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Old 11-13-2017, 05:01 PM   #321
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people will always find a way to work on it.. just a few years ago the letter ' E ' after DT-466 or T-444 (7.3) or an ISB/ISC was a complete curse and thought to be the end of skoolie-dom.. but guess what lots of us are driving em with an 'E' at the end and fixing them too...

the Caterpillar court case will rear its head rteal soon again here if manufacturers try to go to proprietary...
-Christopher

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Old 11-13-2017, 05:05 PM   #322
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One reason I like "E" is that its much easier on my right leg on long drives. And Chris can enable cruise control and raise my top speed to 90.
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:11 PM   #323
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One reason I like "E" is that its much easier on my right leg on long drives. And Chris can enable cruise control and raise my top speed to 90.
Oh, HELLS yes!

Me likee CC very muchly, yu betcha!
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:15 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960 View Post
Oh, HELLS yes!

Me likee CC very muchly, yu betcha!
My mechanical DT466 is an amazing engine. But on long drives that multi-pivot-point, complicated linkage starts to wear out my leg.
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:17 PM   #325
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Given all the utterly unnecessary electronic crap, sensors that go bad and computers that can trick even the factory analyzers on new cars...I will never own another. In a way, I am thankful that I am old enough to very likely die before all the old iron is completely gone. And, it won't be much longer before the only skoolies available will be garbage that can't be worked on or maintained by ordinary humans. And that my friends is the plan.

If this is what they call progress...screw it.
You're preaching at the choir, Rev!
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:18 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
My mechanical DT466 is an amazing engine. But on long drives that multi-pivot-point, complicated linkage starts to wear out my leg.
Dude! That's why bungee cords & duct tape were invented
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:19 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
My mechanical DT466 is an amazing engine. But on long drives that multi-pivot-point, complicated linkage starts to wear out my leg.
my DT360 is like that.. and ive drive a LOT of miles on that bus!

I even enabled the 'change oil indicator' on mine so its like my newer car

plus the auto-idle thing is cool for those of us in cold weather... it modulates the idle speed to keep the engine warm..

-Christopher
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:56 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Got the last of the bare metal treated. Spent the morning up on the bus roof.
Got the wiring put back together, now just gotta get the brake lights working. i think the bulbs are shot, but I'm returning with my multimeter in the AM.

Maybe I'll get around to fixing my van next week?!
Nice. I need to call the fab shop back. $222 for 100' of 1 1/4" square is MORE than double what I paid but $100 for the hat channel is fine.

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And, it won't be much longer before the only skoolies available will be garbage that can't be worked on or maintained by ordinary humans. And that my friends is the plan.

If this is what they call progress...screw it.
Or the bus yards. The W.V. shop I bought mine from had nothing but new buses in the shop. The guys wear swearing up a storm about the new buses being pieces of junk.

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One reason I like "E" is that its much easier on my right leg on long drives. And Chris can enable cruise control and raise my top speed to 90.
My '99 has no E nor does it have code for the cruise. The "enable" is a rocker switch on the dash!!

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I even enabled the 'change oil indicator' on mine so its like my newer car
I don't think I have one of those.

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plus the auto-idle thing is cool for those of us in cold weather... it modulates the idle speed to keep the engine warm..
I dunno if it is the same but I do have a high and low idle switch.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:09 AM   #329
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I thought the ISC is an 'E' engine.. its an electronically controlled diesel engine.. fly-by-wire I believe also..

the only difference in mine and a highj idle switch (I have one of those too).. is that it will run the engine speed up and down at idle and in 'N' to maintain the engine temperature.. so I piull off the road to sleep and want the heat on, it will keep the engine from cooling down too much... or from running high idle continuously and wasting fuel... the 7.3 seems to hokd quite a bit of heat.. so the copuple times ive done it I just turn off the engine, turn on the heater pump.. and use one of the reciurculating heaters like the rear which doesnt heat outside air it just uses cabin air.. the bus will stay warm inside for quite a while..
-Christopher
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:23 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Chris
I thought the ISC is an 'E' engine.. its an electronically controlled diesel engine.. fly-by-wire I believe also..
I dunno. I keep going back and forth on it. It keeps an electronic log and all of that jazz but it doesn't have the "Evil E" of emissions.

