FL to OR to Buy a Bus

[cadillackid]

these views are familiar!! every family vacation we took growing up was trekking from ohio to the west.. colorado mountains.. utah deserts... arches national park, canyonlands.. death valley, salt lake, yellowstone, big sur, 4 corners, sand dunes, mountain switchbacks and hiking were alot of what we did.. definitely so much different from the east!!!! back then we did a lot of 4 wheeling before everyone had a 4WD... lots of comradarie out there in the west when you travel... its wilderness and people look out for each other..



lots different from I-10 near florida where i was the only one who stopped to help a semi truck that was obviously starting to catch fire... people just drove by..


the west is very different and the scenery is awesome!!

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by nikitis

Ok, so that's good then, sounds like a wiring/switch issue, I agree. So follow back whatever wire was originally hooked to that red wire then and check the other side. Do continuity tests too if you gotta, maybe wire was cut somewhere in the middle, or bad switch, or bad power getting to the switch on the otherside of it.

If you can't figure it out, you may can rig a rocker switch and use that to go into high once you're at 35mph, so like below:

Battery -> Wire -> Rocker Switch (SPDP), then other point on switch -> Wire -> Red wire on solenoid.

Then to operate, instead of switching on the manual stick. (Or wherever you switched normally from low to high), you just flip the rocker switch and you're in high.

But if you do this, remember when you slow down below 35mph to flip the rocker switch off. So now you're using the rocker to switch between high and low. It's a cheap workaround, but may get you through to fix it later.

I was out of town for a bit, and not checking in on the forum. Just want to note that normal driving without a load the rear is normally always in high. With a heavy load then split shifting each gear is normal.


Yes a rocker switch is a good work around if the switch is bad. I have had the contacts inside the shift mechanism fail, then do this. Remove the cover for the shifter, and manually spin the shaft to shift it into either high or low then put the cover back on. In this case remove the fuse so it does not get shifted back or shift while playing with it. This cover is the odd shaped flat cover on the rear next to the motor. By the way it is filled to the plug on the side with 20wt oil. About 4oz.



I have one apart that I can take some pictures of for future reference.

[nikitis]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

I was out of town for a bit, and not checking in on the forum. Just want to note that normal driving without a load the rear is normally always in high. With a heavy load then split shifting each gear is normal.


Yes a rocker switch is a good work around if the switch is bad. I have had the contacts inside the shift mechanism fail, then do this. Remove the cover for the shifter, and manually spin the shaft to shift it into either high or low then put the cover back on. In this case remove the fuse so it does not get shifted back or shift while playing with it. This cover is the odd shaped flat cover on the rear next to the motor. By the way it is filled to the plug on the side with 20wt oil. About 4oz.



I have one apart that I can take some pictures of for future reference.

I'd like to see pictures for sure. I'm still figuring some of this out.

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

I was out of town for a bit, and not checking in on the forum. Just want to note that normal driving without a load the rear is normally always in high. With a heavy load then split shifting each gear is normal.


Yes a rocker switch is a good work around if the switch is bad. I have had the contacts inside the shift mechanism fail, then do this. Remove the cover for the shifter, and manually spin the shaft to shift it into either high or low then put the cover back on. In this case remove the fuse so it does not get shifted back or shift while playing with it. This cover is the odd shaped flat cover on the rear next to the motor. By the way it is filled to the plug on the side with 20wt oil. About 4oz.



I have one apart that I can take some pictures of for future reference.

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That is a terrific explanation, Ronnie. I haven't needed to use the low ratio at all. Noah has a tremendous amount of power climbing steepest grades in fifth gear. First is an optional granny gear. I only use it when I'm waiting at an uphill stoplight. It truely is geared perfectly. Probably overpowered, if that's a real thing.

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Tonight, I'm in Texas. A few miles southeast of Lubbock, staying at Buffalo Springs Lake until morning.



Earlier today, Noah wanted to stop and look at the big girls at the local bus corral. I took this photo while he was rapping it up with the Collins girl on the other side of the fence. Lol. He's obviously too old for her.

