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Old 06-01-2020, 05:07 PM   #1121
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
No one's naming parties or WHICH leadership. We're literally being as gentle as we can not to talk about the "emperor's new clothers".
Criticizing the gov't and leadership during a pandemic shouldn't be so surprising. We'd be total SHEEP not to!
Thinking one party has unilateral ownership of patriotism is a very dangerous and selfish way of thinking.
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
sorry... im not a trump lover.. nor am i a Liberal.. (im one of those in the middle hated by all)... but I dont feel theres much leadership.. not on COViD-19 nor on this..



pulling away from the rerst of the world when it comes to Covid seems like the wrong thing to do.. Covid isnt a chinese virus.. its EVERYONE's virus..


yeah i'll go away now because this is supposed to be no politics and i'll just make it works like i always do..
I am way more in agreement with you guys than you might think. Overall leadership in general sucks. The mob mentality seems to be fueled more by stupid people than anything else. I will again fall back to one of my favorite Tommy Lee Jones quotes - "A person is smart, people are dumb!"

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Old 06-01-2020, 05:37 PM   #1122
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I found 2. Bakersfield, Ca. & Miami, Fl. However I also found 6 more of the Democratic affiliation.
None of US are here to push party agendas.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:22 PM   #1123
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Since moving to Australia 8 years ago, I've been amazed at how little politics really matters. Here we think about politics and government policy once or twice a year when its time to assess performance and vote to keep or change the leadership. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a perfect place, and has the same manner of over-regulation, inequality, political corruption, fascism and stupidity, but playing politics is never an excuse for NOT GOVERNING.


Now with COVID19, I am sadly watching my homeland self-imolating under the strain of decades of crappy leadership that has been primarily about screwing the people who didn't vote for them with an overtly political agenda. One of the brilliant things Australia does is REQUIRE voting. What that does is keep the hardcore political fringes at bay because everyone votes, and the big middle of opinion won't support a hard core agenda in any direction. It also reduces "politics" to a minor factor in everyone's life- namely, what shade of mostly centrist government to choose from time to time. In the US, politics has become both a substitute for sports, social order and entertainment, and a lens through which EVERYTHING is filtered and understood. What a horrible way to be and relate to each other...


So how does that shake out with the Corona Virus? Well, our center-right government snoozed and backpedaled a little more than New Zealand, but quickly responded appropriately. Unemployment was doubled and extended six months. Everyone got a break on utility bills. Schools, borders, businesses, airlines, EVERYTHING closed for two months but now have gradually and CAREFULLY reopened. Testing and contact tracing were quickly established, and now ramping up fast to every nursing home resident and abbatoir worker. Need a test? Call your doctor for a referral, then drive to a test center. All run cheaply by the government and free to the public.



We are getting back to our lives, gradually. Total death count in the whole country: 103, mostly traced to cruise ships, international air travel and a couple of nursing homes. That's what happens in a country well run by professional bureaucrats and government servants the people largely trust, and who aren't politicking their asses off with every decision. Government isn't a dirty word here. More like a necessary evil, but now much more necessary than evil.



I am very sad to see what is happening in the US. My mother is 90, her boyfriend(!) is in a nursing home, one sister is compromised and lives in a group home, and none have seen each other in 3 months. Another sister is a social worker in a Michigan hospital, under all kinds of stress and risk. Where is the government that won WWII, built the Interstate Highway System and put a dozen men on the moon? Bungling, bullshitting and bickering while a September 11 load of people dies every two days and cities are burning. It just breaks my heart.


Everything has become stupidly and falsely "political." Wearing a mask is a civic responsibility, and refusing to do so makes you a hazardous jackass, not a member of some party persuasion. Demand better of yourselves, your peers, your leaders. Live as if the whole world needed your best from you, because it does. There's still so much of that still right on the surface all the way out here in Western Australia, but it seems buried under layers of abstract loyalties and "social" (antisocial) crap at home. People here aren't any different than Americans, just A LOT less political and far more interested their government's performance than what they say on TV. Makes it easy to be nicer to each other, too.