I dunno about the fly-by-wire either. Haven't chased or even looked for a throttle cable. With any R.E. bus I would hope at the very least there's a servo somewhere pulling a cable at the engine. Running a 40 foot cable thru a sleeve is just asking for a stuck throttle. On the interstate with 80 snot-lickers on it would be a lawsuit waiting to happen.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:46 AM   #331
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the RE versions of the mechanicals used an air throttle.
-Christopher
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:18 AM   #332
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Got the new water pump. Since I could get the stuff in-store locally and they're having a 25% off sale I went through Advance Discount Auto.
$102 for the pump, t-stat, gaskets, hoses, fan clutch, and radiator cap. Not bad.
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Old 12-01-2017, 08:00 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the RE versions of the mechanicals used an air throttle.
-Christopher
I guess that makes sense since the door and brakes are air. Brakes are kinda important and I've no idea how the hell they work. Trusting air for fine adjustments like throttle or brake just sounds like a bad idea.
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Old 12-01-2017, 08:46 AM   #334
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air is the actuation method.. the brakes themselves are mechanical.. your bus has 3 "brake systems" on it.. and when working right they are isolated from each other..

rear brakes do the heavy hitting in a bus from what im told.

so ultimately when your air compressor pumps up and you release the parking brake, you pressurize the secondary portion of the rear cylinder.. which depresses the spring and releases the rear wheels..

when you apply the pedal, you pressureuze the front and rear primary cy,inders.. which actuates the brakes.. the ability for an air brake system to operate over long distances or with a small leak is far superior to a hydraulic system.. a small leak in a hydraulic system and you lose braking ability very quickly.. a small leak in an air brake system you notice as your air pressure dropping ..

losing All air means that the rear cylinbder secondary succumbs to spring pressure and the rear brakes will apply gradually as pressure drops.. you are going to be slowing down..

loss of air to the throttle means you dont go.. it fails to throttle closed... no cable to stick.. the spring on the air throttle to return it to closed is much stronger than a spring on a standard cable throttle...

whether hydraulic or air brakes you still dont have a metal-to-metal connection between your foot and the discs / drums..

hydraulic like air does have a separate closed system for front and rear.. difference being with hydraulic a complete loss of hydraulic actuation means no brakes not full-rear as in air..

in an all-out panic stop situation you need all you can get.. engine / trans compression as well as friction.. and hope theres enough frictrion between the tires and the road to stop you before an object does..

-Christopher
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:31 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
air is the actuation method.. the brakes themselves are mechanical..
This I knew.
Quote:
your bus has 3 "brake systems" on it.. and when working right they are isolated from each other..
Air, mechanical and ... ? You counting the tires as the third?

Quote:
rear brakes do the heavy hitting in a bus from what im told.
That is simple physics and true of any vehicle be is a bus or a pedal bicycle.

Quote:
so ultimately when your air compressor pumps up and you release the parking brake, you pressurize the secondary portion of the rear cylinder.. which depresses the spring and releases the rear wheels..
This I knew.

Quote:
when you apply the pedal, you pressureuze the front and rear primary cy,inders.. which actuates the brakes..
This I knew.

Quote:
the ability for an air brake system to operate over long distances or with a small leak is far superior to a hydraulic system.. a small leak in a hydraulic system and you lose braking ability very quickly.. a small leak in an air brake system you notice as your air pressure dropping ..
This also makes sense in that your compressor stands a chance of commpressing faster than the leak if nothing else. There's the reservoir in hydraulic but it is quickly gone.

Quote:
losing All air means that the rear cylinder secondary succumbs to spring pressure and the rear brakes will apply gradually as pressure drops.. you are going to be slowing down..
This I'm not sure I knew. I was thinking full lock. But now that I give it some time to think about, it explains the semi trailer brake fires. Driver just didn't notice. From working great to instant fail, the driver would notice.

Quote:
loss of air to the throttle means you dont go.. it fails to throttle closed... no cable to stick.. the spring on the air throttle to return it to closed is much stronger than a spring on a standard cable throttle...
Failing on closed only makes sense ... unless you live in Hollywood.

Quote:
whether hydraulic or air brakes you still dont have a metal-to-metal connection between your foot and the discs / drums..
This I knew.

Quote:
hydraulic like air does have a separate closed system for front and rear.. difference being with hydraulic a complete loss of hydraulic actuation means no brakes not full-rear as in air..
This I knew. I knew hydraulics were that way before I knew about air even.

Quote:
in an all-out panic stop situation you need all you can get.. engine / trans compression as well as friction.. and hope there's enough friction between the tires and the road to stop you before an object does..