[Kentucky Dreaming]

I'm too old for most of the girls. And a branch of my family is loaded with Collins girls. Their dad died from black lung in the southeast Kentucky coal mines. Glad you and Noah are making good time!! keep burning the miles and get back to your Happy Place, my pal!!

[DeMac]

Another photo from Buffalo Spring Lake, Texas. Taken this morning before I left. This is a beautiful campground. State or county operated. This is a super nice park, I wish I could have brought the whole family for a few days.



I stopped on the roadside traveling through Sweetwater, TX. I had never seen so many wind tubines. There must be thousands of them there.



By 6:30pm I had reached Killeen, TX where I'm visiting my brother (from-another-mother). I have a busy day tomorrow, but I will be stalking Ewol soon. He lives near my brother. I can literally walk to his shop from here.

[cadillackid]

awesome pics and progress!!.. most defiitely meet up with ewol if you get the chance!!!!

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

awesome pics and progress!!.. most defiitely meet up with ewol if you get the chance!!!!

---------------
After my appointment, I went to Ewo1's and hung out for a few hours. He has an awesome set up at his shop. We're already making plans for a road trip.

[nikitis]

Originally Posted by DeMac

---------------
After my appointment, I went to Ewo1's and hung out for a few hours. He has an awesome set up at his shop. We're already making plans for a road trip.

Is he gonna follow you to Florida?

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by nikitis

Is he gonna follow you to Florida?

-----------------


Well, Ewol does have sixth gear unlocked. But yeah, I might be following him to Florida.

[nikitis]

Originally Posted by DeMac

-----------------


Well, Ewol does have sixth gear unlocked. But yeah, I might be following him to Florida.

I dunno, he tends to break down on I-10 a lot, you may give him a run for his money.

[ewo1]

Lol, don’t forget I-75 and S.R. 821 in Fla. too!

But….
Zero calls for a tow truck !
Fixed them all myself with the knowledge you all here help me get !!!

Edjumication my friend !!!

[Albatross]

Originally Posted by nikitis

Because you don’t just limit your knowledge to what’s in a manual, you can go beyond the manual if you understand the nature of it, or understand why something was done that way, and then you have a good foundation to build something great upon it.

This is something that is incredibly important to understand, IMHO. I've met a ton of old guys that stick to OEM everything, and sure, they're usually able to keep their old pickups or whatever running for years beyond most people, but I also think that it's important to understand the mindset behind why certain engines or certain vehicles are built certain ways... And sadly, too often, there's an account or business-major behind the decisions, often to keep costs down while mass-producing something.



Sure, engineers are smart people, and oftentimes smarter than the people working on them, but most of the time they don't actually see the end-user experience, much less have an understanding (or care) of the guy that's a fleet-mechanic and is seeing the end-results of saving a few bucks in the manufacturing process and specifically how it affects things 100K miles down the road. But it's when you understand the whole process start-to-finish, and understand the reasons why certain materials or certain devices were selected for production that you really start to gain the ability to put together something that is truly spectacular... Though it often requires more money, and usually a lot more time, and sometimes, it involves some custom-made parts.



I've been chastised a number of times by such guys for the arrogance of thinking I know better than the engineers that built a vehicle I'm working on, but I've also managed to average more than 20 mpg in a V6 ranger that manages to produce more power than stock, and can beat some mustangs off a starting line. And while my non-turbo diesel bus may have no balls, my engine is a monster that doesn't ever quit, even if it runs slower than most people might like. I'll probably never stop experimenting trying to make things better, so things are what they are, and I'm always looking to learn something new.

[cadillackid]

Many of the diesel engines in our busses are a perfect example of where OEM wasn’t always best. Remember engineers design things to run and last and produce good power.. then the EPA says it needs to meet certain emission specs .. then the bean counters say it needs to meet certain cost requirements ..

Now that once venerable design by engineers is a flop in the real world ..

Enter the aftermarket.. let’s look at common examples.
The 6.0 diesel that was a lot of failures… aftermarket fixed the poor oil cooler design, aftermarket fixed the lack of proper head fastening , aftermarket fixed the easily failed EGR coolers.. with aftermarket parts these engines can and do go hundreds of thousands of miles (and I’m not talking deleting the emissions)..

