COVID-19 | Effects on Skoolies - No Politics please.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by TomA

Well, the view from afar out here in Western Australia is interesting.

The virus in Florida is spiking among the migrant farm workers, who are completely underserved by government at all levels because they are "invisible" in America. Doctors Without Borders have been treating them, for Christ's sake. They will no doubt bring the virus north through Georgia to the Carolinas with the annual harvest, and be equally "invisible" there as they are in Texas, California and elsewhere.

The virus in also blazing through the working poor (who happen to be people of color and latinx) because they are also underserved and largely "invisible" to the political class. This is exactly what happened in Singapore, where the virus was quickly tamped down but quietly raged among the Indonesian immigrant community who live "invisibly" five and ten to an apartment and do so much of the manual labor in the country. Fortunately there aren't millions of them.

It is fascinating that these underclass workforce populations, who turn out to be as "essential" to the economies as the food they put on the peoples tables and the garbage they collect from their homes are the hard nut of keeping contagion under control. Just wait until HHS has to come clean about the infection rate in the pens where they are holding illegal immigrant detainees, but I digress. Prison populations are a whole other kettle of fish unique to the US, managed "invisibly" by profiteers with no incentive to solve the problem.

COVID-19 is like a dye marker that finds all the cracks in a culture and shows what kind of society you really have. That's why Europe is doing so much better than the US in controlling the infection- because they don't have as much and many types of hidden populations that get so little in resources, health care and government attention. In Australia we complain often and bitterly about how high minimum wages are and how much it costs to provide everyone health care and decent housing and all manner of support and attention- but when the chips are down we don't have to worry that we have whole industries and legions of people who are structured into higher vulnerability and will spread the virus without a colossal (impossible) task of taking care of them under the worst of circumstances.

COVID-19 is like a UV light shining on the United States, revealing all the ways the country divides people, resources, wealth and everything else, and just how awfully many people are underserved and can't access the benefits of living in a wealthy first world country, despite the critical role they may play feeding its people and fueling its economy, with no real hope of protecting themselves from sickness and death. It would be a Herculean lift to make a dent in that problem, especially with a mismanaged and tanked economy.

Much easier to demonize them and blame them for everything, which is what I thoroughly expect the next political play will be from the federal, state and local leaders that have dropped the ball at every opportunity so far. Ignoring them was the play until now, but the virus is shining through the happy talk and bs ever more brightly. You're really going to have your hands full with these "leaders" if you can't get their hands off the controls in November.

The view from afar is discouraging, indeed. I feel for you all, as I do my 90 year old mom in Illinois who eats every meal alone, and will probably have to for a long time to come. They don't call these things plagues for nothing...

Stay safe & be well,

TomA

Don't believe the FL headlines. Its not migrant farm workers driving this spread. They were yesterdays excuse from the governor. Its his inaction that's the real problem. Today's excuse is "Its just young people spreading it, not anything to worry about".

You're totally right on all the rest! Man you said all that so well, too.

[Biscuitsjam]

TomA, I've always found it fascinating what narratives other countries give for America's problems. That is 180 degrees different than how most Americans perceive the issue, but it has some truth to it.

There are two main narratives here in the states:
1. This isn't a big deal, not much worse than the seasonal flu. I don't know anyone sick, the hospitals aren't really full, and the media is blowing this out of proportion for ratings and to score political points. The increase in numbers is just due to an increase in testing and doesn't really represent more people sick. Most folks who get it are asymptomatic anyway, and except for the very old and very ill, the rest of us aren't in much danger. Why wear masks and be silly? If it was a big deal, wouldn't more people condemn the protests?

2. The virus is spreading because certain political leaders are spreading mixed messages and confusing people. We are working against each other and in danger of having our hospitals overwhelmed by cases as a result. Each of us has an individual responsibility to be good neighbors and prevent the spread to more vulnerable populations by not getting sick. To do that, we should avoid crowds, wear masks, wash hands, and reduce our social circle. But, by the way, the protests in this country are for such an important cause that we shouldn't discourage protest crowds.

[Biscuitsjam]

Originally Posted by banman

It's weird but...

Why would somebody even be in an ICU bed if they didn't require intensive care?

