Going solar

[turf]

i knew it was coming so i did it first.

i got up on the roof and did overs for the conduit. i took it down and worked on it inside my greeenhouse. had a nice straight line and flat floor to work from so it was easier.

now the conduit will lay flat against the rails and not be in tension. the conduit will get strapped to the rail and the j boxes will get screwed to it.

tomorrow - the last conduit leg and the entry hole into the battery box.

and my helpers today

[turf]

im close.

not right, but close.

i think 1 more offset that i can hide under the bus will straighten out my conduit and make it look ok.

i got the conduit attached and landed to the battery box. the last connection.... from the tail lights down, is crooked. after staring at the picture and weighing my options, i have an easy fix to make it all right in the morning.

i hadnt considered the offset between he taillights and the battery box.... it only becomes apparent when you try to connect them with a straight line.

in the AM, i can cut that 1st offset off the battery box and spin it around to make the pipe run straight.

so, what a qualified electrician can do in a couple of hours... it takes me a couple, three weeks.

thanks for following

[turf]

bit of a weather, life, what ever delay going on here.

its been cold and misting, not quite snow, but not worth standing outside in to work. so the bus is on temporary hiatus. hoping its finished before march now.

the sun poked out this afternoon and i went out and mounted up some more components. i got another set of bus bars so this will be easily convertible to 24v whenever i get an inverter.

the battery cables will be undersized for 12v but fine for 24. but i'll never run my AC on 12v, which is the plan after i get the inverter and 24v convert, so, im not worried about the size of the 12v cables. the 12v draw will not exceed 100a with my set up, as is, my system runs around 12a. i have 500A+ available, i'll fuse for 150A which is fine for 24V with AC, and my cable size.

so the new bus bars are the "bridge" to the existing old system. the old system will be directly wired to the new bus bars now at 12v, but when i upgrade, i can make the new bus bars 24v and in stall a 12v converter in between the new and old bus bars and supply my original house system.

i'd upgrade to 24v now, but i run a small inverter off the 12v inside the bus and that would probably exceed the amp draw of a single 70a 12v converter. so, ill wait until i upgrade my inverting and move the invert into the battery box, next to the battery where it is supposed to be.

i decided to run the charge controllers and the electric system along the outerwall of the battery box.it will leave some room in there for storing other stuff. the battery box is pretty deep. i dont really fit in it, as i try to squeeze myself in to reach the the components on the back wall.

i'll run cables on the floor now under the components and run the ends up to attach them. i was considering running the cables along the ceiling and having them drop down, but .... is condensation a thing? could i get drips on the charge controllers? its probably safest to run the cables along the bottom of the enclosure.

coming up:
finish mounting charge controllers and bus bars
wiring charge controllers, bus bars and fuses
pulling wire through conduit to the roof
mount solar panels
mount starlink


maybe i have a conduit issue. i kinked one of the bends. it still looks useable, but each time i try to pass a fish tape thru it, it gets stuck. the kink needs to pass 8 cables thru, so maybe i have to redo the section.

im fine with my shoddy, kinked work. id rather not do it twice, or 3, or 4 or.....
the kink is right above the tail light.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by turf

bit of a weather, life, what ever delay going on here.

its been cold and misting, not quite snow, but not worth standing outside in to work. so the bus is on temporary hiatus. hoping its finished before march now.

the sun poked out this afternoon and i went out and mounted up some more components. i got another set of bus bars so this will be easily convertible to 24v whenever i get an inverter.

the battery cables will be undersized for 12v but fine for 24. but i'll never run my AC on 12v, which is the plan after i get the inverter and 24v convert, so, im not worried about the size of the 12v cables. the 12v draw will not exceed 100a with my set up, as is, my system runs around 12a. i have 500A+ available, i'll fuse for 150A which is fine for 24V with AC, and my cable size.

so the new bus bars are the "bridge" to the existing old system. the old system will be directly wired to the new bus bars now at 12v, but when i upgrade, i can make the new bus bars 24v and in stall a 12v converter in between the new and old bus bars and supply my original house system.

i'd upgrade to 24v now, but i run a small inverter off the 12v inside the bus and that would probably exceed the amp draw of a single 70a 12v converter. so, ill wait until i upgrade my inverting and move the invert into the battery box, next to the battery where it is supposed to be.

