Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-30-2016, 09:38 PM   #1
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 12,860
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Do i need to gut the bus?

and then put it back together?

I see the first thing everyone does is gut their bus down do the bare sticks..

I understand why the seats come out and such.. and sometimes sidewalls or ceilings if wanting wood or something to attach to...

im keeping my bus, well alot like a Bus, so I want that metal ceiling metal sidewalls and even some of the seats will stay..

i'll be attaching a couple new seats and a table for a dinette and on the other side will be the A/C, a mini frig and maybe a micro and the technology / electrical rack... then over top of that will be a work table space with foldable short sides (fold up on hnges so stuff cant slide off the table while driving..) and a rollable shade to run across to keep the dust down..

otherwise thats my build.. other than the dashboard and driver control area that will be torn down, rebuilt,repaired, updated.. techno-fied..

trying to figure out if and why I would need to pull down all my ceiling metal, replace the insulation and then put all the ceiling panels back up..

im assuming the only reason people pull them down and re-insulate is because they plan to live (permanent or temporary{camp}) in the bus

whereas I plan to run it more like a mobile Lab and such.. where the only sleeping I do is short naps off the road.. and only living I do is when im working on a project ill be in it a couple hours at a time parked.. otherwise it will be on the road or in storage if im not running it as a lab or taking my friends out for a night on the town.. (what better way to be a DD than take the bus)..

it looks like it would be tough to pull the panels down and then put the same ones back up without damaging them or the screw holes that hold them up... and I really dont want a wood ceiling...

your thoughts??

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2016, 10:03 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 21,547
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
and then put it back together?

I see the first thing everyone does is gut their bus down do the bare sticks..

I understand why the seats come out and such.. and sometimes sidewalls or ceilings if wanting wood or something to attach to...

im keeping my bus, well alot like a Bus, so I want that metal ceiling metal sidewalls and even some of the seats will stay..

i'll be attaching a couple new seats and a table for a dinette and on the other side will be the A/C, a mini frig and maybe a micro and the technology / electrical rack... then over top of that will be a work table space with foldable short sides (fold up on hnges so stuff cant slide off the table while driving..) and a rollable shade to run across to keep the dust down..

otherwise thats my build.. other than the dashboard and driver control area that will be torn down, rebuilt,repaired, updated.. techno-fied..

trying to figure out if and why I would need to pull down all my ceiling metal, replace the insulation and then put all the ceiling panels back up..

im assuming the only reason people pull them down and re-insulate is because they plan to live (permanent or temporary{camp}) in the bus

whereas I plan to run it more like a mobile Lab and such.. where the only sleeping I do is short naps off the road.. and only living I do is when im working on a project ill be in it a couple hours at a time parked.. otherwise it will be on the road or in storage if im not running it as a lab or taking my friends out for a night on the town.. (what better way to be a DD than take the bus)..

it looks like it would be tough to pull the panels down and then put the same ones back up without damaging them or the screw holes that hold them up... and I really dont want a wood ceiling...

your thoughts??

-Christopher
If you're not turning it into a residence or even a bonafide RV, then removing the ceilings and such isn't really worth it.
I just try to steer full timers into properly insulating so they don't have to live in hot or cold tin shacks, especially when pets or kids are involved.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 05:50 AM   #3
Bus Crazy
 
Scooternj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: EHT New Jersey
Posts: 1,134
Year: 2003
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International 3000RE
Engine: T444E/AT545
Rated Cap: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
If you're not turning it into a residence or even a bonafide RV, then removing the ceilings and such isn't really worth it.
I just try to steer full timers into properly insulating so they don't have to live in hot or cold tin shacks, especially when pets or kids are involved.
I'm not planning on full-timing, but I *still* want proper insulation and a mold free environment.
__________________
Hey! That's not an RV, that's a school bus.
Well thank you for noticing, Captain Obvious

