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Old 12-02-2020, 04:58 PM   #1841
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https://www.fox13news.com/news/9994-...-97-new-deaths

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Old 12-02-2020, 05:26 PM   #1842
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Not trying to sway you any way, just saying...

My friend knows 2 people who died in a car accident. Their deaths on the death certificate were listed as COVID-19. A guy at work committed suicide a few weeks ago. His death was written as COVID-19. Be careful what statistics you believe.

Also, found this from the CDC re deaths and positive rates.
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Old 12-02-2020, 05:40 PM   #1843
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Thanks Witchywoman, Even an old goat like me has a good chance of survival. A friend of mine died a few months ago massive heart attack while sleeping, and it was marked as covid 19. He was just 62 years young. If you subtract all the other made up covid deaths your chances are even better. Stay safe and well my friends.
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Old 12-02-2020, 06:58 PM   #1844
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ls/6470606002/

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The United States reported more than 4.4 million new coronavirus cases in November, far more than double any other month of the pandemic, a USA TODAY analysis of Johns Hopkins University data shows.

The numbers are startling. The total case count is nearly what the nation reported in August, September and October combined. An average rate of 99 cases were reported every minute through the month. In November alone, one of every 22 North Dakota residents tested positive. In South Dakota, it was one of 26; Wyoming, one of 29; Iowa, one of 31.

The U.S. also reported 36,918 deaths in November, a toll higher than all months but April and May. The fatalities totaled more people than the U.S. lost in the entirety of the Korean War. On average, 50 Americans died every hour.
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Old 12-02-2020, 07:00 PM   #1845
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Not trying to sway you any way, just saying...

My friend knows 2 people who died in a car accident. Their deaths on the death certificate were listed as COVID-19. A guy at work committed suicide a few weeks ago. His death was written as COVID-19. Be careful what statistics you believe.

Also, found this from the CDC re deaths and positive rates.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/so...19-death-toll/
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:52 PM   #1846
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As someone who's currently training to become an EMT and being taught by active paramedics and AEMT's, I can say that everyone I've met in the health care field is wary of this virus and taking their precautions.

There are very real reasons some seemingly unrelated causes of death are being listed as covid-related.

In my field, you're taught to treat all trauma patients as potential medical patients-- a car accident or fall off a ladder could very well stem from a heart attack or stroke or seizure from an underlying health condition. Very often is the case that folks in these instances could have suffered from any number of blood clots we're seeing in covid patients post-mortem. If you haven't been hearing about that, I dare you to google it without reaching for the baby aspirin. Heart attacks are also a huge factor in covid-related deaths, as is acute respiratory failure.

Just wanting to remind everyone things aren't always as simple as they seem and nuance is everything. Learning about this on the "inside" has definitely been a wild ride.


Trying to spend the winter and spring gearing up for what's sure to be an epic trip once this is all over. Now about finding me a bus...
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Old 12-03-2020, 07:18 AM   #1847
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upo north here in ohio its gotten cold.. wearing masks is something we all have done outdoors for years.. im not sure why do many find it offensive to do so.. from what ive seen here masking is pretty good.. gatherings and government policies which "entice" people to be more dense are causing issues.. ie governor puts out a curfew so now everyone goes out in less time and crowds indoor spaces more... some actually visit friends and stay overnight (although ive been out driving way past curfew and passed many a cop with no isses)..



now masks.. onto masks.. no the standard cloth masks we use dont "filter" the virus.. however they do stop the velocity and distance it travels if you breathe it out..



in the HVAC diffusers are installed in ceilings of public buildings so that people dont feel cold with A/C air blowing right on them.. it takes a certain amount of A/C'd air to make a person feel cold.. if you have a duct blowing directly on you then you are going to feel cold much quicker... if you diffuse the air into a room then it takes much longer to feel cold if at all.. put enough cold air in the room and everyone will feel cold..



now lets look at the virus as such.. it takes a certain viral load to get infected.. you need to breath in a certain amount of it and in such a way that it gets past your bodies first line of defense (your nose and throat)..



if im sick and I breath right on you then im pretty likely to give you enough viral load to get sick.. if you and I are wearing masks then the distance the air from my breath travels is less as is the velocity.. the virus has much more chance of being mixed and diluted into the air.. ie becoming pretty harmless... without masks I can walk through a room breathing easily quite a biut of virus on everyone I pass.. quite possibly enough to infect them..



if im masked up im much less likely to breath enough virus on anyone to infect them.. esp if they are masked too as they also diffues the air being taken in..



