Flooring Questions

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by banman

This seems like a great idea even if one is not overly worried about floor preservation --

I just wouldn't want the risk of mold/mildew once I started sealing things up...

I've seen several examples of similar - one floor that came up very good was just tongue and grove plywood, painted grey, then once the grey was dry, the owner used a small cedar branch dipped in green paint to splash a cedar pattern on the floor - it had to be pointed out that it wasn't vinyl flooring before you noticed how it was done - a bit of sanding with a pole sander before painting, then sand with the pole sander between the first and 2nd coats of grey to get rid of any splinters - a REAL do-it-yourself floor

[plfking]

Originally Posted by brokedown

I wonder, has anyone ever used faced plywood subfloor and just stained it and coated with polyurethane or epoxy rather than adding flooring above it?

Here's one that was torched......floor is shown at about the 1:50 mark....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXrGYXzkNGs&t=220s

[Native]

Originally Posted by plfking

Here's one that was torched......floor is shown at about the 1:50 mark....

Yup ... that's the one!

[Hiura]

Rather than start a new thread, I'll put my flooring question here.

For most applications Coosa Composite Board would be overkill, but looks like a potential weight savings flooring more resistant to the elements than marine plywood.

Coosa looks the best to me, but also saw Alucore or SikaFlex Composite Panels where a couple on YouTube (Everlanders) build a camper out of it.

Why use plywood (other than cost alone) when newer composite materials offer comparable (to more strength) than wood while weighing less than wood and lasting longer than wood with no fear of rot? Money can make sense, but other than money alone...don't composite panels make more sense in 2020?

I think yes....but I certainly don't know.

[Native]

Originally Posted by Hiura

Rather than start a new thread, I'll put my flooring question here.

For most applications Coosa Composite Board would be overkill, but looks like a potential weight savings flooring more resistant to the elements than marine plywood.

Coosa looks the best to me, but also saw Alucore or SikaFlex Composite Panels where a couple on YouTube (Everlanders) build a camper out of it.

Why use plywood (other than cost alone) when newer composite materials offer comparable (to more strength) than wood while weighing less than wood and lasting longer than wood with no fear of rot? Money can make sense, but other than money alone...don't composite panels make more sense in 2020?

I think yes....but I certainly don't know.

I just followed the Google link you provided for Coosa which led to boatoutfitters dot com. I plugged in1/2" 48"x96" (same size asplywood) and selected 9 (that ishowmany my 38' bus would need)and it came up with $326.60 each for a total of $2,939.40!


I did not run the other two, expecting them to be similar. Even at 1/4 the cost, it is much higher than plywood. Yes, cost would be the key to not using the composite.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Native

I just followed the Google link you provided for Coosa which led to boatoutfitters dot com. I plugged in1/2" 48"x96" (same size asplywood) and selected 9 (that ishowmany my 38' bus would need)and it came up with $326.60 each for a total of $2,939.40!


I did not run the other two, expecting them to be similar. Even at 1/4 the cost, it is much higher than plywood. Yes, cost would be the key to not using the composite.

Man, I'm out here buying $4 half-sheets of plywood and making my $12 toilet with a soldering iron, meanwhile people are dropping three grand on their floor and another three grand on their poop burning machines. Where did I go wrong in life?

[Hiura]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Man, I'm out here buying $4 half-sheets of plywood and making my $12 toilet with a soldering iron, meanwhile people are dropping three grand on their floor and another three grand on their poop burning machines. Where did I go wrong in life?

I have a bit of a racing/drifting/touge background from living in Japan (I used to own a R32 Skyline pre-family - Toyota Sienta....zzzzzzzzzz....with the family). Driving Initial-D roads in Gunma in a Sienta is nowhere near the same sensation as in a R32.

Weight is the enemy of performance. I also subscribe to 2stroketurbo on Youtube (because he fixes microcars in the US and micro cars are cool and could make perfect tow-behind due to being lighter). He recently borrowed an RV to take his family across some Western states during his daughters' school closure. The Ford V10 was getting 4-6 miles per gallon! His fuel costs were .