i decided to run the charge controllers and the electric system along the outerwall of the battery box.it will leave some room in there for storing other stuff. the battery box is pretty deep. i dont really fit in it, as i try to squeeze myself in to reach the the components on the back wall.

i'll run cables on the floor now under the components and run the ends up to attach them. i was considering running the cables along the ceiling and having them drop down, but .... is condensation a thing? could i get drips on the charge controllers? its probably safest to run the cables along the bottom of the enclosure.

coming up:
finish mounting charge controllers and bus bars
wiring charge controllers, bus bars and fuses
pulling wire through conduit to the roof
mount solar panels
mount starlink


maybe i have a conduit issue. i kinked one of the bends. it still looks useable, but each time i try to pass a fish tape thru it, it gets stuck. the kink needs to pass 8 cables thru, so maybe i have to redo the section.

im fine with my shoddy, kinked work. id rather not do it twice, or 3, or 4 or.....
the kink is right above the tail light.

too many bends and too close together. are there any wires already in the conduit?

[turf]

the conduit is empty now.

the couple of times ive tried to stick something thru there, the kink has snagged it. it looks like it didnt affect the tube much but i sure feel it each time. pulling my fish tape back broke the head off the tape.

i suppose i could make that into a couple of 45s and remove 90 degrees from the bend total.

right now i have 4 - 90s and about 80 degrees of stand offs. most of the bends in the last stick.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by turf

the conduit is empty now.

the couple of times ive tried to stick something thru there, the kink has snagged it. it looks like it didnt affect the tube much but i sure feel it each time. pulling my fish tape back broke the head off the tape.

i suppose i could make that into a couple of 45s and remove 90 degrees from the bend total.

right now i have 4 - 90s and about 80 degrees of stand offs. most of the bends in the last stick.

get rid of all of the bends that you can and/or you could use an SLB and make 2 pulls (might need a second person to guide the wires into the conduit to avoid scraping the insulation) or you could use a lubricant to make it a easier pull. Also I suspect that the connector caught the hook on your puller when you pulled it back and broke the hook off. An SLB at the bottom going under the bumper would eliminate 1 - 90 degree and probably the offset following it.


You will also need 2 threaded water proof conduit connectors.

what is an SLB?
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=slb+condu...f=nb_sb_noss_2

Pulling lubricant

https://www.amazon.com/Ideal-31-378-...s%2C204&sr=8-2

[turf]

good morning all.

plenty of sun today, waiting on some temps before i get started.

thanks KH for the advice on the conduit. ima try and redo it today. i got the SLB and think it may make a nice fit on the back of the bus. a quick peak underneath shows plenty of obstructions where it would pop through though, so im going to have to study the situation a bit. i hope it works, it'll look better to use the SLB and delete the wrap around the bumper part of the conduit.

i was wire shopping yesterday and balked at getting my battery cables. the store only had thhn, i was looking at #1 thhn and, wow, that looks like some wicked unforgiving stuff. i can't imagine bending that to make it through a plastic breaker box.

the electric supply place is closed until monday so better wire choices will have to wait.

when you get to wires of size, what do you use?

[PorchDog]

Welding cable?

[turf]

thanks PD!

maybe, idk. for sure it'd be better than the thhn.

got a bit more done today. got all the charge controllers mounted, and the start of my wiring. i need some different fasteners to attach the bus bars and fuse, my big ole self tappers are a bit to big.

the wiring is going to be a challenge for me. i have a bad habit of wanting to leave extra wire. i connected the first charge controller up to the panel and gave myself an extra foot of wire. its not going to look very good if i keep that up. so tomorrow, i'll go back and shorten my cables, and see if i do better on the remaining cables. sure looks easier than it is.

i could mount the SLB at the white spot in the pictures. right above the bumper. if i go through the wall there, there is a piece of angle iron right behind the hole that looks like its going to interfere. tomorrow, i'll put the connector peice up there and see if there is room for it.

if there is room, then i'll go ahead and knock out the hole and install it. the run from the bumper to the battery box will have a couple of 90s in it to drop below the bumper hardware and line up with the hole i put into the box a few days ago.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by turf

good morning all.

plenty of sun today, waiting on some temps before i get started.