PLEASE all of you go out and vote for professionals who promise to put the nonstop rancor aside and go about taking the helm to quietly run the country for the benefit of its people, their universal and rather simple non-political needs, and the lives you all need to get back to. Don't be a sucker for somebody playing to YOUR politics. Tone it down in yourself, and simply demand competent government above any other agenda. If they fail choose others quickly, and don't give it too much thought. If it makes you too angry, get involved in governing however it suits you. That's how democracy was designed.



Do it for my mom and my sisters, and so one day I can bring my daughters home and drive them all around in a Skoolie, showing them the many marvelous corners of the place I love like no other.


Stay safe & be well,



Tom
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Old 06-02-2020, 04:31 AM   #1124
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Old 06-02-2020, 05:01 AM   #1125
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Since moving to Australia 8 years ago, I've been amazed at how little politics really matters. Here we think about politics and government policy once or twice a year when its time to assess performance and vote to keep or change the leadership. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a perfect place, and has the same manner of over-regulation, inequality, political corruption, fascism and stupidity, but playing politics is never an excuse for NOT GOVERNING.


Now with COVID19, I am sadly watching my homeland self-imolating under the strain of decades of crappy leadership that has been primarily about screwing the people who didn't vote for them with an overtly political agenda. One of the brilliant things Australia does is REQUIRE voting. What that does is keep the hardcore political fringes at bay because everyone votes, and the big middle of opinion won't support a hard core agenda in any direction. It also reduces "politics" to a minor factor in everyone's life- namely, what shade of mostly centrist government to choose from time to time. In the US, politics has become both a substitute for sports, social order and entertainment, and a lens through which EVERYTHING is filtered and understood. What a horrible way to be and relate to each other...


So how does that shake out with the Corona Virus? Well, our center-right government snoozed and backpedaled a little more than New Zealand, but quickly responded appropriately. Unemployment was doubled and extended six months. Everyone got a break on utility bills. Schools, borders, businesses, airlines, EVERYTHING closed for two months but now have gradually and CAREFULLY reopened. Testing and contact tracing were quickly established, and now ramping up fast to every nursing home resident and abbatoir worker. Need a test? Call your doctor for a referral, then drive to a test center. All run cheaply by the government and free to the public.



We are getting back to our lives, gradually. Total death count in the whole country: 103, mostly traced to cruise ships, international air travel and a couple of nursing homes. That's what happens in a country well run by professional bureaucrats and government servants the people largely trust, and who aren't politicking their asses off with every decision. Government isn't a dirty word here. More like a necessary evil, but now much more necessary than evil.



I am very sad to see what is happening in the US. My mother is 90, her boyfriend(!) is in a nursing home, one sister is compromised and lives in a group home, and none have seen each other in 3 months. Another sister is a social worker in a Michigan hospital, under all kinds of stress and risk. Where is the government that won WWII, built the Interstate Highway System and put a dozen men on the moon? Bungling, bullshitting and bickering while a September 11 load of people dies every two days and cities are burning. It just breaks my heart.


Everything has become stupidly and falsely "political." Wearing a mask is a civic responsibility, and refusing to do so makes you a hazardous jackass, not a member of some party persuasion. Demand better of yourselves, your peers, your leaders. Live as if the whole world needed your best from you, because it does. There's still so much of that still right on the surface all the way out here in Western Australia, but it seems buried under layers of abstract loyalties and "social" (antisocial) crap at home. People here aren't any different than Americans, just A LOT less political and far more interested their government's performance than what they say on TV. Makes it easy to be nicer to each other, too.



PLEASE all of you go out and vote for professionals who promise to put the nonstop rancor aside and go about taking the helm to quietly run the country for the benefit of its people, their universal and rather simple non-political needs, and the lives you all need to get back to. Don't be a sucker for somebody playing to YOUR politics. Tone it down in yourself, and simply demand competent government above any other agenda. If they fail choose others quickly, and don't give it too much thought. If it makes you too angry, get involved in governing however it suits you. That's how democracy was designed.



