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Old 06-23-2020, 07:05 PM   #1
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Dayton " demountable" wheel info needed

I'm finally ready to put some money in my bus, getting a 4.44 rear diff and doing brakes and lines. I bought some usable tires before I brought it home just in case but they are the same as my steering tires and not very deep tread like my big chunky rears that unfortunately have fantastic tread but are pretty crispy sidewalls. I'm looking at trying to put super singles on the rear, but I've got Dayton style 5 spokes. I have found some part numbers for accuride 22.5 x 12.5 /13/14 wheels and even a company that says they will make them, for 450 a piece! So I'm looking for some used ones but my question is, do the 5 and 6 spoke Dayton's use the same rims? I know I'm probably. Not gou. G to find what I'm after used but I'd still like to know as much about the wheels on my bus as possible.
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Old 06-23-2020, 10:57 PM   #2
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Yes

The number of spokes are not related to the diameter of the rim.

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Old 06-24-2020, 12:19 AM   #3
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You ain't putting super singles on that bus without a lot of money. I would think the Dayton stuff would go to the recycler, and if you some how fit super single rims to your axle along with the required brake redo it will take real money and a lot of effort. It's not like I know a price, but if you can put super singles on that bus for $5,000 you're probably doing pretty darn good.
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:39 AM   #4
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Because the rears on dayton rims have to have both rims and a spacer to clamp the whole assembly in place, how would you acomadate that in a single rim? Or do you plan to run a bare rim on the inside then a spacer then the super single rim?
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Old 06-24-2020, 08:08 AM   #5
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So how much would a super single axle from a wrecked semi cost? I would think it would be a fairly straight forward axle swap, and getting the gear ratio you want should be easier too. Roll your cost of gear swap, brake swap, rim fabrication, and tires all into buying a complete axle from a wrecking yard, probably cheaper and way easier.

I'm just guessing here, going off my days of off-road fabrication experience.
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Old 06-24-2020, 08:47 AM   #6
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A couple things that needs to be considered.

Dayton rims are an older thing. Most commercial vehicles made in the last 20 years weren't equipped with daytons.

Whereas super singles are a newer trend within the last decade or so.

So the two things you're trying to marry, dayton rims and super singles, won't be a common item.

What you will find is that certain dump trucks used daytons and real wide front tires. They did that for high weight capacity and low ground compaction. The problem is that those were all typically 24.5 diameter rims, so to find them in 22.5 rims it's going to be pretty difficult.

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Originally Posted by JackE View Post
So how much would a super single axle from a wrecked semi cost? I would think it would be a fairly straight forward axle swap, and getting the gear ratio you want should be easier too. Roll your cost of gear swap, brake swap, rim fabrication, and tires all into buying a complete axle from a wrecking yard, probably cheaper and way easier.

I'm just guessing here, going off my days of off-road fabrication experience.
That's the route I would go for all the points that you mentioned. I'd think a truck junkyard would have the axle you need. Granted, it likely won't be a nuts and bolts swap. You might have to install new spring perches on the axle and do some magic to get the u-joint and pinion yoke to work. But I'd prefer that over a set of one off rims.
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Old 06-24-2020, 11:07 AM   #7
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Do you already have the 4.44 rear diff to go in your present axle?
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Old 06-24-2020, 01:50 PM   #8
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The number of spokes are not related to the diameter of the rim.



William
Not talking about rim diameter. I'm talking about the way they mount to the hub/spoked center part. I've read some thing about 15. The one accuride sale ad I saw said 6 spoke. I assume heavier weight rating so I don't know if the wheel mount shape inside the wheel varies with 5 and 6 spoke hubs.
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Old 06-24-2020, 01:53 PM   #9
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Do you already have the 4.44 rear diff to go in your present axle?
I found one. It's indiana or some **** though. I think he said 850 shipped.
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Old 06-24-2020, 01:55 PM   #10
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So how much would a super single axle from a wrecked semi cost? I would think it would be a fairly straight forward axle swap, and getting the gear ratio you want should be easier too. Roll your cost of gear swap, brake swap, rim fabrication, and tires all into buying a complete axle from a wrecking yard, probably cheaper and way easier.