thanks KH for the advice on the conduit. ima try and redo it today. i got the SLB and think it may make a nice fit on the back of the bus. a quick peak underneath shows plenty of obstructions where it would pop through though, so im going to have to study the situation a bit. i hope it works, it'll look better to use the SLB and delete the wrap around the bumper part of the conduit.

i was wire shopping yesterday and balked at getting my battery cables. the store only had thhn, i was looking at #1 thhn and, wow, that looks like some wicked unforgiving stuff. i can't imagine bending that to make it through a plastic breaker box.

the electric supply place is closed until monday so better wire choices will have to wait.

when you get to wires of size, what do you use?

stranded wire is a lot more flexible and easier to pull, the smaller the strand the more flexible, just be sure it is rated for use in conduit, insulation , heat, ect. I think that stranded wire carries more current, something called skin effect, but not sure, welding cable is always a bunch of small strands, mostly for its flexibility.

I doubt if welding cable is rated for conduit though.


PS... something to think about is what happens to the conduit & cable if you get rear ended or back into something, ect. Could be real expensive OR even deadly

[turf]

i'll go see if i can find welding cable. its not going into a conduit. this will be from the battery to the breaker to the fuse to the bus bar. it will run through my hose clamp wire race.

if i have a catastrophic event, i hope its spectacular and quick.

all my over current protection is inside the battery box. so if there is an event, loose wires to the panel will be hot, but everything else should shut down.

the battery is fused to 300a and breakered at 125a. the panels are fused at 20a and breakered at 30a. when i convert to 24v, my numbers will be inspec.

i almost got the conduit redone. im pretty happy with the SLB and the new bends. i still need to secure the conduit but its close.

[Albatross]

Like many things, welding cable is cheaper on the internet. I think I paid $100 for a 20'/25' roll of 2/0 or 3/0 cable for my battery jumpers, and for the run into the main j-box.

[turf]

isolated or non isolated?


hey all you experts!

im looking at 24v to 12v converters. and im confused.

right now, my house system is floating, its 12+ and 12v- hardwired, no common ground with the vehicle. what im guessing they mean by "isolated".

on top of that, im going to add another 24v isolated system, that will feed my isolated 12v system.

when im looking at the converters.....
the isolated ones have 2 inputs and 2 outputs. low amps (20 or 30a)
the non isolated ones have 1 input (hot) and 1 output (hot) and share a ground. higher amps (70a+)

so.... when shopping for a converter for 24v to 12v, with my 2 isolated systems, could they be non isolated in hooking the 2 side together? or do i stay isolated.

i think the non isolated works fine for this situation but...idk
i think that would just expand my current isolated system, i think using the isolated one would make a third floating setup.

non isolated
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-...v-24v-48v-110v

isolated
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-...rters-isolated

[desrtdog]

Originally Posted by turf

isolated or non isolated?


hey all you experts!

im looking at 24v to 12v converters. and im confused.

right now, my house system is floating, its 12+ and 12v- hardwired, no common ground with the vehicle. what im guessing they mean by "isolated".

on top of that, im going to add another 24v isolated system, that will feed my isolated 12v system.

when im looking at the converters.....
the isolated ones have 2 inputs and 2 outputs. low amps (20 or 30a)
the non isolated ones have 1 input (hot) and 1 output (hot) and share a ground. higher amps (70a+)

so.... when shopping for a converter for 24v to 12v, with my 2 isolated systems, could they be non isolated in hooking the 2 side together? or do i stay isolated.

i think the non isolated works fine for this situation but...idk
i think that would just expand my current isolated system, i think using the isolated one would make a third floating setup.

non isolated
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-...v-24v-48v-110v

isolated
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-...rters-isolated

I would call Victron - from experience I can tell you that their customer service is very helpful…

[sportyrick]

If possible I like to put a loop at the end of my wire runs in case I need a little extra next time.

[Albatross]

I would generally never run an "isolated" system in a vehicle. There are some pretty specific exceptions, and all of the ones that I can think of pretty much involve sensitive measurement systems, or high-power radio transmitters.



The main reason is that if, for whatever reason, your ground/neutral floats too far away from the "ground" and/or neutral of your house systems, you could wind up with some nasty effects, and potentially a hazardous event.