Do it for my mom and my sisters, and so one day I can bring my daughters home and drive them all around in a Skoolie, showing them the many marvelous corners of the place I love like no other.


Stay safe & be well,



Tom
Thank you, mate.

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Old 06-02-2020, 06:55 AM   #1126
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this is one thing that I have wondered about in the USA is voting be a requirement.. even if you fill out a ballot to say you dont want to vote for any of the candidates.. just to participate..



both parties will say in this country that an elections are lost not won.. meaning its not that voters go vote for the other guy, its that they fail to be captivated by your guy and simply stay home..



then I believe that to be the case for a lot of things.. I really believe right now with covid that people fail to be captivated.. every news show, every social media post, every tv commercial, every conversation you had with anyone you did see out and about.. nothing but covid.. has caused people to say "whatever.. im over it".. which obviously the virus doesnt say "ok im over it.. im outta here"..



the election cycle in the US gets that way with all the mud slinging. it comes to a point where you say "cant we just vote and get this over with?".. so hasty decisions are made or people simply just dont vote at all...
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Old 06-02-2020, 07:34 AM   #1127
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I hope we're still allowed to vote by mail, like in previous elections.
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:36 AM   #1128
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Originally Posted by TomA View Post
Since moving to Australia 8 years ago, I've been amazed at how little politics really matters. Here we think about politics and government policy once or twice a year when its time to assess performance and vote to keep or change the leadership. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a perfect place, and has the same manner of over-regulation, inequality, political corruption, fascism and stupidity, but playing politics is never an excuse for NOT GOVERNING.


SNIP...
Stay safe & be well,



Tom
Well said -- Thanks.

Quote:
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I hope we're still allowed to vote by mail, like in previous elections.
As with too many things -- the potus speaks -- nothing actually changes except your blood pressure...

It IS a State's right how voting is conducted w/in the State. No Republicans or Democrats have changed anything about voting because of what the potus spoke that I'm aware of...
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:43 AM   #1129
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Well said -- Thanks.



As with too many things -- the potus speaks -- nothing actually changes except your blood pressure...

It IS a State's right how voting is conducted w/in the State. No Republicans or Democrats have changed anything about voting because of what the potus spoke that I'm aware of...
funny thin is- those criticizing voting by mail... vote by mail.
absentee ballots have been standard for quite a while.
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Old 06-02-2020, 10:31 PM   #1130
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Best article I've seen on Georgia covid cases. The embedded video is pretty decent too. Bottom line: the governor claims everything is fine and all the experts cautiously and politely say he's wrong.


The data from the last two weeks is "incomplete" because of how Georgia is choosing to report data - they make it look like it's decreasing when it's not. It looks like what actually happened is new positives started declining a few days before shelter in place ended, then continued to decrease for a few days after. Now, it's spiking up and probably already higher than the previous high and on a steady upward trajectory. So far, we only have a few days of complete data showing the rise - it should be undeniable in about a week.

Meanwhile, the overall number of hospital patients continue to decline, BUT the number of new admissions is going up... In other words, the promising data that the governor claims tells us this is all over is actually saying the opposite.

https://www.13wmaz.com/mobile/articl...a-6e22960ba5ba
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Old 06-03-2020, 07:36 AM   #1131
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Put the ballot on the back of everyone's income tax that they fill out at the end of the year. Then watch the politically uninvolved change their mind.

My county just hit 217 cases/7 deaths/40,000 residents. It's pretty high compared to other places but we have a rather large meat processor that got hit, and most of the deaths have come from a local nursing home that is also infected.

