COVID-19 | Effects on Skoolies - No Politics please.

[EastCoastCB]

The Marion County, FL Sheriff has forbidden his staff and deputies from wearing masks.
https://www.ocala.com/news/20200811/...-to-wear-masks

[joeblack5]

No surprise. That is because the defunding

[ACamper]

People are starting to realize in ineffectiveness of masks. Many types of masks do not prevent virus spread and some are even helping spread the virus.

Could the Mask You’re Wearing Actually Be Spreading Germs?
https://www.njfamily.com/could-the-m...reading-germs/
https://www.worldhealth.net/news/stu...are-effective/

In some positive news, Sweden is smashing the curve way below the most countries, some virology experts are saying possibly 30% or more of the population has COVID19 antibodies now.
https://www.ft.com/content/7acfc5b8-...6-b70dc850428f

[cadillackid]

One of the other things that’s going on is the learning that some people are more naturally immune than others.. if you have been exposed to other coronaviruses on a regular basis your body may have T cells which can lessen the effects of the CoVID illness or eliminate body symptoms .. ie the average 40-60% who never get sick at all (but can spread it).. it’s one of the theories why the south is spreading it more right now is that common colds don’t ravage the south as much over the winter as up north..

The current crop of vaccines are RNA type or that make you develop antibodies which will be effective short to medium term. A new group of developments are in telling the body to develop T cells which can be a much longer term partial or full immunity.
A mixture of both vaccines will likely be available in the future. Antibody vaccines will be here quicker and can be administered to the higjest risk patients first which could greatly curb the death and long term health effects rate.

Of course many anti vaxxers are in the high risk category , hopefully there’s not enough of them that they either continue to spread the virus or have to be forced to stay home or take it. I don’t want to see us get into a required by law situation

[sutphinins]

Originally Posted by ACamper

People are starting to realize in ineffectiveness of masks. Many types of masks do not prevent virus spread and some are even helping spread the virus.

Could the Mask You’re Wearing Actually Be Spreading Germs?
https://www.njfamily.com/could-the-m...reading-germs/
https://www.worldhealth.net/news/stu...are-effective/

In some positive news, Sweden is smashing the curve way below the most countries, some virology experts are saying possibly 30% or more of the population has COVID19 antibodies now.
https://www.ft.com/content/7acfc5b8-...6-b70dc850428f

The link for ft doesn't show any information if you don't pay them.


I did not look at your spreading germs links but I think this recent article from the WSJ is worth checking out: https://www.wsj.com/articles/face-ma...ng-11595083298
Not to mention that fact that Asian countries whose population usually wears surgical type masks have lower infection rates should be enough to say we should all wear some form of mouth/nose covering while out and around people we don't live with.


I personally do not understand why wearing a mask is still being talked about. Just wear it already so we can all get healthier. If someone with severe asthma that requires a nasal cannula and oxygen can wear a cloth or surgical mask when out, you can too.

[EastCoastCB]

Another typical day in FL. 229 deaths since yesterday.

[ACamper]

Originally Posted by sutphinins

I personally do not understand why wearing a mask is still being talked about. Just wear it already so we can all get healthier.

Many people like to educate themselves.

The discussion is that some kinds of masks are not effective in preventing spread or make it worse. Duke University spent time and energy into researching it.

Originally Posted by sutphinins

I did not look at your spreading germs links but I think this recent article from the WSJ is worth checking out

Selective Information Gathering - ignore any info that does not fit into pr-exiting personal beliefs and rehash info that does.

[sutphinins]

Originally Posted by ACamper

Many people like to educate themselves.

The discussion is that some kinds of masks are not effective in preventing spread or make it worse. Duke University spent time and energy into researching it.

Selective Information Gathering - ignore any info that does not fit into pr-exiting personal beliefs and rehash info that does.

Didn't say I ignored it, only that I didn't look at the two links. I am working so I can't always take the time to look at it then. I did look at them and they were both about the Duke test which just says bandanas and some similar cloth style masks aren't good. However that was a study using common items that almost anyone could have (except the lasers). They used a cellphone camera. If you look at the actual study the go into details on the limitations of their testing method.

Not sure about that one site you used, https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/worldhealth-net/, to educate yourself.

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by ACamper

Selective Information Gathering - ignore any info that does not fit into pr-exiting personal beliefs and rehash info that does.

Not to be too blunt but if anything is selective cherry-picking information, its not the person citing the Wall Street Journal, a credible and reputable publication.

Citing a New Jersey Mom's magazine, and a disreputable psuedo-science website as sources of credible medical information strikes me as the more egregious example of selective information gathering.

