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Old 10-05-2005, 04:48 PM   #1
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cool article on biodiesel lubrication qualities

I just read an interesting article on biodiesel related to it's use as a lubricating agent in injectors and pumps. The gist of the article is that as the EPA restricts the amount of sulfer and other aromatics in diesel the lubricating qualities of diesel go down proportionally. I had been warned of this previously and it was suggested that a quart of motor oil be added to my 40 gal tank with each fill up to preserve the injector and pumps. with the addition of minimum 2% biodiesel you retain enough lubricant qualities to preserve your expensive injectors and pumps. here's the link to the article, thought you might find it interesting.

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/f.../Lubricity.PDF

The website also lists places you can buy biodiesel from the pump but I don't live anywhere close. Bakersfield CA is the nearest metro area to me and it was built on oil and rednecks so not expecting to see any real soon
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Old 10-05-2005, 07:46 PM   #2
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I just checked on soybean oil spot prices. 24.31 cents per pound. That works out to roughly $1.83 per gallon. Cheaper than diesel!

Of course, you have to buy 60,000 pounds at a time! That's about 8,000 gallons, and would cost a bit under $15,000.

That's good to know about the motor oil. I'm thinking of converting my bus in the near future, and I'll remember to put a quart of motor oil in every 50 gallon tank.

Reckon you can use filtered USED motor oil? That's free, too!
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Old 10-05-2005, 07:54 PM   #3
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trentet -- go back and read that again. I just had to read it several times before I got it (I think).

Quote:
“….we have tested biodiesel at Stanadyne and results indicate that the inclusion of 2% biodiesel into any conventional diesel fuel will be sufficient to address the lubricity concerns that we have with these existing diesel fuels . From our standpoint, inclusion of biodiesel is desirable for two reasons. First it would eliminate the inherent variability associated with the use of other additives and whether sufficient additive was used to make the fuel fully lubricious. Second, we consider biodiesel a fuel or fuel component—not an additive…Thus if more biodiesel is added than required to increase lubricity, there will not be the adverse consequences that might be seen if other lubricity additives are dosed at too high a rate.” The reasoning behind
They're saying biodiesel makes existing diesel more lubricious, not the other way around. They recommend adding 2% biodiesel TO the 98% diesel fuel.

Which makes me feel better about planning to run straight WVO.

EDIT... Wait, I misread what you said. You're saying add 2% biodiesel to WVO, and you'll have enough lubricity?

I gotta read everything again.
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Old 10-05-2005, 11:01 PM   #4
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I don't know if it is true but I have heard some old truckers say motor oil has more sulfur. So adding it will do some good as far as lube. My great uncle who is a retired trucker/diesel mechanic always filters his motor oil and adds it to his tank in small quantities. He has over 200k miles on his dodge truck and the egine runs great.
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Old 10-05-2005, 11:38 PM   #5
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ok, here's what I was trying to say

The article stated that adding 2% biodiesel to traditional diesel fuel will improve lubricity. The gist is that traditional diesel, as is, has too low a lubricity at this time due to the removal of sulfur for EPA requirements. This situation is going to get worse as EPA requirements become more strict. I have been dealing with this situation by adding a quart of motor oil to the tank before I add a full tank of regular diesel fuel. I don't have access to biodiesel, mores the pity, because I live in redneck central of California. I don't want to deal with the mess of filtering and heating vegetable oil and running it through my bus so the free fry oil option is out. As to purchasing lots of soybean oil there is still the issue of converting it to biodiesel. You see biodiesel isn't just the veggie oil itself but that oil with the glycerin stripped out of it using a process that involves either propane or methane. I read an article once in a sci fi magazine about it. Apparently you can convert any fat to biodiesel animal or vegetable by using this method. If you are interested in the article I can cut it out and post it.
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Old 10-06-2005, 09:32 AM   #6
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I've heard of putting transmission fluid in diesel but I never heard of using motor oil. Has anyone else heard of this or was I misinformed?
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Old 10-06-2005, 12:12 PM   #7
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In Minnesota, you will soon not have a choice - all diesel will be required to add 2% biodiesel. My understanding is that at that concentration, it won't attack the older rubber fittings.....

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Old 10-06-2005, 11:45 PM   #8
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Yes some use ATF to lube and help keep the injectors clean.
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Old 10-12-2005, 02:53 PM   #9
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I see what the article is saying now. Running straighth WVO or bio-diesel should be plenty lubricous. I'm hoping to start a WVO conversion soon, but to only use WVO for a few months. Then I hope to set up a small batch processing biodiesel refinery that would allow me to process about 25 gallons of biodiesel a week.

I was pricing the SVO for use as straight fuel, without refining. Refining it would add about another 40 to 60 cents per gallon (based on purchasing methanol in the neighborhood of $2.00 per gallon...again, buying in bulk...over 200 gallons at a time).
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Old 10-12-2005, 03:31 PM   #10
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but once you pull the glycerin out you can make it into soap pretty easy..then you can clean up the mess you made *S*
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Old 10-12-2005, 05:26 PM   #11
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Actually, I'm wondering what to do with the glycerine and free fatty acid by products. I understand that the FFAs can be used as a strong degreaser, so maybe the donor restaurant would be interested in it. The glycerine can be distilled to get a substantial portion of the methanol back, which further purifies the glycerine (of methanol). I have no idea what to do with raw glycerine. Make a ton of soap? I don't bathe that frequently!

