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04-07-2020, 05:33 PM
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#1
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New Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 9
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Classifying Shorties
Hello there,
I am headed towards purchasing a short bus to live in full time. I know that I want a short bus, for the maneuverability and ability to park in one or two parking spots, not to mention gas savings and I simply don’t need a full size. I am thinking 5-6 window.
In my searches I have basically come across two types: van cutaways, essentially a Ford E450 or GM 3500 equivalent with a bus body on it. On the flip side there are small versions of actual school buses. I am thinking of the Bluebird(or Freightliner?) c2 buses with 6 windows or something like a TC2000. I’d like to hear what people think of the differences, benefits and drawbacks of these different designs.
To my eyes, this is how the designs stack up:
Cutaway style-Pros
Smaller
Gasoline engines(easy to work on)
Cheap and widely available replacement parts
Lower total bus height
Easier to go incognito and park
Full size style-Pros
More space inside and along undercarriage for all sorts of things
Diesel engines(more efficient, last longer, more power?)
Heavy duty parts, much longer lasting
More headroom, taller total bus
I think that the drawbacks of the designs are readily apparent. I have seen some sentiment around that cutaway designs are not desirable, but they seem fine from an outsiders perspective. I’d love to hear from people with a solid understanding of these machines.
Much appreciated!
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04-07-2020, 05:55 PM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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van vs bus.
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04-07-2020, 06:20 PM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
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Thanks CB for marginalizing shorties. Same as my friend who says if it’s not diesel it’s not a bus. Whatevers...
Shorties can be diesel too.
You’re pretty much spot on in your assessment: cutaways cheaper, plentiful parts, harder to work on = more labor expense if not doing yourself.
I opted for a cutaway to get around smog regulation.
But there’s benefits too, like being under the maximum length to park on the street.
I think that the biggest drawback is lack of real estate under the bus. I further complicated this with poor planning, installing under body tool boxes before I had a solid plan. I’ve had to get really creative to solve the problems caused by lack of under body space, like having to relocate the AC condenser to the passenger side to have grey and black tanks on the correct side for RV parks and dump stations. I also had to get creative to fit both tanks in such small space. After dealing with these challenges I revisited bus tour videos to find that many didn’t have bathrooms or relied on composting or portable toilets.
I also have minimal storage inside, but this is mainly caused by my desire to not blank any windows and have a jumbo sized bathroom and queen sized bed.
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04-07-2020, 07:06 PM
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#4
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo
Thanks CB for marginalizing shorties. Same as my friend who says if it’s not diesel it’s not a bus. Whatevers...
Shorties can be diesel too.
You’re pretty much spot on in your assessment: cutaways cheaper, plentiful parts, harder to work on = more labor expense if not doing yourself.
I opted for a cutaway to get around smog regulation.
But there’s benefits too, like being under the maximum length to park on the street.
I think that the biggest drawback is lack of real estate under the bus. I further complicated this with poor planning, installing under body tool boxes before I had a solid plan. I’ve had to get really creative to solve the problems caused by lack of under body space, like having to relocate the AC condenser to the passenger side to have grey and black tanks on the correct side for RV parks and dump stations. I also had to get creative to fit both tanks in such small space. After dealing with these challenges I revisited bus tour videos to find that many didn’t have bathrooms or relied on composting or portable toilets.
I also have minimal storage inside, but this is mainly caused by my desire to not blank any windows and have a jumbo sized bathroom and queen sized bed.
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NOT marginalizing. One is LITERALLY a van. I like vans. I don't like working on them.
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04-07-2020, 09:58 PM
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#5
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 375
Year: 2003
Chassis: Chevy cut-away 6-window shortie
Engine: 6.0L Gasser
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One benefit of a cutaway is that the VIN often turns up just a Chevy 3500 Van or Ford F450 Van, which makes basic liability insurance a lot easier to obtain. That was a major plus for me - I was able to add the short bus directly to my current insurance policy. That said, being in NJ, it doesn't pay to have full coverage for me, so I'm not worried about dealing with trying to get full RV/whatever insurance. If I did, after a year or two, it'd be cheaper to throw out the bus and start over if there was an issue rather than maintain full insurance coverage. Thanks NJ for being just about the worst priced insurance around...
Chris
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04-07-2020, 10:00 PM
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#6
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 375
Year: 2003
Chassis: Chevy cut-away 6-window shortie
Engine: 6.0L Gasser
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One of the major downsides that you touched on is the weight capacity. When I had everything emptied out, including the ceiling and walls, I had only 3000 lbs to work with before I hit GVWR. I'm keeping it simple and will probably still be tight on weight when all is said and done. A mini bus, not a cutaway, would probably have a couple tons more buildout capacity.
Chris
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04-07-2020, 10:43 PM
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#7
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
NOT marginalizing. One is LITERALLY a van. I like vans. I don't like working on them.