There are patients who do not need interventions like respirators, etc., but those patients can benefit from the round-the-clock visits from nurses in the ICU. In an emergency, they can be moved to another ward, but their best chance of survival is in the ICU.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Biscuitsjam

TomA, I've always found it fascinating what narratives other countries give for America's problems. That is 180 degrees different than how most Americans perceive the issue, but it has some truth to it.

There are two main narratives here in the states:
1. This isn't a big deal, not much worse than the seasonal flu. I don't know anyone sick, the hospitals aren't really full, and the media is blowing this out of proportion for ratings and to score political points. The increase in numbers is just due to an increase in testing and doesn't really represent more people sick. Most folks who get it are asymptomatic anyway, and except for the very old and very ill, the rest of us aren't in much danger. Why wear masks and be silly? If it was a big deal, wouldn't more people condemn the protests?

2. The virus is spreading because certain political leaders are spreading mixed messages and confusing people. We are working against each other and in danger of having our hospitals overwhelmed by cases as a result. Each of us has an individual responsibility to be good neighbors and prevent the spread to more vulnerable populations by not getting sick. To do that, we should avoid crowds, wear masks, wash hands, and reduce our social circle. But, by the way, the protests in this country are for such an important cause that we shouldn't discourage protest crowds.

You always sum it all up so damn eloquently.

[TomA]

Originally Posted by Biscuitsjam

TomA, I've always found it fascinating what narratives other countries give for America's problems. That is 180 degrees different than how most Americans perceive the issue, but it has some truth to it.

There are two main narratives here in the states:


1. This isn't a big deal, not much worse than the seasonal flu.

Sadly, this narrative is entirely mistaken. COVID-19 is about to become the single largest cause of death in the US. It is already bigger than cancer, respiratory disease, accidents, EVERYTHING but heart disease. In less than six months. How long will the virus kill more Americans than anything else? No one knows. Could be a year or two. That's no seasonal flu. There is also a significant amount of permanent disability in the recovered. This will become clearer as many more millions find just out how much worse than the seasonal flu this virus turns out to be...

Originally Posted by Biscuitsjam

2. The virus is spreading because certain political leaders are spreading mixed messages and confusing people. We are working against each other and in danger of having our hospitals overwhelmed by cases as a result. Each of us has an individual responsibility to be good neighbors and prevent the spread to more vulnerable populations by not getting sick. To do that, we should avoid crowds, wear masks, wash hands, and reduce our social circle. But, by the way, the protests in this country are for such an important cause that we shouldn't discourage protest crowds.

This narrative is largely correct. The way I see it, the virus is exploiting the pre-existing condition of social mistrust and incompetent leadership which renders the US population a particularly susceptible target to its strengths. I consider this a natural phenomenon. Social organization is natural in humans, like bees and many other species. A hive of bees that sets its guards on each other instead of intruders, fails to protect its workers and production and can't secure its honey store is going to suffer far more damage from outside threats than one that is well organized and focused on reality and survival. In the US, this outside natural threat is mulled over in human social terms as a political/communication/media/economic problem. To the virus, we are just the fat, lame zebra on the open plain. The other zebras are running away. We are talking amongst ourselves about whether, why and who should be in control. Mother nature doesn't care how human beings organize themselves socially, just what they do as a result. The social organization in the US is proving naturally disastrous. The whole world is watching, and not all of us in horror.

Politically, as an aside, it remains to be seen how the street protests contribute to the contagion, but as in all aspects of deciding whether that game (reigning in a broken policing system) it is worth the candle (more infection.) Its a better game than spending a day at the beach or a football match, which both cost the same candle, but again that's for the public to decide. There is little doubt the protests have been effective at starting federal, state and local government action on a problem that's been festering for decades. In that sense, just like the virus, civil disobedience is working reliably and as predicted.

There are street protests all over the world now, BTW. We will see how the cost/benefit shakes out in the coming year, but one bright spot on American democracy appears that the protests in the US seem to be leading to the most change. Its actually how our government is set up- to respond meaningfully to civil unrest when the will of the people has been otherwise frustrated by government (in)action. I hope that is something the world learns from this beyond how NOT to run a country in moments of natural disaster...