For a little more than a week and more than $1000 is gas alone!?!?!?!?!? Just gas. Unlike a lighter weight no-rot floor (which is a one time purchase), gas is a constant money drain while moving. Saving weight where you can seems to make sense for greater fuel economy leading to savings. I guess if you stay put most of the time, then fuel prices don't matter.


However, 4-6 miles per gallon is something that I just don't see as sustainable for a summer trip across the US. This is why I focus only on diesel engines. Even at negative $$$$, gas is not going to be cheap forever. But then, the US has cheaper gas than most of the world. Gas is around $6 a gallon in Japan.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Hiura

Saving weight where you can seems to make sense for greater fuel economy leading to savings.

With diesel-powered school buses, weight/size does not seem to make much difference as far as fuel efficiency is concerned. They all get 10-11 mpg or thereabouts regardless of length or whether they're full or empty (even having a flat front doesn't make any difference).

Personally I'd love to use anything for my subfloor other than plywood since I think it's the one indispensable ingredient for a rusted-out bus. But if it's up on top of insulation it can be rendered relatively harmless. And there's really no other suitable material for a bus subfloor (where "suitable" includes "under $300 a sheet").

[banman]

Originally Posted by Hiura

Rather than start a new thread, I'll put my flooring question here.

SNIP...

Why use plywood (other than cost alone) when newer composite materials offer comparable (to more strength) than wood while weighing less than wood and lasting longer than wood with no fear of rot? Money can make sense, but other than money alone...don't composite panels make more sense in 2020?

I think yes....but I certainly don't know.

If you ever get a chance to use the main floor rest room at the Kuwait City Mall you really should -- beautiful marble floors & walls inlaid with pure gold. Gold isn't the most durable flooring material but it works well enough and it's waterproof and really holds a shine...

The engine deck of my beloved Huey (UH-1H) is made from a honey-combed panels. With time and vibration/torsional stress the panels debond and loose all their strength -- when we find a void in a panel, we drill a hole in the center of the void and shoot it with epoxy. I wonder how well these coosa panels would hold up in a vehicle environment...?

Plywood's really amazing stuff -- and it's a renewable/sustainable resource.
If you're really afraid of your plywood rotting 'paint' the plywood with roof coating before you install it. Be sure and coat the edges -- if it never soaks in water it will never rot. It has to stay wet to rot.

What happens when you drop a cast iron (cause you will...) frypan?
Marble or tile will crack. Gold will dent. Any lightweight metal clad honeycombed panel will dent.
Oh yes, the plywood will also take a dent -- but it won't loose much strength -- the BIG difference is how much less you'll care...

Save your money for cool lighting and windows -- stuff you'll really look at

[bus-bro]

Oh, those Coosa panels. Makes me want to build a boat. But I have sooooo many unfinished projects already. Nice to dream though.

[Native]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

With diesel-powered school buses, weight/size does not seem to make much difference as far as fuel efficiency is concerned. They all get 10-11 mpg or thereabouts regardless of length or whether they're full or empty (even having a flat front doesn't make any difference).

Right. We have made three trips between Texas and Florida with our household goods (about 5000 pounds each trip) on the way out and empty on the way back. No discernable difference in fuel mileage that I could measure.

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Personally I'd love to use anything for my subfloor other than plywood since I think it's the one indispensable ingredient for a rusted-out bus. But if it's up on top of insulation it can be rendered relatively harmless. And there's really no other suitable material for a bus subfloor (where "suitable" includes "under $300 a sheet").

That is why I painted the bottoms and edges of my plywood subfloor ... just like Banman just suggested. When we get to the final buildout, I may pull up the subfloor and paint another coat. After all, it is only the first 12 feet or so that has been laid.

[Hiura]

I've been inspired by James Gerbert and his 1936 Yellow Coach Model 733, but I'm also concerned about a suitable floor. I guess aluminum plate could be used, but my shopping shows that it's not cheap the same as Coosa and the other composite fibers.

I've seen Airstreams and other travel trailers with wooden floors, but not many buses the past several decades have been made with wooden floors. East Coast bus repair restored a Model 733 and I asked them about their floor restoration, but never got a reply back.

[Native]

Originally Posted by Hiura

I've been inspired by James Gerbert and his 1936 Yellow Coach Model 733, but I'm also concerned about a suitable floor. I guess aluminum plate could be used, but my shopping shows that it's not cheap the same as Coosa and the other composite fibers.