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Haha, just funnin. I like wrenching, but I don’t look forward to working on mine either. All cars should have cowls.
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04-07-2020, 10:52 PM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,831
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farok
One of the major downsides that you touched on is the weight capacity. When I had everything emptied out, including the ceiling and walls, I had only 3000 lbs to work with before I hit GVWR. I'm keeping it simple and will probably still be tight on weight when all is said and done. A mini bus, not a cutaway, would probably have a couple tons more buildout capacity.
Chris
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I’m on the same bus. I’m probably going to have 1000 pounds to spare when I’m done. I didn’t even consider that until I used my bus to do dump runs. I’m curious to know how that stacks up against truck-bodied buses.
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04-07-2020, 11:04 PM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo
I’m on the same bus. I’m probably going to have 1000 pounds to spare when I’m done. I didn’t even consider that until I used my bus to do dump runs. I’m curious to know how that stacks up against truck-bodied buses.
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My last bus I weighed had a gross of 34k and actual weight of 18k.
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04-08-2020, 11:26 AM
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#10
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New Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo
Thanks CB for marginalizing shorties. Same as my friend who says if it’s not diesel it’s not a bus. Whatevers...
Shorties can be diesel too.
You’re pretty much spot on in your assessment: cutaways cheaper, plentiful parts, harder to work on = more labor expense if not doing yourself.
I opted for a cutaway to get around smog regulation.
But there’s benefits too, like being under the maximum length to park on the street.
I think that the biggest drawback is lack of real estate under the bus. I further complicated this with poor planning, installing under body tool boxes before I had a solid plan. I’ve had to get really creative to solve the problems caused by lack of under body space, like having to relocate the AC condenser to the passenger side to have grey and black tanks on the correct side for RV parks and dump stations. I also had to get creative to fit both tanks in such small space. After dealing with these challenges I revisited bus tour videos to find that many didn’t have bathrooms or relied on composting or portable toilets.
I also have minimal storage inside, but this is mainly caused by my desire to not blank any windows and have a jumbo sized bathroom and queen sized bed.
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Thanks Danjo. Those are some good points, I hadn’t considered the smog regulations with a diesel. Yes that definitely is my concern, lack of space under the bus. I don’t plan on using a black tank, I’ll likely head the composting toilet route, so that’ll save some space, but thanks for the heads up. I’ll take some time to see how others have managed that space.
I’d rather not blank any windows either, but might go with a smaller bed and bathroom.
Sounds like cutaways are a pain to work on? Makes sense given the small amount of space to fit everything in. I’m somewhat mechanically apt, so I hope to do most of the work myself.
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04-08-2020, 11:32 AM
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#11
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New Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farok
One benefit of a cutaway is that the VIN often turns up just a Chevy 3500 Van or Ford F450 Van, which makes basic liability insurance a lot easier to obtain. That was a major plus for me - I was able to add the short bus directly to my current insurance policy. That said, being in NJ, it doesn't pay to have full coverage for me, so I'm not worried about dealing with trying to get full RV/whatever insurance. If I did, after a year or two, it'd be cheaper to throw out the bus and start over if there was an issue rather than maintain full insurance coverage. Thanks NJ for being just about the worst priced insurance around...
Chris
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I see, that’s definitely a plus when it comes to insuring. Worth keeping in mind!
Wow, didn’t realize the weight limits were so tight. That shouldn’t be too much of an issue, I plan on going pretty basic, but I wonder if that will make it difficult to store tools under the bus or if that will make things to heavy.
Where do you weigh the bus? I’m in WA state, besides the dump I don’t know anywhere with scales available for the public.
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04-08-2020, 11:43 AM
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#12
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 541
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: TC/2000
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12-valve
Rated Cap: 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozz20
Where do you weigh the bus? I’m in WA state, besides the dump I don’t know anywhere with scales available for the public.
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Try https://catscale.com/ to see if there is a scale near you
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04-08-2020, 12:43 PM
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#13
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 375
Year: 2003
Chassis: Chevy cut-away 6-window shortie
Engine: 6.0L Gasser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaBus
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That's the first place I weighed the bus. Since then, we realized our local coal dealer is the place to go (since we now tow our coal trailer with the bus). The empty trailer adds about 30lbs tongue weight, so I consider that insignificant.
If you don't have a CAT scale near you, check junkyards, dumps, quarries, etc. that would have a scale to see if they would let you weigh the bus.
Chris
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04-15-2020, 03:47 PM
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#14
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New Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4
Year: 2008
Chassis: Chevy 3500
Engine: Duramax Diesel 6.6 L
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Chevy 3500
Hi there,
We have a 2008 Chevy 3500 and really love it for some of the reasons you mentioned. It's a diesel and gets decent mileage (13-16mpg), and is 6'5" for headroom. We've been able to do easy maintenance (oil change), but have not attempted anything big. It ALMOST fits into normal parking spaces, so really great for incognito camping. I'd highly recommend this design
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