*YES*!! it is entirely possibly that if the space is small or more than one sick person is in the room that even masked, enough virus is breathed into the air to raise the concentration level to a point where if you stay in the room long enough everyone gets infected.. (superspreader event)..



one of the reasons we see very little infection traced back to big box sotres, supermarkets etc is the large space involved .. people masked up inside and the air in motion (ceiling fans, HVAC, etc) dilute the virus concentration..



on the other hand, private homes, crowded bar rooms, lover rooms, etc are closer spaces with less total air volume.. and I dare say most home HVAC systems are terrible at air-replacement (if they have an outside air intake its usuaally closed).. people mingle around in bars drinking (so of course unmasked).. its crowded and very easy to infect each other..



indoor dining in restaraunts seems to be targeted as first for lockdowns yet its actually pretty safe as many restaraunts have high ceilings, HVAC with decent air exchange.. and while patrons are unmasked, they are butts in seats except for an occasional restroom trip.. they dont move around.. and are spread out (if the business follows protocol)..



Vaccines.. - I joined a vaccine phase 3 study a couple months ago.. one of the single dose candidates.. I dont know if I got the fake or the real thing.. I havent gotten an antibody test to see.. not sure i want to know.. (would I get complacent if I knew I got the real thing?).. I had a few Very mild symptoms 6 days after injection.. what felt like a very wimpy common cold for about a day and a half.. I had a touch of sore throat, felt a bit run-down and sniggled a bit.. I got CoVid tested (negative), and quarantined till mny results came back late that night.. (no 2 or 3 weeks waiting.. my results were right away.. I got the test from my healthcare provider and not a government agency)..



im a Gen Xer I grew up in a world of vaccines and booster shots.. I never really worried about getting them nor do I believe in conspiracy BS around them..



regardless of whether I got the fake or the real I wear my masks in buildings (and outside when its cold), prefer carry-out dining and coffee in my bus and dont atend any large parties..



that said i also dont stop living.. I do see a couple friends here and there, I do stay in hotels at times (yes I pick the nicer ones).. and I do shop in stores at times..
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Old 12-03-2020, 07:41 AM   #1848
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
upo north here in ohio its gotten cold.. wearing masks is something we all have done outdoors for years.. im not sure why do many find it offensive to do so.. from what ive seen here masking is pretty good.. gatherings and government policies which "entice" people to be more dense are causing issues.. ie governor puts out a curfew so now everyone goes out in less time and crowds indoor spaces more... some actually visit friends and stay overnight (although ive been out driving way past curfew and passed many a cop with no isses)..



now masks.. onto masks.. no the standard cloth masks we use dont "filter" the virus.. however they do stop the velocity and distance it travels if you breathe it out..



in the HVAC diffusers are installed in ceilings of public buildings so that people dont feel cold with A/C air blowing right on them.. it takes a certain amount of A/C'd air to make a person feel cold.. if you have a duct blowing directly on you then you are going to feel cold much quicker... if you diffuse the air into a room then it takes much longer to feel cold if at all.. put enough cold air in the room and everyone will feel cold..



now lets look at the virus as such.. it takes a certain viral load to get infected.. you need to breath in a certain amount of it and in such a way that it gets past your bodies first line of defense (your nose and throat)..



if im sick and I breath right on you then im pretty likely to give you enough viral load to get sick.. if you and I are wearing masks then the distance the air from my breath travels is less as is the velocity.. the virus has much more chance of being mixed and diluted into the air.. ie becoming pretty harmless... without masks I can walk through a room breathing easily quite a biut of virus on everyone I pass.. quite possibly enough to infect them..



if im masked up im much less likely to breath enough virus on anyone to infect them.. esp if they are masked too as they also diffues the air being taken in..