I've seen Airstreams and other travel trailers with wooden floors, but not many buses the past several decades have been made with wooden floors. East Coast bus repair restored a Model 733 and I asked them about their floor restoration, but never got a reply back.

In that application, weight would indeed be a factor due to the limited power of that old engine. Wood is heavy for the same strength as metals. Thicker too. I would think even composites would require some sort of framework. Aluminum may work, but it also must be thicker for the same strength as steel.


As I understand it, Crown (or is it Gillig) buses have wooden floors in a metal framework.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Hiura

I've been inspired by James Gerbert and his 1936 Yellow Coach Model 733, but I'm also concerned about a suitable floor. I guess aluminum plate could be used, but my shopping shows that it's not cheap the same as Coosa and the other composite fibers.

I've seen Airstreams and other travel trailers with wooden floors, but not many buses the past several decades have been made with wooden floors. East Coast bus repair restored a Model 733 and I asked them about their floor restoration, but never got a reply back.

MANY buses in the past decades have been built with plywood flooring.

[Hiura]

Originally Posted by Native

In that application, weight would indeed be a factor due to the limited power of that old engine.

A diesel swap is a must. Gerbert talked about swapping in an LS and there is that Winnebago with the LS swap that is wicked fast. 6bt would easily handle the weight, but it's size and weight alone is brutal for a bus so small.

A 4bt or....I've found that the Duramax 2.8L engines are becoming affordable (and with AT) with more power and more torque to the 4bt. Looks fairly easy to get 200hp out of the 2.8L. 369lb-ft of torque is way more than the 207ci stock 72hp and 155lb-ft of torque. Technology can replace displacement sometimes.

All videos I've watched about the Duramax 2.8L suggest that it could handle a 23 foot bus. The 2.8L has max tow+payload of 9206lbs. Here again, this is a reason for my concern about weight reduction where it can be found. You can see in Gerbert's videos how much space there is (and isn't for an engine swap leaving space for the driver and a new front passenger seat. A Duramax 6.6L with more than 15,000lbs would be more than safe, but fitting in the space of the bus and price.....I'm skeptical.

The new 3.0L Duramax I6 with 277hp & 460lb-ft absolutely would..but too new (untested) and expensive.

[Hiura]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

MANY buses in the past decades have been built with plywood flooring.

Any recommendations here on Skoolie or Youtube with lots of pics/videos? I'd love to see how they did it. I would assume that the process for a more modern (Crown or Gillig?) bus would be the same as for the 1938 and 1941 Yellow coach or a 1939 Ford Omnibus or even a 1939 Ford Crackerbox bus. Flooring is flooring....right?

However, even I realize that some buses...no matter how cool...should be avoided at all costs. A 1935 Dodge Wayne School Bus Short Bus could make a sweet camper but oh the work it would need from skilled people.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Hiura

Any recommendations here on Skoolie or Youtube with lots of pics/videos? I'd love to see how they did it. I would assume that the process for a more modern (Crown or Gillig?) bus would be the same as for the 1938 and 1941 Yellow coach or a 1939 Ford Omnibus or even a 1939 Ford Crackerbox bus. Flooring is flooring....right?

However, even I realize that some buses...no matter how cool...should be avoided at all costs. A 1935 Dodge Wayne School Bus Short Bus could make a sweet camper but oh the work it would need from skilled people.

Crown, gillig, and others have a metal framing with wood. Lots of smaller van-based buses have a similar setup.

[Drew Bru]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

They all get 10-11 mpg or thereabouts regardless of length or whether they're full or empty (even having a flat front doesn't make any difference)

Huh. We must be doing something wrong, we're in the 7.5 range

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Drew Bru

Huh. We must be doing something wrong, we're in the 7.5 range

Ha ha, maybe you're just tracking your fuel usage more accurately than everybody else, or maybe you're driving uphill both ways. I actually have no idea what my own mileage is, I'm just summarizing what most people seem to report.

[Native]

Originally Posted by Drew Bru

Huh. We must be doing something wrong, we're in the 7.5 range

Yeah, same here ... 7.5 to 8 MPG no matter the load.