Captain Obvious on deviantArt
Scooternj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 05:52 AM   #4
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 21,547
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooternj View Post
I'm not planning on full-timing, but I *still* want proper insulation and a mold free environment.
Me too, man.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 06:26 AM   #5
Bus Nut
 
superdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: hills of sw virginia
Posts: 889
Year: 1996
Chassis: thomas
Engine: 8.3 cummins
Rated Cap: 11 window
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooternj View Post
I'm not planning on full-timing, but I *still* want proper insulation and a mold free environment.
mold is everywhere,you breath it every day, your lungs can handle it.
__________________
living in a bus down by the river.
my build pics
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/membe...albums942.html
superdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 09:00 AM   #6
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 12,860
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
what are the "law of averages" that the ceiling panels can be pulled down and put back up in a school bus?

ie that the screws actually come out without damaging the holes... or are they riveted in place?(I dont have the bus yet so I havent notice on mine but I THINK they were screws)...

from the sound of it you all are saying that the ceiling insulation is full of mold and mildew? is it just from age? the ceiling doesnt leak in the bus, other than a few drops where the roof hatch doesnt latch down quite right...

at least when I looked at the bus it had rained HARD all night and the morning I got there but no water in the bus..

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 09:27 AM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
M1031A1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Quinter, Kansas - Soon South Dakota!
Posts: 1,434
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner ER
Engine: 3208 CAT/MT643 tranny
Rated Cap: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
what are the "law of averages" that the ceiling panels can be pulled down and put back up in a school bus?

ie that the screws actually come out without damaging the holes... or are they riveted in place?(I dont have the bus yet so I havent notice on mine but I THINK they were screws)...

from the sound of it you all are saying that the ceiling insulation is full of mold and mildew? is it just from age? the ceiling doesnt leak in the bus, other than a few drops where the roof hatch doesnt latch down quite right...

at least when I looked at the bus it had rained HARD all night and the morning I got there but no water in the bus..

-Christopher
Christopher,

It all depends upon the manufacturer. Some use only rivets, others only use screws, and others like to mix the two. For example, my 1989 Thomas was all screws. My former daily driver (I now work for Houston Metro, not Katy ISD anymore) was a 2000 Thomas with a mix of both. Thomas changed assembly techniques between those years. However, I know both have mold issues. Since my family will be full-timing once the build is complete the insulation had to go. It also has given me to opportunity to see where hidden leaks are in the roof. This last major rain helped reveal exactly where I had issues. If I had not taken down the panels and insulation the water would have been absorbed by the insulation and I would have been none the wiser thinking my roof was water tight.

This is just me. Since I'm going to be living in my bus for many years to come I want the best for me and my family. Since you have different objectives in mind, build accordingly.

Just my two cents......

M1031
__________________
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American peopleís liberty teeth and keystone under independence. ó George Washington
M1031A1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 11:09 AM   #8
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
If you're never going to use your bus during cold or hot weather, you're fine. Even with the 45k refer in your bus I'd still be apprehensive about a virtually uninsulated metal box. If you're driving around as much as you're talking about, at some point you're going to be to hot or to cold. You may not mind energy costs for heating and cooling if you're taking just temporary trips, but at some time you're almost guaranteed to wish you had insulated.

I also have no complaints about the metallic interior of a bus. It's a perfectly durable finish, however this bus has perforated interior panels that allow condensation to drip through during the winter. Dangerous for electronics.
I have three and a half rows of rivets out on my ceiling panels and I don't believe it would be worth attempting to reinstall them. They get a little chewed up looking from the pneumatic chisel, but you could make it work. They just won't ever look the same. I decided the condensation issue was worth fixing.
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 11:13 AM   #9
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 21,547
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
what are the "law of averages" that the ceiling panels can be pulled down and put back up in a school bus?

ie that the screws actually come out without damaging the holes... or are they riveted in place?(I dont have the bus yet so I havent notice on mine but I THINK they were screws)...

from the sound of it you all are saying that the ceiling insulation is full of mold and mildew? is it just from age? the ceiling doesnt leak in the bus, other than a few drops where the roof hatch doesnt latch down quite right...

at least when I looked at the bus it had rained HARD all night and the morning I got there but no water in the bus..

