EPS Stop Engine, Check Trans

[bb12489]

I really appreciate all the help on this. I'll update more when I can get back out to the bus.

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by ewo1

How about trying something really old school... jumper cables!

Good, large gauge, quality jumper cables! Not the el cheapos you'll generall find at WalMart. Though anything is better than nothing.

I have been using the same set since 1992. They were military surplus and are HUGE gauge intended to be used for starting anything in the Marine Corps inventory at that time including tanks. They're basically welding cables with battery post clamps on the ends. The military changed over to a "NATO" cable with polarized plugs on the end to reduce damage and injuries from improper use of the cables. I love them because I could pull up to a car with only access to the rear end and those cables would reach the front and deliver every bit of available power to the dead battery.

They don't get loaned out, they are kept in a lock box, and while I may need to change the terminal clamps one day, they ROCK

[bb12489]

So I checked the voltage on both batteries. Battery 1 is 12.40v and battery 2 is 12.48v. I connected them back up so I could pull any codes from the shift panel.

it read out code D1 35 00

I haven't gotten to check any of the other wiring yet since it decided to downpour just now. I did check over the cables in the battery compartment and can't see any damage. The terminals and connectors are also clean and making good contact.

[bb12489]

So check the batteries one more time and one is reading 12.34 and the other is 12.40. I just dropped them off at the advance Auto that I bought them from to have them charged up. They were little reluctant because the guy behind the counter said that since it's a 12 volt battery, anything above 12 volts should be fine and I tried to tell him that it needs to read higher than 12.4 and definitely higher than 12.3.

[bb12489]

I got the batteries back from advanced and they read 12.8 on my meter and I hooked them back up to the bus and still getting the check trans light

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by bb12489

I got the batteries back from advanced and they read 12.8 on my meter and I hooked them back up to the bus and still getting the check trans light

Oh, so now it starts ? Is that what you trying to say?

You gotta handle these things one piece at a time and in order please….

Also, on your pics, I didn’t see the fuses for the ECU and TCM.

Have you physically checked each of those fuses.

If you don’t check them, then you can’t go forward.
I believe your TCM might be good cause the push pad displays an “N” when you turn the key but your ECU fuse is in question.

Believe it or not, you CAN pop a fuse simply by connecting new batteries. Noise, a spike on the line, could potentially be enough to pop a fast acting fuse.

This is why it is an important step in the troubleshooting process.

Also did you ever check, open up an clean, the negative cable connection on the frame itself?



There is a logical order for troubleshooting and if you decide to skip some steps, we’ll then…. Good luck!

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by bb12489

So I checked the voltage on both batteries. Battery 1 is 12.40v and battery 2 is 12.48v. I connected them back up so I could pull any codes from the shift panel.

it read out code D1 35 00

.

code d1 35 00 definition is "power interruption" to the electronic shift control.

Probably a result from removing the TCM.

Also, I don’t believe this is the problem, but go back to starting the bus on one battery instead of 2. Let’s eliminate those smaller wires and go back to just the big fat OEM cables.

You never know but what if one of those smaller cables were crimped poorly ?

Does the relay still rattle and buzz?

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by bb12489

I got the batteries back from advanced and they read 12.8 on my meter and I hooked them back up to the bus and still getting the check trans light

If the bus still will not crank could you post another short video showing the dash lights/gauges during at least two key cycles? The first was helpful but still would like to see the dash.
I assume that you have checked the wiring from the battery box to the starter and ground and all was ok. Also double check to make sure the rubber on the bottom of the cable ends don't interfere with battery terminal contact.
Like ewo1, I'm pretty certain the transmission code is not affecting the starting but is a wiring issue. Have you tried to clear the trans code?

[bb12489]

Originally Posted by ewo1

Oh, so now it starts ? Is that what you trying to say?

You gotta handle these things one piece at a time and in order please….

Also, on your pics, I didn’t see the fuses for the ECU and TCM.

Have you physically checked each of those fuses.

If you don’t check them, then you can’t go forward.
I believe your TCM might be good cause the push pad displays an “N” when you turn the key but your ECU fuse is in question.