[EastCoastCB]

The longer this goes on, the more attractive emigrating to a more proactive country is becoming. The big question though, is- who would want us? lol

[TomA]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

The longer this goes on, the more attractive emigrating to a more proactive country is becoming. The big question though, is- who would want us? lol

Funny you should mention it. New Zealand is beginning to do some whispered hand-wringing about the USA.

Just because you guys would most likely never see something like this domestically, here's a great example how a responsible, proactive and honest government does business:

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pan...in-new-zealand


Note that the opposition is being critical of the PM's lockdown scheme as "too loose..."



Its also a little ironic that this report is from Voice of America news, which Trump has just set about vandalizing into Official State Media by firing all of its hard news independent leadership worldwide in favor of crony yesmen apparatchiks...

[EastCoastCB]

That's what I mean- I'd love to be living in a society fighting for more covid abatement. This ignoring it and diminishing its severity here in FL is killing me.

[banman]

Originally Posted by TomA

Sadly, this narrative is entirely mistaken. COVID-19 is about to become the single largest cause of death in the US. It is already bigger than cancer, respiratory disease, accidents, EVERYTHING but heart disease. In less than six months. How long will the virus kill more Americans than anything else? No one knows. Could be a year or two. That's no seasonal flu. There is also a significant amount of permanent disability in the recovered. This will become clearer as many more millions find just out how much worse than the seasonal flu this virus turns out to be...


SNIP...his beyond how NOT to run a country in moments of natural disaster...

You Sir are spot on!

One thing the US mentality has going for it IS it's ability to rally for a purpose.
For whatever reason the images of "body count" in over-whelmed hospitals, morgues, ect has been sanitized from our prole-feed-news-services...
A friend of mine living just outside NYC saw the ice-skating he took his children too converted to a dead-body-storage area because the local morgues were overwhelmed...

Those kinda images will wake up the deniers when they're more local images...
Utterly tragic that it will probably have to come to that but...

[banman]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

That's what I mean- I'd love to be living in a society fighting for more covid abatement. This ignoring it and diminishing its severity here in FL is killing me.

Here's a line of thought for your "I don't care" friends/relatives.
(I didn't write it -- apologies to the author for not quoting 'em)

I’ve heard people say that the risk of getting COVID-19 is just something we need to learn to live with, just like the risk of auto accidents. You may be surprised to learn that I agree.

But keep this in mind: We have hundreds (if not thousands) of safety measures in place to reduce the risks (and hazards) of auto accidents as much as possible. Our cars have bumpers, brakes, seat belts, and airbags. We have rules of the road including speed limits, stop lights, and one-way streets. We have laws against driving while intoxicated and otherwise driving recklessly and irresponsibly.

We have become willing to accept the risks from driving because we, as a community, have made significant efforts to reduce those risks.

If we are to accept the risks from COVID-19, then we FIRST need to reduce those risks as much as is reasonable. That includes regular hand washing, social distancing, and mask wearing when and where appropriate.

If you are going out in public without following distancing guidelines and wearing a mask when that’s not possible (especially indoors), then you are the equivalent of a reckless driver. You are acting just as irresponsibly as a person running red lights in a car with no brakes.

[JackE]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

That's what I mean- I'd love to be living in a society fighting for more covid abatement. This ignoring it and diminishing its severity here in FL is killing me.

This comment sparked a memory from my childhood.

I was an ornery teenager living in Northeast Wisconsin. My parents were big believers of being self-reliant, which meant a large (1 acre) garden for us kids to work in ALL the hot humid summer long! One miserable day it was in the mid 90's and 90%+ humidity. I was doing nothing but sweating and complaining about my miserable situation. My dad stopped working, which almost never happened, took the hoe from my hands and said something like this;

"One of the greatest freedoms we have been given by living in this country is that WE can improve upon our own situation if we don't like it. If you don't like working in this garden, If you don't like this lush green land, If you don't like living in this humidity, Then YOU can do something about it. YOU go right ahead and improve upon your own situation. You have the right and freedom to make that choice for yourself, so make it! Now, get out of my garden while you figure that out!"

I never complained about working in that miserable garden again, at least not when he was around. I also moved out to the dry west desert and made my own way in life like he had taught me to do. One of the greatest lessons of my life; If you don't like your situation, you are the only one that will change it.

If you don't like where you are living, move.

I will never live in a humid climate again. I even have a hard time visiting those humid climates during the summer. I also hate cold weather because of that same place. I will never visit there in the winter either because of that.