I'm just guessing here, going off my days of off-road fabrication experience.
Yeah idk about all that. I've got hydro brakes too to throw another wrench in the works.
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Old 06-24-2020, 01:59 PM   #11
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Because the rears on dayton rims have to have both rims and a spacer to clamp the whole assembly in place, how would you acomadate that in a single rim? Or do you plan to run a bare rim on the inside then a spacer then the super single rim?
I'm not certain honestly. Accuride made these 22.5 x 12.25 13 and 14 in different offsets. I'm assuming the shape of the inside of the wheel fits the rear Dayton correctly. They have them listed as fronts and rears separately. I can have them made for 900 for a pair. So 5000 is way more than I would spend. 900 plus a pair of tires is it it looks like. So closer to 2000. Not sure it's worth it though.

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Old 06-24-2020, 02:09 PM   #12
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What is the benefit to running super singles vs duals? I kinda like the idea if one tire blows I have a second that will hopefully hold.
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Not talking about rim diameter. I'm talking about the way they mount to the hub/spoked center part. I've read some thing about 15. The one accuride sale ad I saw said 6 spoke. I assume heavier weight rating so I don't know if the wheel mount shape inside the wheel varies with 5 and 6 spoke hubs.
My bus has 5 spokes on the rear and 6 spokes on the front, they both take the same rim. So at least in my case the wheel mount shape is the same.

Must say I too like duals so that I have a spare for short distances if need be.
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:07 PM   #14
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Advantage 1. is tolls, some places charge by axle but some charge an extra with duals. In my area there is some big ones so double fir an axle(well, duals counted as an axle)sucks. 2. is only buying 2 tires for the rear.
3. supposed to ride and handle better. I do agree that having a spare is good that can be swap front or rear. I didn't really think about that but I guess I'd be screwed if I got a flat on the super. I'll probably carry two spares though to be perfectly honest I guess I could just throw them both on in a flat super situation. I have 4 extra Wheels and tires.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:30 PM   #15
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Your rear only has 5 spokes because it is running 2 wheels directly on the hub, the front has 6 because it needs the extra strength to cantilever a single wheel off a narrower drum. A single wheel might compromise that situation on the rear, everything is on the wheel studs then. Also if you have a flat on a super single you are done, you can't run on it at all or it gets ruined. You will have to feel or hear it immediately and get right over on the side of the road or you will be buying a tire and wheel. Duals are better because if you lose one the other will stay up till you get to a shoulder. The trucks I am around are twin screws with air bags that push the blown wheel directly to the ground and ruins the outside of the wheel, there are ruined wheels laying everywhere around the shop so they don't run any SS now. On the road a new wheel and tire are $1500, not everyone stocks super singles so out in the boonies your are waiting for a big city tire guy to show up. Duals are a better deal in the long run.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:55 PM   #16
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Can you handle "the truth", offered in all kindness?
The only item your bus has going for it is the stick shift.
Buy a bus with Budd wheels and air brakes, and swap in your stick shift if you like.
Avoid newer than mid-90s so you can make certain to buy a "mechanical" engine (free of electronic controls).

And for dawg's sake... forget the super-singles. They are good for only one highly specialized purpose: to squeeze another 800 pounds of payload onto a commercial truck without breaking the 80,000 pound legal maximum.
When a ss fails, you will be stuck right there, whether the road has a shoulder or not.
The great value of dual tires is that you can usually make it to the next town on only one.

27 years of cross-country trucking has belched.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:34 PM   #17
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Well said Elliot!
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Old 07-01-2020, 07:09 PM   #18
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Super singles

The other thing to take into account with super singles is the outside width of the rubber. You dual axle is meant to have a certain amount of tread both inside and outside of the centerline of the hub. If you put a super single on your axle and it is centered it will be too narrow for stability purposes. If you have it offset so it is as wide as the original tread you will put too much load on the bearings or studs. The axles need to be made for super singles.

An example, I had a dumpster truck that had 10,000 pound tires on it and when I needed new wheels I got duallys that were inset a few inches too much. I continuously had studs breaking off several times on both sides. We finally narrowed it down to the fact I needed a wider track where the wheel was centered on the hub. Problem solved and no more broken studs.
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Old 07-04-2020, 05:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Naess View Post
Can you handle "the truth", offered in all kindness?
The only item your bus has going for it is the stick shift.
Buy a bus with Budd wheels and air brakes, and swap in your stick shift if you like.
Avoid newer than mid-90s so you can make certain to buy a "mechanical" engine (free of electronic controls).

And for dawg's sake... forget the super-singles. They are good for only one highly specialized purpose: to squeeze another 800 pounds of payload onto a commercial truck without breaking the 80,000 pound legal maximum.
When a ss fails, you will be stuck right there, whether the road has a shoulder or not.
The great value of dual tires is that you can usually make it to the next town on only one.

27 years of cross-country trucking has belched.

This is the way.
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