. Look into 80% receivers - no ffl to purchase and perfectly legal to use. You finish the casting into a usable receiver with no paperwork and no NICS check. I've built two "ghost guns" so far.

With Mr. T in the white house, the supreme court and, by extension, the constitution should be safe for a while.
Good point. My info is outdated but you get the idea. It is quite easy to violate Federal laws based upon interstate commerce without leaving your own yard or spending any money.

How about planting a seed, growing a plant and consuming the plant? All without ever leaving your own property. Depending on the plant you may have just committed a Federal felony.

I was shocked to disbelief watching the election coverage. I had given up....

I know that Trump at least pays lip service to the 2nd Amendment. Lets hope that he really means it. And, if we are really lucky, he may take notice of the 10th Amendment as well....
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Old 11-09-2016, 06:38 PM   #180
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I'm of the opinion that America just dodged a major bullet with this election. A hillary win would have packed the supreme court and not long after that began rewriting the constitution beginning with the 2nd. Our borders would have been thrown open even more than they are now and soon we wouldn't recognize the place. Religious freedom looked to be on the chopping block too.

I think we'll be surprised how well Trump performs and get the impression that his crazy-ass campaign was all an act. Fingers crossed that he'll actually get something good done.
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