Beyond this I'm not sure if you fully read the NJfamily article you linked, or clicked through to the original source or the CNN article they paraphrased, but if you did, I wouldn't expect you to be using that article or the study it referenced as evidence against mask wearing, its quite the opposite.


Beyond the clickbait title, the article goes on to support mask wearing and show evidence of the relative effectiveness of most types of mask, particularly the most commonly worn types such as surgical and homemade double layer cotton masks.

Bandanas and 'fleece face coverings' were shown to not be very effective.

Fourteen common types of masks were tested, and each mask was tested 10 times. Not surprisingly, the fitted N95 mask was the most effective. Three-layer surgical masks and the cotton masks people have been making at home also performed well.

Or watched the video associated with the Duke research you alluded to:
https://youtu.be/Y0mbWX4Uing?t=82

It baffles me that people in this country have somehow managed to turn even a super simple, non-invasive, and at worst mildly inconvenient, medical/public health strategy into a political issue and topic of so much misinformation. (this last paragraph is not directed at anyone, just a general comment on the state of things)

[dzl_]

A couple figures pulled from the study referenced above showing the relative effectiveness of 14 different face coverings:


Figure 3
This figure shows droplet count (vertical axis) of each face covering type relative to no covering. As you can see, most coverings, including all masks, and all recommended mask types are drastically more effective than, no covering. On the right you can see a more detailed look at 4 selected coverings (surgical mask, double layer cotton, bandana, no mask).






Figure S5
This figure shows the droplet count and droplet size of each mask type (orange) relative to no mask (green). Vertical axis is droplet count (lower is better) Horizontal axis is size.

[Native]

Thank you for posting the actual graphs, dzl_

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by Native

Thank you for posting the actual graphs, dzl_

I love me some good graphs and charts and tables

[ACamper]

The point of my post was the Duke University study, not who was presenting the study or the best magazine to read.

Originally Posted by dzl_

Bandanas and 'fleece face coverings' were shown to not be very effective.

Yes, this was on of the big take always for most in the study. Hopefully this info can give many folks some understanding that their current mask is giving them a false sense of security, safety and ego.

We currently have a large percentage of folks wearing basically underwear on their face(that offers no real virus suppression or protection qualities) aggressively and violently demanding others do the same as them.

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by ACamper

The point of my post was the Duke University study, not who was presenting the study or the best magazine to read.

That's fair, I don't think that's the best practice but I do the same thing sometimes. I don't have any issues with the study itself.

I do feel that, especially with public health information, a credible and quality source is important.

For instance the NJfamily article itself isn't horrible (it just paraphrases another article that is paraphrasing the study). But the headline is sensationalist and intentionally misleading:

"Could the mask you're wearing actually be spreading germs?"

Answer: 12 out of 14 face coverings (including every type of mask tested) are effective. 1 is not and 1 or 2 are only marginally effective.

I suppose a headline of "Study shows: most masks effective, bandanas and fleece neck gaiters are not" doesn't generate as many clicks.

Yes, this was on of the big take aways for most in the study. Hopefully this info can give many folks some understanding that their current mask is giving them a false sense of security, safety and ego.

I do agree one takeaway should be, use a double layer mask or other recommended option, don't use a single layer neck gaiter/buff/fleece and only use a bandana if that's all you have (its much less effective than other types, but if you look at the posted charts (particular top right) you will see its still substantially better than no mask at all).

And I do agree its good advice to make sure your mask is effective from a public health standpoint (and just do you best to follow and understand public health guidance in general).

The two most common types in my area (double or triple layer cloth and surgical masks are both recommended by public health authorities and are effective according to the study we are discussing and others).

As to a false sense of safety and security, I agree a false sense of security can make things worse. Regarding mask wearing in general, the primary purpose of wearing a mask RE: Covid is and always has been (1) protecting others, (2) minimizing or slowing the spread of the virus. Some personal protection is offered by mask wearing, but its not the primary purpose or motivation in this context.

Both mask wearing, and those who refuse to wear a mask out of naivety/ignorance or selfishness need to understand the primary purpose is not self protection, its about caring for and respecting others and protecting the community as a whole.

We currently have a large percentage of folks wearing basically underwear on their face(that offers no real virus suppression or protection qualities) aggressively and violently demanding others do the same as them.

Than we are in agreement, the takeaway should be to make sure to wear an effective mask in appropriate situations, in combination with other reasonable precautions and good hygeine, and take other reasonable and socially conscious steps to protect others and ourselves and limit the spread of the virus.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by ACamper

The point of my post was the Duke University study, not who was presenting the study or the best magazine to read.