Believe it or not, you CAN pop a fuse simply by connecting new batteries. Noise, a spike on the line, could potentially be enough to pop a fast acting fuse.

This is why it is an important step in the troubleshooting process.

Also did you ever check, open up an clean, the negative cable connection on the frame itself?



There is a logical order for troubleshooting and if you decide to skip some steps, we’ll then…. Good luck!

No the bus still does not start. It gets power to the dash, and the starter clicks, but there is still the check trans and EPS stop engine lights illuminated.

I had limited time at the bus (late in the evening) when I got the batteries back from Advanced. I was only able to hook them back up, check the voltage, and then checkout the shifter pad for codes. I'll be going back this afternoon to check over the fluid levels, fuses, and ground wires to the frame. I did clear the code on the shift pad, but that didn't make any difference. The code hasn't appeared again though.

Will these fuses all be in the side electrical panel? Or somewhere on the frame? I'm still learning where everything is located on this bus, so it's taking me longer than normal to test things. Apologies if I'm doing things out of order. I initially didn't have all the tools I needed when I first found out about this issue.

Originally Posted by BamaBus

If the bus still will not crank could you post another short video showing the dash lights/gauges during at least two key cycles? The first was helpful but still would like to see the dash.
I assume that you have checked the wiring from the battery box to the starter and ground and all was ok. Also double check to make sure the rubber on the bottom of the cable ends don't interfere with battery terminal contact.
Like ewo1, I'm pretty certain the transmission code is not affecting the starting but is a wiring issue. Have you tried to clear the trans code?

I'll be checking the ground connections, and the connection to the starter this afternoon. I can show another video of the dash for sure. The check trans and EPS Stop Engine lights are on whenever I turn the key over. when I try to start the bus, I hear the starter click, but the engine itself won't crank. I did clear the code on the shift pad, and it hasn't made a difference.

From what I've been able to gather, the EPS (Engine protection system?) will keep the engine from turning over because of a few different possible issues. I just have to narrow those issues down now.

[BamaBus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP32Clt0wMQ

See this video showing the check trans light and eps light on prior to cranking then starting.
I think the EPS light is for the oil pressure gauge showing 0 psi which will change after cranking. The pegging volt gauge could be defective since it seemed to start from a higher voltage than your meter read.

[bb12489]

Originally Posted by BamaBus

See this video showing the check trans light and eps light on prior to cranking then starting.
I think the EPS light is for the oil pressure gauge showing 0 psi which will change after cranking. The pegging volt gauge could be defective since it seemed to start from a higher voltage than your meter read.

Interesting. Yeah I get all those lights, but when I go to crank it, I just hear clicking. The engine won't turn over.

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by bb12489

Interesting. Yeah I get all those lights, but when I go to crank it, I just hear clicking. The engine won't turn over.

My intention was to show you that the trans light and eps light is not your problem with cranking as you eluded to earlier. Since I'm not there and may be missing something, all I can go on is that you installed some batteries and messed with the tcm. In either case you may have inadvertently caused a bad connection or short.
When you used the metal handled socket drive did you cause any arcing? The check engine light comes on so I don't think the ecm is fried. You have reinstalled the batteries so I assume that you checked that the wires you have are making good contact with battery. The sound that I hear is what I have heard before and that relates to a bad connection or starter solenoid. If there was any safety related issue you wouldn't get anything when the key was turned.

[bb12489]

Originally Posted by BamaBus

My intention was to show you that the trans light and eps light is not your problem with cranking as you eluded to earlier. Since I'm not there and may be missing something, all I can go on is that you installed some batteries and messed with the tcm. In either case you may have inadvertently caused a bad connection or short.
When you used the metal handled socket drive did you cause any arcing? The check engine light comes on so I don't think the ecm is fried. You have reinstalled the batteries so I assume that you checked that the wires you have are making good contact with battery. The sound that I hear is what I have heard before and that relates to a bad connection or starter solenoid. If there was any safety related issue you wouldn't get anything when the key was turned.

I haven't noticed any arching when I was attaching the batteries.

