Crown Reality Check

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

the prices going up is why i grabbed my wifes shorty last year.
a little more than i wanted to pay price wise but well worth it because of its powertrain. for her and her mechanical knowledge.
little more but it was the right fit and capable of towing with no questions asked.

[Ronnie]

Yes prices are going up. A nice bookmobile I had my eye on went for $7700 after premium and taxes. Oh that would have made a wonderful skoolie. Maybe who ever bought it will show up on the forum.


Charlie I do not want to derail this thread, however the old ways of life is what I mean. text me if you want to talk about it.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Yes prices are going up. A nice bookmobile I had my eye on went for $7700 after premium and taxes. Oh that would have made a wonderful skoolie. Maybe who ever bought it will show up on the forum.


Charlie I do not want to derail this thread, however the old ways of life is what I mean. text me if you want to talk about it.

Bookmobiles, wanderlodges, and a few of of the older coaches are where its at.

I'll sure text ya, but not to argue about anything lol. I just enjoy hearing from ya.

[ch1rpy3]

Originally Posted by flattracker

I will address some of the comments about my Crown's engine failure. When I purchased the "New Crown" I first had a long time race buddy check it out. My friend happens to be a long time diesel mechanic, who worked at a shop that works mostly on 18 wheelers and some buses. He has been in the trade for his whole career and is knowledgeable of both Detroit and Cummins engines. After purchase (in 2019 for $3k) he did a complete service of the bus and had the transmission serviced at a transmission shop. Given that the odometer showed only about 50 K miles, the bearing failure was a surprise to all involved. The Cummins Big Cam III was normally found in big over the road trucks and has an excellent reputation. The over the road trucks don't go a million miles without work on the engine. Professional drivers (truckers) usually keep a maintenance fund to cover repairs for their trucks. The big Cummins (855,s are designed for in frame major repair (most anything that doesn't require removal of the crankshaft).

As Crowns use components common to the over the road trucks, I stand by my statement about a million mile bus.
I expect the current engine in my "new Crown" to last past my existence. The improvements that came with having a big cam III all moved to the big cam I engine (excepting mechanical valve timing which is known to be problematic).

50k is sounds low for sure. It's interesting to know all the garage maintenance you did right after buying it, that's something I've been thinking about a lot. I read about the crankshaft on the little one and I guess I thought the big one was vanishingly rare but I also maybe just saw a bus with one go? I think it was like 7k in the end.

[ch1rpy3]

Originally Posted by rossvtaylor

Thanks for taking the time to respond to so many comments, from me and others. That's very classy and appreciated. It's like writing a thank-you note after a gift.

Million mile buses, you ask? Actually, all the buses I mentioned are "million mile" buses because they used to be made that way. Anything made, back in the day, for Trailways or Greyhound was made to last and be easily repairable. For example, those GM buses (whether a highway or transit bus) have the engines hanging in a cradle with 4 bolts. A shop could change out the engine and transmission in a few hours. MCIs were also made like that. We have an MCI MC-7 and the engine slides out the back on V rails. By the way, while we love our MC-7 take a look at the MC-5 that bus_bro just posted about in this thread: https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f14/a...tml#post423894 It's not a school bus, so we should be banned for mentioning it, but the MC-5 is one of my favorite buses...and this one seems very nice.

But...after all that...it's not a Crown and Crowns are cool.

Thanks, thats a really nice thing to say. idk if I've ever been called classy haha.

IDRK about a coach though, even a solid older one. 20k and it's unlikely I would keep many of the 50 year old systems or even the insulation, and 1966 is a truly oldschool motor vehicle. Even with a pull out motor (cool) my understanding is that coaches are demanding and the differences between coaches and buses aren't exactly superficial. Also I'm just one scrappy person, a short bus may feel too small for f/t but I'm not looking for a palace. I am starting from the assumption that the very strong preference for 30-40ft schoolbuses with ground clearance from mid 80s-early 2000s is because they are somehow the buses best suited to the job.

And they are cool. Not saying I don't have fantasies about being cool in a cool bus. I could take it to Furthur, or vanish into the desert. But that doesn't mean I have my heart set on #vintage #buslife. It just has to be right.

[ch1rpy3]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Maybe but I do believe it is here to stay for some time.

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I'm not saying school buses are ever going to go down in price. Just the opposite- they're climbing and likely to stay there.