*YES*!! it is entirely possibly that if the space is small or more than one sick person is in the room that even masked, enough virus is breathed into the air to raise the concentration level to a point where if you stay in the room long enough everyone gets infected.. (superspreader event)..



one of the reasons we see very little infection traced back to big box sotres, supermarkets etc is the large space involved .. people masked up inside and the air in motion (ceiling fans, HVAC, etc) dilute the virus concentration..



on the other hand, private homes, crowded bar rooms, lover rooms, etc are closer spaces with less total air volume.. and I dare say most home HVAC systems are terrible at air-replacement (if they have an outside air intake its usuaally closed).. people mingle around in bars drinking (so of course unmasked).. its crowded and very easy to infect each other..



indoor dining in restaraunts seems to be targeted as first for lockdowns yet its actually pretty safe as many restaraunts have high ceilings, HVAC with decent air exchange.. and while patrons are unmasked, they are butts in seats except for an occasional restroom trip.. they dont move around.. and are spread out (if the business follows protocol)..



Vaccines.. - I joined a vaccine phase 3 study a couple months ago.. one of the single dose candidates.. I dont know if I got the fake or the real thing.. I havent gotten an antibody test to see.. not sure i want to know.. (would I get complacent if I knew I got the real thing?).. I had a few Very mild symptoms 6 days after injection.. what felt like a very wimpy common cold for about a day and a half.. I had a touch of sore throat, felt a bit run-down and sniggled a bit.. I got CoVid tested (negative), and quarantined till mny results came back late that night.. (no 2 or 3 weeks waiting.. my results were right away.. I got the test from my healthcare provider and not a government agency)..



im a Gen Xer I grew up in a world of vaccines and booster shots.. I never really worried about getting them nor do I believe in conspiracy BS around them..



regardless of whether I got the fake or the real I wear my masks in buildings (and outside when its cold), prefer carry-out dining and coffee in my bus and dont atend any large parties..



that said i also dont stop living.. I do see a couple friends here and there, I do stay in hotels at times (yes I pick the nicer ones).. and I do shop in stores at times..
Everything you just said 100%
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Old 12-03-2020, 07:57 AM   #1849
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I am in the front line worker group designated by our state. I am suppose to be in the first group getting the vaccine. I have been asked by my employer if I am willing to take the vaccine. I am not. It has nothing to do with thinking Covid is fake. It has everything to do with there being ZERO long term results of the drug. How many lawyer adds do we already watch every day about class action lawsuits from the long term effects of drugs that HAVE HAD the long term testing? Billions of dollars have been paid out in these types of claims. My mom has collected over $750K in one of these class action suits, and it wasn't even for a drug, it was a medical device. There is absolutely no way I am going to allow a drug with no long term results to be injected into my body with the hope that it may work. They can really only guess at the effectiveness of the vaccine since they still do not understand this virus.

If you are comfortable taking on the completely unknown, more power to you. I'll take my chances.

On the mask side of the argument....
If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Wearing a mask is not going to adversely effect my life in any way whatsoever. Wearing a mask may just save my life. I wear it without complaining. Wearing a mask is definitely a risk I am willing to take with my life since the side effects of it not working are nill.
I'm not getting the vaccine for the same reasons you stated. And the manufacturers and developers have ZERO liability for the after effects. This is one of those situations where the cure could be worse then the disease.

No thank you.

I have and wear those blue paper masks into stores, around people, etc. I don't believe it does a thing to protect me, mainly to slow and possibly prevent the spread. I still have the N95's from the shop. I no longer wear them because they're no longer comfortable to do so. I assume that's because they're spent, but I have no idea.

Covid has hit home here, it's not some foreign virus nobody has heard of anymore. I know people who have died because of it. I knew some of them personally. They were all past retirement age, had underlying health conditions(heart attacks, lifelong smokers, etc.) , and the big kicker for every one; they all waited weeks before going and getting checked out. By that time, it was straight to the icu, which is where they spent the last of their days sadly.