I tried connecting one battery up tonight after cleaning all cables end with a wire wheel. Made sure the connections were tight. I also traced back the cables from the battery box to the starter. I measured the voltage there to be the same as the voltage at the batteries.

I'm not sure where the larger fuses would be located that were mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for in that regard.

Tried turning the key over to start and still just getting clicks. I took a new video of that, and I also noticed what I think is the ECM flashing some lights in an odd way. Both videos are linked below.

I think I might have to find someone local to Asheville area that can take a look and give me a hand.

Starting Video

ECM Video

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by bb12489

I haven't noticed any arching when I was attaching the batteries.

I tried connecting one battery up tonight after cleaning all cables end with a wire wheel. Made sure the connections were tight. I also traced back the cables from the battery box to the starter. I measured the voltage there to be the same as the voltage at the batteries.

I'm not sure where the larger fuses would be located that were mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for in that regard.

Tried turning the key over to start and still just getting clicks. I took a new video of that, and I also noticed what I think is the ECM flashing some lights in an odd way. Both videos are linked below.

I think I might have to find someone local to Asheville area that can take a look and give me a hand.

Starting Video

ECM Video

Ok so one battery, no good.

Still clicking at the starter ?

One thing you could try, jumping the starter at the starter solenoid itself.
I can tell your not experienced but this is something any backyard mechanic can do.

If it starts then you have a bad wire/ connection somewhere, heck maybe even the key switch itself.

If it does not start, I still feel like it’s a bad connection, maybe a bad starter?

To find the fuses for the Ecu and Tcm, follow the little red wire from the battery. Follow it till you find an inline fuse holder. There should be 2 fuses.

On my friends bus we found the TCM fuse sandwiched between the bus frame rail and bus body right under the brake pedal valve.
It was not visible, I had to follow the wire with my fingers and once found I had to cut the tie wrap that was holding it in place there.

Don’t give up, free your mind of frustration and soon you will be laughing about it !

[BamaBus]

The sound and that rapid movement of the voltmeter indicates that there is a failure in the current. Look for a loose/cut wire, corroded connection at the starter, starter relay or anywhere from battery to starter. It could be a bad relay. Don't know where the relay is for your bus but it could be in the panel at the drivers window. Is this a flat nose? If not, then it could be under the hood. There was someone here with a flat nose that had a loose relay in the engine area which surprised me there was one there. You may be able to swap the relay with some less important one if it has the same markings or temporarily jump past relay altogether.

[HamSkoolie]

It seems that if the starter is clicking after tracing all the battery cables (including ground side) to non corroded connections and having the batteries charged but the starter is still just clicking that it's time to do that jump start on the starter.
Check YouTube University and there's almost sure to be a video on how to do that in general. Just be super careful.
If the starter turns, you're still looking for a problem in the starting circuitry but you have eliminated the batteries and battery cables. You haven't eliminated to wiring to computers though.

If the starter clicks, it's time to pull the starter and take it to a parts store or shop that can test it for you. It could be as simple as a starter solenoid.


Here's just one video, your layout is likely different but the concept is the same. As long as your batteries are charged and the cables are good this will tell you if your starter is the problem. I'd use a bit larger wire and put it to the solenoid first and THEN the positive so there's no reaching in with a hot wire. Good solid alligator clip on the end at the solenoid can be helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICsSGoZBhuo

[bb12489]

So we're back out at the bus and I've been checking over the starter. That's definitely where the clicking sound is coming from. I've looked at various YouTube videos of jumping a starter, but mine looks very different than what I've seen online. I'm just trying to make sure I know which post to jump to what. I've attached some images below.

[bb12489]

Just wanted to provide everyone an update. We purchased a new Denso starter, which is the same type that original was on the bus. Two bolts and 30mins later and we have a running bus!

[ewo1]

Originally Posted by bb12489

Just wanted to provide everyone an update. We purchased a new Denso starter, which is the same type that original was on the bus. Two bolts and 30mins later and we have a running bus!

Great news!
You are now an official backyard skoolie mechanic!

[bb12489]

Originally Posted by ewo1

Great news!
You are now an official backyard skoolie mechanic!

For some reason I thought this would be more involved. Now to move on to actually building out the bus!