Everybody that I'm close with is still uninfected(knocks on wood).
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:00 AM   #1132
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For the time being, rural America is the safest place to be. My county is about 10,000 residents. We have only had 3 positive residents, and one truck driver passing thru that was positive, but sent back home. The 3 were all the same family that caught it on a trip to California before all the lock down started. We haven't had a positive test in over a month.
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:35 PM   #1133
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We've had at least 60k confirmed cases now in FL. 2700 in the last two days.
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:00 PM   #1134
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We've had at least 60k confirmed cases now in FL. 2700 in the last two days.
Dang! 2700 in 2 days! I guess that beach party got little out of hand!
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:44 PM   #1135
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Cases are up but deaths are continuing to lower.. as with any disease the highest risk often are the first to get severe cases.. ..most all deaths are tested either before or after death.. cases are going up in a lot of areas because the tests per day are going up.. more areas are finding aymptomatic cases.. people that never get sick but are carriers and can spread.. THIS is what masks are for.. so these carriers dont spread as easily..



other treatments (hydroxy is out.. gilead drug helps the most severe as well as some vascular treatments as they find the diease in some people resides in the blood vessels first before the lungs.. and treating it there can help keep it from going fatal)..



we are 7 days into the protests.. this is day 8.. watching for spikes in states with large cities is important to the outdoor abilities of it to spread.. its been observed and talked about from cell and media video that the masking rate has been about 50-60% on average throughout the protests...
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Old 06-04-2020, 04:05 PM   #1136
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Cases are up but deaths are continuing to lower.. as with any disease the highest risk often are the first to get severe cases.. ..most all deaths are tested either before or after death.. cases are going up in a lot of areas because the tests per day are going up.. more areas are finding aymptomatic cases.. people that never get sick but are carriers and can spread.. THIS is what masks are for.. so these carriers dont spread as easily..



other treatments (hydroxy is out.. gilead drug helps the most severe as well as some vascular treatments as they find the diease in some people resides in the blood vessels first before the lungs.. and treating it there can help keep it from going fatal)..



we are 7 days into the protests.. this is day 8.. watching for spikes in states with large cities is important to the outdoor abilities of it to spread.. its been observed and talked about from cell and media video that the masking rate has been about 50-60% on average throughout the protests...
There are several protesters testing positive already.
And there's a FL man who was a prominent virus denier who is now in icu and so is his wife. They're now letting folks know covid isn't fake.
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Old 06-04-2020, 04:22 PM   #1137
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we are 7 days into the protests.. this is day 8.. watching for spikes in states with large cities is important to the outdoor abilities of it to spread.. its been observed and talked about from cell and media video that the masking rate has been about 50-60% on average throughout the protests...
I'm actually very interested to see if the spread rate will be noticeable from all these large 'gatherings.' I am also curious why the far out rural areas like mine are still relatively untouched by this. I would guess the masking rate around here is much closer to 15-20%, even with the elderly population. I have also seen plenty of examples over the last 2 months where people have traveled when they shouldn't have, and gathered in large groups. I suppose all we can really do is speculate, I doubt we will ever know the truth. Truth seems to be such a fleeting concept these days.
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Old 06-04-2020, 04:33 PM   #1138
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There are several protesters testing positive already.
And there's a FL man who was a prominent virus denier who is now in icu and so is his wife. They're now letting folks know covid isn't fake.
History is full of these types of examples. Getting burned by the fire isn't real until you get burned by the fire. Having lost 2 cousins, one Aunt and one Uncle since January shows me how real the possibility of this is. Only one of these deaths is officially labeled Covid. All 4 had underlying medical issues, and are from metropolitan areas.
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Old 06-04-2020, 05:40 PM   #1139
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We've had at least 60k confirmed cases now in FL. 2700 in the last two days.
What's your hospitalization rate? Ga's numbers are so wacky it's hard to track but someone in the Georgia specific subreddit is doing a good job of correlating the data. Our hospitalization rate has stayed down since reopening, even as cases go up. I won't posit why but it seems a good thing.

I think with flattening the curve (and this ties into what Cadillac was saying) is keeping vents and beds available for those who are sick, so they don't die as quickly and have time to recover.