I'm not a denier by any means, and I've never been. Covid is definitely real. I know people who have had it with no, mild, and serious symptoms. And people who have had it and died because of it, or their underlying conditions, whatever you want to label it as.

I thought I had it a few weeks ago. I attended a small wedding(less then 50) and had diarrhea for a week after, that next week I had vomiting, loss of appetite, fevers, dry cough, muscle aches, and easy exhaustion. I nearly slept 20 hours the day I was tested for covid and the results were negative, so who knows what I had. I never lost my sense of taste or smell, so I somewhat believe the validity of the test.

Regardless,
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Old 12-03-2020, 08:12 AM   #1850
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If an n95 is too uncomfortable try a kn95 if you can get them. they're the bees knees.
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Old 12-03-2020, 08:47 AM   #1851
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If an n95 is too uncomfortable try a kn95 if you can get them. they're the bees knees.
They were all fine at the beginning of the pandemic. Now they seem hard to breathe with and hold too much moisture in. I get a max of about 10 minutes before it's off.

I assume like any filter, they'll eventually clog up, maybe I'm wrong
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Old 12-03-2020, 08:49 AM   #1852
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Also, found this from the CDC re deaths and positive rates.
The risk from Covid19 is not high, less then rush hour traffic, factory work, logging. Personally I think people should have the freedom to make their own risk assessment and management.

If people find possible exposure too risky then they need to get out of Walmart, Home Depot, pizza shop, etc. They can hide in the basement and watch scary news. Curbside pick up, n95 mask, Please leave others alone.

Life is a survival strategy for most(even if they don't know it) Risk/Reward. Hiding in a basement waiting for a government/Big Pharma to get you a new vaccine has no reward for the majority of people.
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Old 12-03-2020, 08:50 AM   #1853
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Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
They were all fine at the beginning of the pandemic. Now they seem hard to breathe with and hold too much moisture in. I get a max of about 10 minutes before it's off.

I assume like any filter, they'll eventually clog up, maybe I'm wrong
The n95's are very uncomfortable for me, but I was wearing them. Once my mom gave me a box of KN95's I'm wearing those all the time. So much comfort difference I was shocked.
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Old 12-03-2020, 09:28 AM   #1854
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The n95's are very uncomfortable for me, but I was wearing them. Once my mom gave me a box of KN95's I'm wearing those all the time. So much comfort difference I was shocked.
Not sure I want to delude myself into thinking the KN95 is going to be good enough. It is the Chinese approved version of our N95 filtration. If China's regulations were as stringent as ours, we likely wouldn't have Corona-virus at all.

But that's just me...Ö.
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Old 12-03-2020, 09:34 AM   #1855
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Not sure I want to delude myself into thinking the KN95 is going to be good enough. It is the Chinese approved version of our N95 filtration. If China's regulations were as stringent as ours, we likely wouldn't have Corona-virus at all.

But that's just me...….
My mom works in a hospital and they're all rocking kn95's.
For trips to the doctor or to pickup a pizza they're sufficient.
I still wean a full n95 when I'm going to be closer than 6 feet to another human for sure.

I think you have the china stringent standard thing backwards.
We essentially don't even have a covid strategy. We're just watching it roll.
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Old 12-03-2020, 12:54 PM   #1856
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As someone who's currently training to become an EMT and being taught by active paramedics and AEMT's, I can say that everyone I've met in the health care field is wary of this virus and taking their precautions.

There are very real reasons some seemingly unrelated causes of death are being listed as covid-related.

In my field, you're taught to treat all trauma patients as potential medical patients-- a car accident or fall off a ladder could very well stem from a heart attack or stroke or seizure from an underlying health condition. Very often is the case that folks in these instances could have suffered from any number of blood clots we're seeing in covid patients post-mortem. If you haven't been hearing about that, I dare you to google it without reaching for the baby aspirin. Heart attacks are also a huge factor in covid-related deaths, as is acute respiratory failure.

Just wanting to remind everyone things aren't always as simple as they seem and nuance is everything. Learning about this on the "inside" has definitely been a wild ride.