Same with the 6.4.. better pistons , upgraded turbos , injection pumps by aftermarket .. again took a really crappy mess and made it pretty reliable..

Engineers at a manufacturer are under so many constraints that they often have to design what fits the molds vs what is actually properly engineered for the use cases they are sold for.

And esp with school busses where funding is from government with stringent budgets .. and the use case for a route bus is much different than the use case for an RV conversion..

In town on a route that low power AT545 driven bus may be the best balance of budget and reliability.. though it really blows to use it as an over the highway RV..

[Albatross]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

Many of the diesel engines in our busses are a perfect example of where OEM wasn’t always best. Remember engineers design things to run and last and produce good power.. then the EPA says it needs to meet certain emission specs .. then the bean counters say it needs to meet certain cost requirements ..

Now that once venerable design by engineers is a flop in the real world ..

Enter the aftermarket.. let’s look at common examples.
The 6.0 diesel that was a lot of failures… aftermarket fixed the poor oil cooler design, aftermarket fixed the lack of proper head fastening , aftermarket fixed the easily failed EGR coolers.. with aftermarket parts these engines can and do go hundreds of thousands of miles (and I’m not talking deleting the emissions)..

Same with the 6.4.. better pistons , upgraded turbos , injection pumps by aftermarket .. again took a really crappy mess and made it pretty reliable..

Engineers at a manufacturer are under so many constraints that they often have to design what fits the molds vs what is actually properly engineered for the use cases they are sold for.

And esp with school busses where funding is from government with stringent budgets .. and the use case for a route bus is much different than the use case for an RV conversion..

In town on a route that low power AT545 driven bus may be the best balance of budget and reliability.. though it really blows to use it as an over the highway RV..

Yup, I've said it before, and I'll say it again... My favorite quote on engineering is:



"Any asshole can build a bridge that will last forever, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that will only carry a certain amount and last a certain length of time while on a certain budget."


And as the global economy has weakened, we're seeing more and more example of this kind of a thing, where instead of making quality parts and pieces, manufacturers are now figuring out how to design things so that they have a 50% failure rate something like three months after a product's warranty expires. Because it's good for the bottom line. And the industry is largely irrelevant.



I got a good lesson in this years ago when I bought a wifi router made by Apple to upgrade my home network. It died after around 28 months, and I opened it up and was able to determine the cause--which was confirmed by research online, as well as a number of engineers chiming in on the problem. Apple wanted to charge me essentially the cost of replacement to repair it, while also admitting that no design changes had been made, and then after much complaining and a bit of scene-making, the store manager admitted that "this is a known-problem", and "there was an unadvertised replacement deal" where I could buy a newer (upgraded) unit for $20 less than what they were asking for the repair. I wound up doing a test-flight of the router in the store, and walked out, and haven't bought any apple products since.


The problem was their circuitry placed a heat-sensitive IC directly above the main power section of the board--and to people who understand circuitry and signal-pathing also understood that it wasn't a mistake, since a more logical and shorter-path approach would have had that IC in a different corner of the board. This is evidence that they built these to fail, and to require frequent replacement.

[DeMac]

OEM is great of the original part has lasted 50 years. Noah has a lot of original 1970s factory parts, but from two different 1970s buses.

The era in which the machines were built seems to dictate the fail ability. I found more than one replacement wa5er pump. The original impeller was cast iron, some of the replacement models have sheet metal impellers, same part number. I have to be cautious to NOT replace a 50y/o good quality, stout component with a cheap, Cineezium replacement. We prefer upgrades, over downgrades.

Some systems have actually improved with technological advancements. Swapping to an electric fuel pump was an easy choice as I live in Florida. Heat & vaporlock are a real thing.

The engineers of antique buses and trucks incorporated deep consideration for the drivers' abilities for making field repairs themselves, even when they were alone in the middle of nowhere.

Ingenuity, basic hand tools, baling wire were the fix fifty years ago.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by DeMac

OEM is great of the original part has lasted 50 years. Noah has a lot of original 1970s factory parts, but from two different 1970s buses.