-Christopher
I'd bet money on them not going back up the same, and putting up a huge fight.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 11:19 AM   #10
Bus Crazy
 
Scooternj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: EHT New Jersey
Posts: 1,134
Year: 2003
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International 3000RE
Engine: T444E/AT545
Rated Cap: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
what are the "law of averages" that the ceiling panels can be pulled down and put back up in a school bus?

ie that the screws actually come out without damaging the holes... or are they riveted in place?(I dont have the bus yet so I havent notice on mine but I THINK they were screws)...
PCS did this on his bus. IIRC, he swore he'd never do it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
from the sound of it you all are saying that the ceiling insulation is full of mold and mildew? is it just from age? the ceiling doesnt leak in the bus, other than a few drops where the roof hatch doesnt latch down quite right...

at least when I looked at the bus it had rained HARD all night and the morning I got there but no water in the bus..

-Christopher
There's the possibility of the insulation acting as a sponge, so no leaks. It's best to get up in there and pull it out, IMHO, to even see if there are any leaks up there. Especially around where the strobe used to be- if one was installed
__________________
Hey! That's not an RV, that's a school bus.
Well thank you for noticing, Captain Obvious

Captain Obvious on deviantArt
Scooternj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 12:07 PM   #11
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
I don't know about the rest of you, but many of my rivet holes are all stretched out. I had to use some small lag bolts to temporarily hold up the panels.
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 02:16 PM   #12
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 12,860
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
the common theme seems to be that I should down the ceiling and replace the insulation but that my ceiling isnt likely to go back in...

I REALLY am dead set against a wooden ceiling.. I just dont like the look... I like my bus to feel like a bus...

what are alternatives of something i can put up that still lets me feel like I have a bus?

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 03:05 PM   #13
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
There are a lot of Formica type products in many finishes (including metals) that could be applied using minimal wood to attach it to.

There are also quite a few vinyl plank and wall covering items that come in a wide array of choices. I will be using vinyl planks on my walls in a light, birds-eye maple look to keep things bright (but then, I like the wood look). Also easy to install and clean.

And there are some really durable commercial & architectural wall coverings out there too that mimic everything from metal to bamboo to stone to you name it. Almost too many choices.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 03:13 PM   #14
Bus Nut
 
Jolly Roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 651
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
I stripped the floor and followed the leaks until I found where. They were and followed the trail and that is the only steel or insulation that was replaced and it was replaced with duct board fibreglass insulation that was available to me at the time and cleaned and sealed every roof/body seam thereafter with no farther issues and I don't plan on camping in anything colder than the winters of NC or TEXAS or anything between?
It ain't the bus it's me.
Jolly Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 03:15 PM   #15
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
Depending on how nice of a job you do of removing your ceiling panels you may be able to replace them after you've insulated. I think it's to much trouble and they are always going to have the chisel marks on the surface edges of the panels. I do like the durability of bus interiors and was trying to think of a way to insulate without taking the panels down by injecting spray foam. It has been tried. The old insulation gets in the way. I slowly came to the conclusion that to retain heat/cold I will need insulation. I don't know what I'm using for an interior after I've insulated.

One thing I'm wanting to try is making a 2' x 20' awning for each side of the bus that will only cover the windows when folded against the side of the bus. Similar to tinning over the windows, but like an awning that could be raised to either completely cover or expose the windows for full window access and visibility. Each awning cover could contain insulation, and it may be possible to mount smaller solar panels on them.
I never said I always have good ideas.
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 03:20 PM   #16
Bus Nut
 
Dapplecreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: near Christiansburg VA
Posts: 692
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 44 or 66? 11 rows
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
...what are alternatives of something i can put up that still lets me feel like I have a bus?
You might consider the whiteboard-like material available at Lowe's for cheap: it's smooth and white and will bend, and 4'x8'. It's used a lot for walls in gas station restrooms. Hm. Well, it might be useful...