Not to barge in but I'm interested that you think they will stay high. Does that mean waiting is counterproductive? I am aware that there is some sort of hype machine right now that's attracting people who can pay whatever and making auctions go nuts. Are auctions still where the best prices are? Would it be better to try picking through Craigslist ads on the West Coast or calling school districts directly?

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by ch1rpy3

Not to barge in but I'm interested that you think they will stay high. Does that mean waiting is counterproductive? I am aware that there is some sort of hype machine right now that's attracting people who can pay whatever and making auctions go nuts. Are auctions still where the best prices are? Would it be better to try picking through Craigslist ads on the West Coast or calling school districts directly?

A local auction I was watching buses went for about $1500 for poor condition up to about $3000 for good but not great. Shorties went higher. An 8 window high roof Thomas with a Cat C7 and allison 2000 went for $3000. The bookmobile was in this auction. Funny a full size rear engine bus did not make reserve, the only one that was clean and nice looking, painted white. It was a 2009.


Last April I helped a friend get a bus and most of those sold for around $3-4,000

[Iceni John]

Originally Posted by ch1rpy3

Not to barge in but I'm interested that you think they will stay high. Does that mean waiting is counterproductive? I am aware that there is some sort of hype machine right now that's attracting people who can pay whatever and making auctions go nuts. Are auctions still where the best prices are? Would it be better to try picking through Craigslist ads on the West Coast or calling school districts directly?

At this time almost all the school districts in CA that used to run Crowns have got rid of them, thanks to CARB... There are a few odd districts here and there that still have a Crown or two lurking in the corner of their yard, but they're few and far between. Your best bet to find one with a known provenance and without a bad reputation is to join the Crown Coach Junkies forum on Facebook (I'm a member there, notwithstanding my hatred of all things Zuckerbergian), and the resident gurus there can, OK certainly will, point you in the right direction if you're interested in any of the Crowns that surface there for sale. There are a few mentioned there now for sale, but sometimes they have a checkered past or some other reason to be cautious.

A Crown is a lifelong commitment: it will last you for as long as you'll ever want, but that assumes you can give it the care and attention it will need during that time. Once you get familiar with it, it will seem like one of your own family - a friend most of the time, but sometimes exasperating (or worse) if it or you are having a bad day. Either way, you will have fun with it, trust me!

Good luck, John

[ch1rpy3]

Originally Posted by Iceni John

At this time almost all the school districts in CA that used to run Crowns have got rid of them, thanks to CARB... There are a few odd districts here and there that still have a Crown or two lurking in the corner of their yard, but they're few and far between. Your best bet to find one with a known provenance and without a bad reputation is to join the Crown Coach Junkies forum on Facebook (I'm a member there, notwithstanding my hatred of all things Zuckerbergian), and the resident gurus there can, OK certainly will, point you in the right direction if you're interested in any of the Crowns that surface there for sale. There are a few mentioned there now for sale, but sometimes they have a checkered past or some other reason to be cautious.

Hell yeah I also reject platform social media especially FB and all it's analogues. But I have a burner account for event stuff so I'll check it out. Is the situation the same for the 2s as the OGs? I feel like the 2s get less love but I'm kind of into them for some reason. 90s baby i guess

A Crown is a lifelong commitment: it will last you for as long as you'll ever want, but that assumes you can give it the care and attention it will need during that time. Once you get familiar with it, it will seem like one of your own family - a friend most of the time, but sometimes exasperating (or worse) if it or you are having a bad day. Either way, you will have fun with it, trust me!
Good luck, John

That's really my ideal... I've got people here n there but I'm also a lonely ass person n my truest friends are all electromechanical. Gnna keep an open mind on more conventional options but not stop hunting down special stuff. Dreaming is fun and maybe it will pay off.

[oberrw]

For lots more info, look up "Crown Coach Junkies" on Facebook.

[flattracker]

Originally Posted by ch1rpy3

50k is sounds low for sure. It's interesting to know all the garage maintenance you did right after buying it, that's something I've been thinking about a lot. I read about the crankshaft on the little one and I guess I thought the big one was vanishingly rare but I also maybe just saw a bus with one go? I think it was like 7k in the end.

The engine failure occurred in the 40 ft "new Crown". The only engine problem with the engine in the "old Crown" was a failed heater hose, and now a failed radiator.
I had to have some front end work done to the "old Crown" and a leaf replaced in the left front spring. I also once experienced a blow out of one of the right rear tires.