I delivered into South Carolina last week for a while. So many more masks at the gas stations than here in Ga. I am often the only one in a Parker's wearing one, and there's usually a line of ten or twelve guys in safety vests getting chicken fingers for their lunch break.

I'm not taking my mask off before next year. I have no idea if I could spread it to you and not know it, so I will be as careful as possible.
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Old 06-06-2020, 07:55 AM   #1140
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My current thoughts:

Hand washing, masks, and the "three C's" work. closed spaces, crowded places, and close-contact settings. You also need limited travel with areas suffering an outbreak.

If you can convince the population to do all those things, and then do a lot of testing and contact tracing, you can lower the R0 of the virus significantly (average number of new people each person infects). If you do all these things as a society, then your number of new cases per day will stay basically flat instead of growing exponentially. If these countermeasures were put in place early (like Japan or New Zealand), or if they were implemented after a successful shelter in place (like China or South Korea), then a country can avoid ever having serious virus problems again.

If you don't do these things, the numbers will keep shooting up until your entire health system is overwhelmed and you have catastrophic video of people crowded into hospital beds in stadiums while a few harried nurses try to do what they can... Once the numbers get too high, the only thing to do is to "shelter in place" to bring it down. The number of confirmed tests will spike about two weeks after a shelter in place is implemented, ICU patients will spike about 4 weeks later, and deaths will spike 4-6 weeks later.

In Georgia, we spiked at about 750 cases a day. The shelter in place brought us down to about 400 cases a day, but it's climbing again. The current rate is about 650 a day and growing. The number of ICU patients has kept going down, but looks like it's bottomed out and is starting to rise again. Deaths will do the same soon, as these are lagging indicators. Most of the state thinks this is over and are not taking any precautions. With the protests, the numbers will start accelerating again.

If no vaccine were to be created, 80% of the population would get the virus. Communities that did lots of mitigation would take several years, while those that did little would get there quickly.
Of those infected, 50-80% would be assymptomatic. Of those with symptoms, between 0.2% and 3.4% would die. Run the numbers, and you're looking at over a million U.S. deaths. The longer this goes on, the more likely you are for the virus to mutate until there are multiple strains and it never completely dies out.

I'm low risk. So is my wife and my children. Most Americans are too. If our entire family got the virus, it's possible that none of us would show symptoms and we'd never know. if somebody had symptoms, they'd probably be mild. However, like everyone else, we have people we love that are high risk or extremely high risk. Left unchecked, we will all have loved ones die. I don't see much of a need to mitigate for my personal safety, but I'm going to do everything I can to slow the spread for my friends and family.

So, since we don't have a national unified leadership pushing hand washing, masks, and the three C's, what's next? Will there be a second shelter in place? It would be significantly more costly than the first. Businesses would fail, people would be economically ruined, and our governments wood be saddled with so much debt they couldn't recover. More than likely, we'd let things get as bad as we could stomach. Interestingly, most reporters would be too scared to want to go into coronavirus wards and the editors would be reluctant to publish too much that would "inflame" the population. And, our politicians would spread misinformation to try to look good. Meanwhile, the peaks in deaths are weeks after a shelter in place is started. In other words, we'd know things were bad, but the gutwrenching visuals would be delayed. We're months away from facing that crisis and we can ignore it in the meantime. Hell, we could avoid ever having a crisis at all if we could just follow effective mitigation strategies...

So, since our people won't mitigate, what next? Our only real hope is a vaccine. Several governments including ours have spent billions manufacturing untested vaccines. Companies are rushing through testing, likely avoiding any strict oversight. At the end of this year, our government may tell all of us to receive one of these vaccines. It is easy to predict the whisper campaign... "It doesn't really work." "It has xxx awful side effects.". "It's not really a vaccine at all, it's xxx." But, once the vaccine gets out there, it'll slow the spread even if many people refuse to take it. And, ultimately, it'll be what gets this under control. Hopefully, the first generation of vaccines work. Otherwise, this could go into next Spring, or Summer, or who knows. Right now, I'm optimistic about vaccines.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-...ockdown-2020-5
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