The era in which the machines were built seems to dictate the fail ability. I found more than one replacement wa5er pump. The original impeller was cast iron, some of the replacement models have sheet metal impellers, same part number. I have to be cautious to NOT replace a 50y/o good quality, stout component with a cheap, Cineezium replacement. We prefer upgrades, over downgrades.

Some systems have actually improved with technological advancements. Swapping to an electric fuel pump was an easy choice as I live in Florida. Heat & vaporlock are a real thing.

The engineers of antique buses and trucks incorporated deep consideration for the drivers' abilities for making field repairs themselves, even when they were alone in the middle of nowhere.

Ingenuity, basic hand tools, baling wire were the fix fifty years ago.

fixing things was a paramount quality at one time..



I remember as a 12 year old mom got a new maytag washer to replace the failed old GE.. the man who put it in said " you never need to pull this machine out across the floor.. everything can be disassembled from the front"... good luck with that on todays machines..



knowing folks old and young that have made busses their whole lives.. talked of a time when GM built pretty much all the greyhound rigs.. the engine and transmission set in a cradle that was designed to be able to be completely swapped out in 3 hours or less..


the ailing engine or transmission was then repaired and put into a spare cradle that sat in the various depots... this is one of the reasons why the A/C compressors were driven by an actual driveshaft on those old busses.. you didnt have to touch the A/C lines to replace the cradle..



good luck doing that with a modern Temsa coach..



I do still buy aspple products.. or did.. simply becasue as a developer in the linux world, microsoft windows frustrates me more than any work id ever get done...



but alas apple has continued their antics.. if the SSD dies in my macbook pro (and it will..SSD's have a finite lifespan).. then you have to replace the motherboard... if the keyboard dies you have to replace the complete top half of the computer.. (keyboards wear out... quite a bit for us laptop warriors)... and well when apple decided to get rid of intel CPU's well there goes ny ability to compile the applications I write in a somewhat native environment.. so no more macbook pros for me... and well if im not gonna have an apple computer theres no need for me to have an apple phone anymore either next cycle..



planned obsolesence in the home consumer appliance world was a real thing... probably still is.. it reaslly seemed to take hold in the 90s.. i worked for a major league appliance company back then.. in the commercial HVAC division.. we were doing a rather large buildout in the central ohio corp office.. I was doing a barber coleman HVAC controls setup for this new display / demo / and conference area..


executive meetings were going on for a couple weeks where i was pretty much over their heads in the ceilings installing zone control nodes.. (Direct Digital Control) was brand new over pneumatics and I was into it.. no one else was.. anyway I may or may not have overheard conversations with engineers who essentially were being told that appliances didnt need to last 25 years because they would be "out styled" in 10-15... and that the average consumer "wouldnt care" because at that age theyd "be ready for a new one anyway" if theirs died.....



even my speed-queen american made washer / dryer. that is "built to last 25 years" sure doesnt seem like its something that will actually live up to the job... its nothing like the whrilpool belt drive a buddy of mine has from the 70s that just keeps on churning...

[nikitis]

Add to the fact current PCs on Mac and Windows are getting A I.s put onto them with no way to opt out, and the A I s kill the performance, and retailers are saying, buy a new PC which comes with a 2nd CPU dedicated to the A I. Using up. Twice the battery than before.

I work for Microsoft, and I use Linux at home for a daily driver in my whole house. For my work PC, I have to use Windows but I've spoken to devs on ways to kill the A I. On PCs without the 2nd CPU, so I wrote a script that kills it in a way it cannot respawn during that session. I will not tolerate my work spying on me. I hold it as a principle of working for a company.

I've even told my manager to his face I won't tolerate it. If you want my skills that's a non-negotiable, and he agreed so they try these passive aggressive backhanded ways of spying, so I have to be backhanded in defeating them, but because I have the ok they can't come to me and fire me for disabling it.

[Kentucky Dreaming]

I thought we were here to keep up with DeMac and Noah's epic adventure.

[nikitis]

Originally Posted by Kentucky Dreaming

I thought we were here to keep up with DeMac and Noah's epic adventure.

Come now, you know how we always get sidetracked. It lets us ride our buses for longer.