Trying to spend the winter and spring gearing up for what's sure to be an epic trip once this is all over. Now about finding me a bus...
My husband worked in the medical field for many years. Iím very aware of underlying conditions causing deaths. I will never say that doesnít happen. Iím just saying there are very real cases where the cause of death was not COVID yet it was counted that way.

The folks I mentioned in the car accident were killed by a drunk driver on impact. Very hard to believe that would actually be COVID-19 related. The person who committed suicide hung himself. Also hard to believe COVID killed him. Just because you have it when you die doesnít mean it should be listed as your cause of death.

I was just making a point that statistics can be distorted. Again, not trying to sway anyone one way or the other.
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Old 12-03-2020, 02:57 PM   #1857
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Not trying to sway you any way, just saying...

My friend knows 2 people who died in a car accident. Their deaths on the death certificate were listed as COVID-19. A guy at work committed suicide a few weeks ago. His death was written as COVID-19. Be careful what statistics you believe.

Also, found this from the CDC re deaths and positive rates.
I'd like to see the ACTUAL EVIDENCE of this assertion, because that is falsifying a death record and would be a like a felony to the doctor that signed it, and they would lose their license.

Because I believe the CDC like 10000 times more than your friends who know a friend who heard this or that. Did they see some election fraud too?
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Old 12-03-2020, 03:10 PM   #1858
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I'd like to see the ACTUAL EVIDENCE of this assertion, because that is falsifying a death record and would be a like a felony to the doctor that signed it, and they would lose their license.

Because I believe the CDC like 10000 times more than your friends who know a friend who heard this or that. Did they see some election fraud too?
Wow. No need to get nasty. I never said anything horrific or hurtful. I simply pointed out a couple instances where deaths were attributed to an incorrect cause. I see no need to ask my co-workers wife for his death certificate to appease someone behind a computer screen. Nor do I see the need to ask my friend. You donít have to believe me or like what I say. But being rude, aggressive and hostile for no reason is uncalled for. This is supposed to be a friendly forum where we can discuss things like adults. If you want to talk politics, Iíd be happy to. But not on here. I highly suggest you get educated before bullying people online.
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Old 12-03-2020, 03:13 PM   #1859
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My mom works in a hospital and they're all rocking kn95's.
For trips to the doctor or to pickup a pizza they're sufficient.
I still wean a full n95 when I'm going to be closer than 6 feet to another human for sure.

I think you have the china stringent standard thing backwards.
We essentially don't even have a covid strategy. We're just watching it roll.
Quoted from one of the many health web-sites. It's on line, it has to be true!

"Both products are said to filter 95 percent of aerosol particulates. KN95 respirators differ from N95 respirators because they meet the Chinese standard but are not regulated by U.S. agencies. In the United States, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH ) regulates masks.Oct 12, 2020"

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...e-as-n95-masks

Quote:
Originally Posted by witchywoman View Post
My husband worked in the medical field for many years. Iím very aware of underlying conditions causing deaths. I will never say that doesnít happen. Iím just saying there are very real cases where the cause of death was not COVID yet it was counted that way.

The folks I mentioned in the car accident were killed by a drunk driver on impact. Very hard to believe that would actually be COVID-19 related. The person who committed suicide hung himself. Also hard to believe COVID killed him. Just because you have it when you die doesnít mean it should be listed as your cause of death.

I was just making a point that statistics can be distorted. Again, not trying to sway anyone one way or the other.
I have heard similar stories for the past 6 months or so. I'm of the camp believing these numbers are being inflated by the false recording of cause of death to boost the money being handed out by the Feds to facilities dealing with Covid. But then, I am kinda a conspiracy theorist. Art Bell is one of my all-time favorite radio show personalities. Sad day when he left the airways!
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Old 12-03-2020, 04:05 PM   #1860
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https://www.wesh.com/article/florida...ber-3/34864257

The mask free state numbers aren't good.

Quote:
Thursday: 10,870
Wednesday: 9,994
Tuesday: 8,547
Monday: 6,658
Sunday: 7,364
Saturday: 6,276
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