[turf]

Originally Posted by Albatross

I would generally never run an "isolated" system in a vehicle. There are some pretty specific exceptions, and all of the ones that I can think of pretty much involve sensitive measurement systems, or high-power radio transmitters.



The main reason is that if, for whatever reason, your ground/neutral floats too far away from the "ground" and/or neutral of your house systems, you could wind up with some nasty effects, and potentially a hazardous event.

really?

where were you 10-12 years ago when i built it? Well, idk the ins and outs of it much but at the time it was the best solution. i do enjoy a good grounding thread, though, so inform me please if you like. it is water under the bridge and probably not changing at this point. it's been a good solution that has served me well.

writing out the problem and reading responses is part of my problem solving process. i think i overthought the isolated question. at 12v, they share a ground, so at the 24v conversion, they can still share a ground. they are not isolate at 12v, so dont need to be when 24. the whole system (house and solar) will still be isolated from the vehicle wiring.

the vehicle is the earth ground. if a dc item needs grounding, its bonded to the vehicle. if memory serves, i only have 1 item thats like that and its a battery charger that plugs into the battery and 15a service. but there is no continuity between house dc(-) and earth ground.

i am likely mistaken, but i feel like its been a very safe system. it wont short across the metal bus body. am i worried about one of my wires shorting out on the bus? no, there is no continuity between the 2 systems.

i dont remember why i went with the isolated system, another member here advised me along the way. and its worked well. i started with a bookmobile that came with a 12kw gen and wired for 100a split phase power. i added the isolated house battery system on top of that setup because running the gen at a campground sucks.

grounding is a favorite topic of mine to learn about.

i hard fastened the conduit to bus yesterday. today or tommorw i need to do over again. but it'll be better. seems like every stick was an inch short when i went to tighten everything up and screw it down. i got the the end and everything had moved on me a bit, so i need to loosen it all again and readjust , re-screw, but its close.

[Albatross]

Well, the likelihood of a dangerous event is quite low, as it would probably take something like a lightning strike, or some kind of short in the auto circuits somewhere that doesn't burn out a fuse to create that kind of a situation. That said, it's probability is a definite non-zero, but it's pretty far down there.



I also think I misunderstood a bit of what you were asking, since I would also run my 120V in an "isolated" setup as you describe; using the chassis for earth. I actually think that's how I did mine, but I also only have one or two circuits, and they're all in the same location (short bus stuff). Most of my bus is built around maximizing everything on the 12V, including appliances, so my cooler is a 12VDC one, and pretty much everything else is built up that way. I've got a circuit of power-points (cigarette lighter plugs for the older folks) that runs around the bus for most of my power needs.

[turf]

lolol

i did a couple of searches and some of my threads are missing. i was looking for the thread where i was advised about the isolated system. i remember it well, it was a clusterf**k of an electrical thread.

then i searched on the my diy lithium self made battery...again missing...


maybe the admin had gone through and deleted all my old bad electric advise threads?

idk, but they're gone

lololol

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by Albatross

Well, the likelihood of a dangerous event is quite low, as it would probably take something like a lightning strike, or some kind of short in the auto circuits somewhere that doesn't burn out a fuse to create that kind of a situation. That said, it's probability is a definite non-zero, but it's pretty far down there.



I also think I misunderstood a bit of what you were asking, since I would also run my 120V in an "isolated" setup as you describe; using the chassis for earth. I actually think that's how I did mine, but I also only have one or two circuits, and they're all in the same location (short bus stuff). Most of my bus is built around maximizing everything on the 12V, including appliances, so my cooler is a 12VDC one, and pretty much everything else is built up that way. I've got a circuit of power-points (cigarette lighter plugs for the older folks) that runs around the bus for most of my power needs.

For the rest of you "older folks" a quick search on Duck Duck Go for "power points" shows that most of the world still thinks of Microsofts presentation software, but adding "12v" to the search term brings up a slew of references to Ford Lincoln Mercurys nomenclature for their 12 volt power supply options/system for the last 20 years or so. Personally, as an older person who has not had a new Ford, Lincoln or Mercury in years, I didn't have a clue. Aftermarket options/replacements even exist.....of course they have existed for over 50 years, we just didn't call em power points.....till now. Pleading ignorance will not help, gotta get with it if you want to be cool. I get it, any reference to a cigarette can't be a good thing and its not hip to be cool.