[rossvtaylor]

I told ya'll I was looking for a Crown...and I just pulled the trigger on one...I'm getting her tomorrow. Since flattracker wouldn't sell me "Old Crown" I had to go find a less-nice one...but I'll get her fixed up.

On a related note, that interesting Crown coach in Salt Lake City (which sold a couple of weeks ago for $8500) is going back on the market. Apparently the buyer realized he couldn't drive a non-synchro manual tranny.

[BigPaul367]

Originally Posted by ch1rpy3

Hi All,

I've been getting into the groove of learning about buses and have become aware of Crowns. They appeal deeply to me due to my previous experience falling for Technics 12s - learning my way around the circuitry and motor while exploring music has been one of the most rewarding experinces ever and brings me ridiculous joy every single day and I'm SO glad I didn't skimp and buy different and less storied decks . My heart is telling me that I could do something similar but on a life-size scale living in a Crown and learning its systems while exploring geographically (with the 12s installed in a place of honor ofc). Is this wierd and idealistic? Should I forget it and focus my research on more practical buses? Looking for input from both Crown proponents and detractors.

I'll try to fill in the blanks and not judge. In order to do that, I'll talk about MY dream! I to want a Crown, at least 35 feet, three axles, Cummins with an Automatic. The older the Bus, the more work it will need. I would strip out the floor completely and build the interior from the floor up, but before you get to that Pay Off, you gotta earn it. If you are lucky enough to at least get a Cummins engine, you'll be better off. Restrictions on 2-Stroke Detroit Diesels are getting worse every year, as a Professional Mechanic, I see the day when they will be restricted to the number of miles they can be operated each year, or worse! The Cummins motor is more reliable and less prone to annoyances. I have fixed them both and can safely say the only difference is cost when it comes to repairs. You will need to square away the suspension, and brakes. Then strip out the floor and inspect all the structural components of the frame and super structure. ANY rust will have to be repaired, anyone who thinks they can ignore even a small amount of rust is sadly mistaken, there's a reason it is called 'Cancer' among body repairmen. Ignore this cancer and it will eat your bus, so you must repair and replace and use every chemical known to stop and repel the disease! EVERYTHING original to a Crown is rare and expensive so get used to paying a premium or adapting something else to work in its place. You will become a MacGyver of sorts or know someone who is and there is no way around it. I assist in keeping several old GMC Tour Buses running, I have been there many times and these old Greyhounds are twenty four volt, everything but the head lights. If you are an above average human, like me and a roof raise is in your future, you need to understand that a crown is not a straight sided vehicle, it angles in below the windows and presents a challenge to those who want more vertical space. If you go vintage and get an Under Floor Powered Bus, you will lose a great deal of places to put RV Utilities, the Super Coach 2 is rear engine and has more usable under floor spaces. The original Super Coach had an access under the floor in the middle of the bus and it needs to remain accessible. The Torment of these facts are that which keep me at bay with trying to purchase a Crown. I hope I remained neutral with this writing, I know it is going to cost more to use a Crown for a conversion and I am still trying to get to that end, but that also means that something else could and, hopefully, will catch my eye that costs less.

[mcduffieja]

@rossvtaylor Which Crown did you buy? Need details! Also, congratulations and I’m super jealous.

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by mcduffieja

@rossvtaylor Which Crown did you buy? Need details! Also, congratulations and I’m super jealous.

Thank you! It's a 1980 with a normally aspirated 6-71 and a 5-speed manual...pretty much just what I wanted. It got gutted and had a conversion started...then cleared out...so I've got some work ahead of me! But it's got good bones and a solid drivetrain.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by rossvtaylor

Thank you! It's a 1980 with a normally aspirated 6-71 and a 5-speed manual...pretty much just what I wanted. It got gutted and had a conversion started...then cleared out...so I've got some work ahead of me! But it's got good bones and a solid drivetrain.

The spicer 5 speed? 1st isn't snycro'd but the 4 regular forward gears are.

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

The spicer 5 speed? 1st isn't snycro'd but the 4 regular forward gears are.

The Eaton Fuller...I believe it's the same Road Ranger tranny as my Gillig, with the difference being that my Gillig has a splitter too...and of course the Gillig shift pattern is backwards. It's going to make the transitions between driving the two a challenge...

[Bigmikeclark]

I have a 94 Prevost with 850,000 miles and going strong. It has a rebuilt 60 series and Allison B500 6 speed. It cruises quietly and effortlessly down the highway.