[EastCoastCB]

Its not as simple as "move". I'd love for this country to actually TRY to do something about covid. But that's not really happening any time soon.
Just thinking about the options... They're limited. Hard to do int'l travel right now and most of the good places to move want you to have a job and money.

Complaining about a garden everyone's trampling isn't anti-American.

[TomA]

Originally Posted by JackE

If you don't like where you are living, move.

I thought I would see this sooner or later. America, love it or leave it.

In my case it is both. It gives me no peace to know my children and I are safe and happy here while the US is imploding with COVID-19.

"Move" sounds a lot like "Jump Ship" in this context. That isn't what a responsible sailor does who loves his ship and is watching it go over the reef and into the rocks. No, sir, you do not jump ship. Slap some sense into your mates, do everything you can, throw the captain overboard if you have to and get the vessel you love with everything you care about in it turned around and back into blue water.

Save the ship, not just yourself.

Jack, if your dad was using dioxin in the big garden to control weeds, poisoning you, your family, your neighbors and your whole town, would the best thing for you to do really be to move to Arizona?

I dunno, man, its a free country and all that, but I DID move, I AM safe, and it did nothing for my family who don't live with me, my friends all over the country, or The Home of the Brave to which I am a sworn constitutional officer, with pride and honor.

Just as an observation, its clear to me that other countries governed by incompetent creeps are following the US over the edge, (Russia, Brazil, India...) Seems to be a common denominator. Singapore is a dictatorship, and the Chinese Communist Party is plenty creepy, but they are not incompetently governing their people. Seems to be a terrible combination in these difficult times- incompetent creep. Are we to pay no attention to the man standing behind the curtain running the whole project off the rails, and just vote with our feet? Sometimes you have to be political, especially in a democracy, to save what you love.

Nobody ever said they "didn't like where they were living," or didn't love their country, or weren't committed to their community, or any other false premise that ends with the wiser option being to "leave."

Taking a break, now. Seems unlikely I will make it home in time for so many things that are really important to me. Makes me sad.



Stay safe & be well. Over & out.

[JackE]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Its not as simple as "move". I'd love for this country to actually TRY to do something about covid. But that's not really happening any time soon.
Just thinking about the options... They're limited. Hard to do int'l travel right now and most of the good places to move want you to have a job and money.

It is that easy, I have done a bunch of times.

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Complaining about a garden everyone's trampling isn't anti-American.

Didn't call anyone anti-American. Just simply said if you don't like where you are living, which you sayin one way or another in almost every post in this thread, it's easy to move somewhere you will be happier.

Originally Posted by TomA

I thought I would see this sooner or later. America, love it or leave it.

Who said 'America, love it or leave it?" I was simply trying to get someone who is unhappy with his current living situation to see that there are other places in this country that he might be happier.

Originally Posted by TomA

In my case it is both. It gives me no peace to know my children and I are safe and happy here while the US is imploding with COVID-19.

I'm not seeing any imploding where I live. Zero roiting & looting. We are up to a whopping 6 cases of Covid since the beginning of tracking this thing.

Originally Posted by TomA

"Move" sounds like "Jump Ship" in this context. That isn't what a responsible sailor who loves his ship and is watching it go over the reef and into the rocks. No,sir, you do not jump ship. Slap some sense into your mates, do everything you can, throw the captain overboard if you have to and get the vessel you love with everything you care about in it turned around and back into blue water.


Save the ship, not just yourself.

Not advocating jumping ship either. If I don't like the supervisor in the section of the ship I'm working, transfer to a different section. I'm not about to throw the captain overboard, not when said captain had more sailors working on my ship than any captain has had on any ship in the fleet in the last 90 years. I'm much more ready to throw a bunch of the sailors crying mutiny overboard even if it means I am likely to have to work longer and harder to keep the ship afloat.

Originally Posted by TomA

Jack, if your dad was using dioxin in the big garden to control weeds, poisoning you, your family, your neighbors and your whole town, would the best thing for you to do really be to move to Arizona?

Good thing my 'Dad' isn't using poison....

Originally Posted by TomA

I dunno, man, its a free country and all that, but I DID move, I AM safe, and it did nothing for the people I love who don't live with me, or The Home of the Brave.