The glycerine and FFA byproducts should rougly equal the volume of methanol added to the WVO for cracking, or about 20-25% of the initial volume. If you're cracking 25 gallons a week, you're looking at about 6 GALLONS a week of stuff you have to get rid, and somehow I don't think either a landlord or the sanitation department would cotton to having 6 gallons of soapy chemical byproducts dumped into the sewers every week. The glycerine, could probably be held until there was enough to sell it to a commercial renderer, but where you gonna store a couple of hundred gallons of glycerine?

I can see it now....

Neighbor: "Whatcha got in tha barrels?"

Me: "Glycerine that I get from cracking WVO."

Neighbor (to cops): "This crazy dude who lives in a bus is making crack and nytroglycerine...."

Ay, Chihuahua! I do not like the idea of having tear gas fired into my bus while I am asleep at night!
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Old 10-12-2005, 08:52 PM   #12
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On one of the Yahoo groups about building waste oil heaters somebody built one that burns glycerine. I think the group is called "wastewatts" Others were just burning it in a barrel to get rid of it.
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Old 10-13-2005, 04:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
The glycerine, could probably be held until there was enough to sell it to a commercial renderer, but where you gonna store a couple of hundred gallons of glycerine?
Quote:
Others were just burning it in a barrel to get rid of it.
Perhaps Lapeer could use it for his "Burning Man Bus Flame Thrower" (does that sound like something from a Frank Zappa song, or what) attachment of his jacuzzi?

Quote:
I can see it now....

Neighbor: "Whatcha got in tha barrels?"

Me: "Glycerine that I get from cracking WVO."

Neighbor (to cops): "This crazy dude who lives in a bus is making crack and nytroglycerine...."

Ay, Chihuahua! I do not like the idea of having tear gas fired into my bus while I am asleep at night!
Like I said. . . there goes the neighborhood. . .
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Old 10-13-2005, 07:15 PM   #14
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http://www.biodieselsolutions.com/pr...uelmeister.asp

this would help you guys out look it over you can make fuel at about 70c a gallon. and there is a chemical you can get for it so it doesnt gel works like staybil for gas.

i plan to use this setup once i get the bus. i first saw this on trucks tnn the best part is you can put this stuff in your stock fuel tank it mixes.
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Old 10-14-2005, 09:44 PM   #15
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biodiesel just seems too labor intensive for my taste. I said somewhere before that it would be much more practicle for a diesel VW that gets 50 mpg. With a bus that gets 7 or 8 miles to the gallon, you'd spend all week just trying to create enough fuel for the weekend.

By the time you invest you time and money into making special tanks and getting the entire operation rolling smoothly, you could have easily installed a 2nd heated tank into your skoolie and be burning wvo without having to go through all the hassle of creating bio-diesel buying the associated chemicals, and finding a place for the waste products......

just my opinion.....

Summer of 2004 I was burning on average 50 gallons of wvo a week in my skoolie. After a short period of R&D, the entire process was realitively painless. With my new setup, I can pump veggie oil at a faster rate than i can get diesel fuel from a large over-the-road nozzle. (of coarse i do have the extra time involved in setting up the pump) I can easily pump several gallons per minute.

Wintertime is a different story however......
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Old 10-14-2005, 11:19 PM   #16
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I agree with Lapeer about biodiesle. If I had a diesel car or even pickup it would be worth it to me. I want to get a big tank when I get a bus. Then I can really cut travel expense. I would rather build a tank heater than a whole bio processor for that much fuel.
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Old 10-15-2005, 09:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
On one of the Yahoo groups about building waste oil heaters somebody built one that burns glycerine. I think the group is called "wastewatts" Others were just burning it in a barrel to get rid of it.
Hmmmm.... I could heat the bus with glycerine...

Quote:
biodiesel just seems too labor intensive for my taste. I said somewhere before that it would be much more practicle for a diesel VW that gets 50 mpg. With a bus that gets 7 or 8 miles to the gallon, you'd spend all week just trying to create enough fuel for the weekend.

By the time you invest you time and money into making special tanks and getting the entire operation rolling smoothly, you could have easily installed a 2nd heated tank into your skoolie and be burning wvo without having to go through all the hassle of creating bio-diesel buying the associated chemicals, and finding a place for the waste products......
Good point. I'm planning on starting with the WVO conversion...soon, in fact! I was looking at used tanks on salvage equipment at a heavy equipment yard. I found a 50 gallon rated capacity tank (58 gallon nominal) for $75 bucks.

Lapeer, I'm going to go back over the info you have posted on your conversions. Is it okay if I e-mail you through the website with questions when (not if) I get stumped?
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Old 10-15-2005, 10:11 PM   #18
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absolutely you can e-mail me with questions.


i'm no expert when it comes to veggie, but i've converted 2 buses and my mercedes benz all with homemade kits, so i have a good idea when it comes to the basics.
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Old 10-16-2005, 04:34 PM   #19
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i'm no expert when it comes to veggie, but i've converted 2 buses and my mercedes benz all with homemade kits, so i have a good idea when it comes to the basics.
That sounds like an expert to me!
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