To keep cool (with or without roof insulation), consider too a shade setup over the top of your rig. Does wonders, from what I've read.
Dapplecreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 04:32 PM   #17
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
Bing Mr Creek. Vehicles outfitted for hot environments have a second roof with an air gap in between. I've been looking at that for years, and it's not that much further expense wise to make a deck up there.


Ok, no art jokes.

A deck on top of the bus that also acts as a sun shade for the roof of the bus. Deck rails that also fold down and cover the windows, or they can be positioned like a small awning to keep sun from blaring through the bus.

This is the only thing that I've thought of but haven't seen anybody try already on this site.
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 06:53 PM   #18
Bus Nut
 
REDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: ...little north of Toronto Ontario
Posts: 606
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Thomsass
Chassis: FreightShaker
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 5 speed
Rated Cap: 2 ATV's and friends
IMG_4100.JPG


....it had crossed my mind using an old stake and rack style trailer for parts. Fab some mounting brackets for each side of the bus, aluminum cross bars, and a white tarp....all removable for road trips. Air flow between the tarp and roof.


...also not removing steel ceiling, toy hauler/camper use.
REDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 07:22 PM   #19
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 12,860
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by REDD View Post
Attachment 10058


....it had crossed my mind using an old stake and rack style trailer for parts. Fab some mounting brackets for each side of the bus, aluminum cross bars, and a white tarp....all removable for road trips. Air flow between the tarp and roof.


...also not removing steel ceiling, toy hauler/camper use.
cool idea for insulating the roof.. almost like an umbrella effect.. only issue would be if the wind caught it.. or maybe its a material that blocks alot of sunlight but can still breathe so less likely to be caught by the wind..

I kind of like the idea of the wall protection material.. we see it often in Service hallways of Hotels.. easy to clean and still has that modern feel...

I could place the panels into some HVAC Z-channel.. which could give them room to flex as the bus does.. I do know when it gets really cold that the wall protection material becomes brittle.. if it were not screwed down itself (but the Z-channel is) then it has a chance of not breaking...

ive watched them try to work with it in the cold breaking it when trying to cut it for install...

its an idea..

of course lots of speculation for a bus that I dont have in front of my house yet.. im having the body work done on it professionally since I dont have the facilities or knowledge of how to fix rust and paint a bus in a multi-color scheme...

I do know when I was inside it down in warm humid rainy florida to drive it and go over it, that it didnt smell musty inside like some of the busses i had looked at in the ast couple months.. so perhaps im one of the lucky ones that doesnt have a lot of mildew to contend with..

we will know soon though because the only spring / summer allergy I ever get is to Molds.. so If I drive it with the windows closed and start to stuff up and sniffle I'll know there are molds / mildews I need to rectify..

I may pull down a single panel and see what the insulation looks like.. I should be able to pull one down without destroying it to see what im dealing with...

for climate control im not too worried.. im installing a 50,000 BTU A/C in a 7 row bus, and it has 5 Heaters in it already, plus the A/C unit I got has a heater core in it which I will hook up... that allows me to use the A/C in cold or rainy weather to dehumidify and then re-heat... similar to what is done in most cars these days... and for what i did a LOT of work to my last bus to make happen.. pre-cooled defrosters...

I never thought once about removing the ceiling in that old bluebird.. and I never had a problem with it.. sometimes I wonder if too much knowledge creates undue stree over a portion of a project...

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2016, 09:11 PM   #20
Bus Geek
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
The old Range Rover safari models came equipped with a standoff roof. Simple idea that works. Attach a sheet of metal (aluminum, in their case) a few inches above the factory roof to allow airflow and viola..the rig is always in the shade. Makes a HUGE difference. I will be building a roof deck to accomplish the same thing.
Tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×