There's nobody more patriotic than I am. Well, maybe my daughter and son-in-law. As soon as the Canadian border opened up so they could move BACK to the States, they did so, about a week ago. Back to help protect the rest of the family, and to do what they can to help save the Captain of the ship. I go to work to do my part to keep America as safe from the bad element of society as I can. My son goes out and patrols the streets every day to help keep America as safe as he can from the bad element that walks the streets. We in my family support ALL those who walk the thin line to maintain The Home of The Brave, and we do it proudly!

Originally Posted by TomA

Just as an observation, its clear to me that other countries governed by incompetent creeps are following the US over the edge, (Russia, Brazil, India...) Seems to be a common denominator. Singapore is a dictatorship, and the Chinese Communist Party is plenty creepy, but they are not incompetently governing their people. Are we to pay no attention to the man standing behind the curtain running the whole project off the rails?

Anybody that believes the whole project is being run off the rails by one single man standing behind a curtain needs to go back to the land of Oz, because there are several hundred of those people hiding behind the curtain arguing amongst themselves for who gets to pull the levers, meanwhile the rest of us are circling the drain.

Originally Posted by TomA

Nobody ever said they "didn't like where they were living," or didn't love their country, or weren't committed to their community, or any other false premise that ends with the wiser option being to "leave." Why do you have to go there? I don't need an answer.


Taking a break, now. Just all too discouraging for me at this point.


Over & out.

You can't just ask a question like that and then say "don't answer." The very nature of lodging a complaint, quite frequently, about the nature of the leadership in the city, county, and state that you live, is in and of itself implying that you are unhappy with your current circumstances. The easiest why I have found to remedy that is to find somewhere that is better suited to give you that peace and tranquility that you so desire. I did just that very thing, several times, looking for that special place. It took moving many times, but I did eventually find that 'Heavenly" place for me right in the middle of nowhere, Nevada! I have a very good friend who sold his rather lucrative farm in Washington State a few years ago. He found his 'Heavenly' place even farther into the middle of nowhere Nevada on a failing farm. He has turned that into a very lucrative farm over the last 7 years. He left Washington because he didn't like the direction the political scene of the entire state was headed. He transferred positions on the ship for a different assignment that was more suited to where he wanted to end up. Didn't have leave the country to do that. Oh, yea, he is also another person who is more patriotic than I am. There are a few.

[EastCoastCB]

3300 cases today in FL. People are protesting in the cities with mask mandates.
Fl is a plagued ship with a sock puppet for a captain. Even his evil predecessor is saying its out of control here and he's of the same party affiliation.

[TomA]

Jack, I understand. I really do, just feel differently.


Please know that my disappointment is not with you personally, nor what you stand for or your opinion. You don't need to defend yourself. I'm sure you are a fine neighbor and reliable friend and I consider you a compatriot. May we meet out on the open road some day.



Stay safe & be well.


Tom

[JackE]

Originally Posted by TomA

Jack, I understand. I really do, just feel differently.


Please know that my disappointment is not with you personally, nor what you stand for or your opinion. You don't need to defend yourself. I'm sure you are a fine neighbor and reliable friend and I consider you a compatriot. May we meet out on the open road some day.



Stay safe & be well.


Tom

I look forward to that day, although, probably not until Elon Musk gets his transatlantic tunnel finished!!

[Oscar1]

Washington State gov Jay Inslee just announced that amid massive outbreak seeing huge spikes in positive numbers effective Friday all persons outside of their residence are required to wear masks.
Don't see how they can enforce that and still allow the debacle they are ignoring in Capitol Hill area.

[EastCoastCB]

Man, that's decent of him, IMO. I can't even imagine having a leader suggesting we wear masks.

[Oscar1]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Man, that's decent of him, IMO. I can't even imagine having a leader suggesting we wear masks.

Exactly, might be like closing the barn door after the cow is gone but at least it's a good effort. They announced 600 new cases yesterday and that's freaking them out, maybe he's seen the horrible Florida numbers and is hoping to avoid that. One scary part of this is that even though the border is closed many Americans are crossing north saying they are going to Alaska(which they have a right to do) they are told straight to Alaska and no stops. They are lying to border agents and heading to their summer homes in the Okanogan valley and touring in Banff and Jasper parks. Not cool.