Yes, this was on of the big take always for most in the study. Hopefully this info can give many folks some understanding that their current mask is giving them a false sense of security, safety and ego.

We currently have a large percentage of folks wearing basically underwear on their face(that offers no real virus suppression or protection qualities) aggressively and violently demanding others do the same as them.

the graphs are cool.. doesnt alot have to do with fit too? for instance a surgical paper mask that fits poorly seems like it would do less than a proper fitting dual layer cloth mask.. (my masks are cotton multi-layer..) not sure how you determine what type that is since i dont see it.. but dual layer cotton is a common type that alot of people are wearing..



as are the blue paper ones.. whuch im assuming are surgical? or is cotton2 a dual layer cotton?


interesting how fleece shows as worse than none? not sure how that works



this is good stuff!

[ACamper]

Originally Posted by dzl_

Than we are in agreement, the takeaway should be to make sure to wear an effective mask in appropriate situations, in combination with other reasonable precautions and good hygeine, and take other reasonable and socially conscious steps to protect others and ourselves and limit the spread of the virus.

“appropriate situations” sure,

-If you are in a medical setting with developed, tested and polished virus containment procedures and the staff says “wear a mask”, yeah

-If some arrogant goon pulls up in the park and demands you and your family put on a mask ? different story, not a “appropriate situation”

A big problem I have with the masks is they are a distraction. People are busy bashing people at the beach without a mask while big business is cranking folks thru amusement parks, leisure stores and other profit producing models “we require masks”= it's OK.

Someone has a unclean rag on their face but touches 37 different places while pushing a baby stroller, handling drinks, standing in lines, etc.
The masks are a joke. People had better hygiene and spacing habits before the mask mandates and COVID19 growth rates were slower.

[ACamper]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the graphs are cool.. doesnt alot have to do with fit too? for instance a surgical paper mask that fits poorly seems like it would do less than a proper fitting dual layer cloth mask.. (my masks are cotton multi-layer..) not sure how you determine what type that is since i dont see it.. but dual layer cotton is a common type that alot of people are wearing..



as are the blue paper ones.. whuch im assuming are surgical? or is cotton2 a dual layer cotton?


interesting how fleece shows as worse than none? not sure how that works



this is good stuff!

I agree interesting stuff,

I have been using cotton masks for store runs, they are uncomfortable and I do not feel like they are very much of a real filter. I wore a doubled up cotton one a few times this spring it felt a lot more like a filter, it would be hard to wear now in the August temps.
Now I am looking at the cheap little blue ones, people say they are much more comfortable to wear. I guess the light ones are not for filtering only to prevent a sneeze from covering the room. I will try them a few times.

I go to a store 1-4 times a week, more then half of them do not require a mask but the big box stores do.

[TakinCareOfBusness]

I found this very interesting during the early stages of the virus spread. My early solution was to take a HEPA filter, cut it down, and enclose it in a folded bandana. Note that this was when masks were all but unobtainable.

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...testing-2020-4

Also, I encourage everyone to think in terms of probabilities vs. absolutes. Wearing a mask reduces the probability of spread; increasing the distance between yourself and others reduces the probability even more. A layered approach involving both materials and behaviors is your best bet.

Hope everyone stays well!

[Native]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the graphs are cool.
interesting how fleece shows as worse than none? not sure how that works
this is good stuff!

They are cool.


The fleece is knitted (not woven) and atomizes (aerosolizes) the exhaled breath. The aerosol particles are smaller and lighter and travel further and thus stay in the air longer.


It is all very good stuff.

[cadillackid]

I’ve got all kinds of different masks, my Humana mask seems to fit wel and breathes decent although since it fogs my sunglasses it isn’t filtering all air but does surely slow down air and droplets are likely caught on the mask .. I have foam rubber “fashion masks” which breathe decent and air is definitely slowed and dispersed even if I breathe heavy. Those are extra hot in summer but are great when it’s cool or inside AC, I have the blue paper ones which seem not to fit great and more air seems to escape around, although they do get wet in front of my nose and mouth which means at least some droplets are being stopped... I’ve got different cloth ones which seem to be similar to paper in that they get wet so must be doing something..

On this road trip I’ve been in the last 10 days masking has been pretty darn high even in truck stops which previously were very sparse for masks.. I mask in all buildings but not outside when I’m fitness walking or going someplace unless it’s fairly populated.. while I usually traverse downtowns of cities this trip has been smaller towns or more upscale suburbs .. it’s sad but some of the worst mask % was in small towns deep in Louisiana and Mississippi. I spent very little time (and $) in those states..