-Christopher
Anyone make a bus tire in a Treadwear of 100? Some Azenis on a school bus would improve the cornering.
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:59 AM   #336
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the 3rd brake system is the spring brakes.. same shoes same drums. but a 3rd actuation..

they apply slowly as pressure in the rear cylinder decreases (compressor fail or large leak).. once the pressure reaches I think 20-40 PSI then the park braje knob automatically pops and you have full rear apply then.. but below about 60 you are stsartingf to get some spring break application.. yeah in a semi im guessing you would feel it as a little drag if it was just on one wheel.. nothing more than wind drag id trhink.. youd see the smoke in your mirror.. except maybe at night.. with air suspension its not unusual to see your air pressure going down at different rates depending on the road terrain.. one gauge im surprised we dont see is a brake temperature monitor... (maybe they are on semi trucks and I just know it?). seems it would be beneficial to the guys running mountainness routes..

some of the semi truck trailer fires are hub fires.. over-tightened wheel bearings getting hot... un-caught wheel seal leak and the bearing gets hot.. hub oil on the brake drum and a heavy quick stop..

its important to check that hub oil on our busses.. in the fronts (if they are oil bath)./.. the rears are handled by the diff fluid.. low diff fluid starves the wheel bearings first..
-Christopher
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Old 12-01-2017, 11:58 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the 3rd brake system is the spring brakes.. same shoes same drums. but a 3rd actuation..
Ah gotcha.

Quote:
they apply slowly as pressure in the rear cylinder decreases (compressor fail or large leak).. once the pressure reaches I think 20-40 PSI then the park brake knob automatically pops and you have full rear apply then.. but below about 60 you are starting to get some spring break application..
Different springs? Either the brakes or the axles won't let go under 60 psi.

Quote:
yeah in a semi im guessing you would feel it as a little drag if it was just on one wheel.. nothing more than wind drag id trhink.. youd see the smoke in your mirror.. except maybe at night.. with air suspension its not unusual to see your air pressure going down at different rates depending on the road terrain.. one gauge im surprised we dont see is a brake temperature monitor... (maybe they are on semi trucks and I just know it?). seems it would be beneficial to the guys running mountainness routes..

some of the semi truck trailer fires are hub fires.. over-tightened wheel bearings getting hot... un-caught wheel seal leak and the bearing gets hot.. hub oil on the brake drum and a heavy quick stop..
Millions of trailers in very shitty conditions. It's surprising there aren't more fires. No way they are putting temp gauges or anything else on the trailers. Every penny that doesn't go towards the bottom line is a wasted penny.

Quote:
its important to check that hub oil on our busses.. in the fronts (if they are oil bath)./.. the rears are handled by the diff fluid.. low diff fluid starves the wheel bearings first..
-Christopher
Suppose I should read up on that. I don't think I have any leaks, brakes work fine, etc. but I don't know how to check them either. I do have the chassis FSM in pdf and the paper engine manual. I don't do the pre-check like you do.
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Old 12-01-2017, 01:53 PM   #338
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same springs.. when you pull the parking brake knob on the dash you are releasing the air in the spring / emergency brake part of the rear brake cylinder chamber.

the parking brake handle is designed to pop out on its own im guessing to prevent the fire situation you are talking about.. however in my experience when ive played with it.. my spring brakes are starting to apply long before that handle pops..

the bus in a walmart parking lot slight forward decline in pavement. shut engine off. release foot brake bus rolls forward. pump on brake pedal until I see pressure at 40-50. let off foot brake bus doesnt roll.. so theres some braking being applied. keep pumping and when I get a bit below 40 the park brake knob pops out with a little "whoosh" nbot the big one we are used to hearing.

when i first bought the DEV bus i lost my compressor on the way home.. I pulled off the freeway and had to make a couple slow downs before i got to the gas station lot.. while pulling into the gas station lot. my pressure had dropped to 55 or so. and I was having to fight the brakes with the engine a bit as I got it to its resting spot.. no brake pedal needed to finally stop.. the smell of warm drums was just barely noticeable when I walked around the bus after stopping it.
-Christopher
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Old 12-01-2017, 02:11 PM   #339
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Quote:
rear brakes do the heavy hitting in a bus from what im told.
That is simple physics and true of any vehicle be is a bus or a pedal bicycle.
Passenger vehicles take about 80% of the stopping force on the front tires, 20% on the rear. I think you are mis-conceiving the physics. When a car stops, the rear-end lifts, the front end lowers, as the vehicle tries to rotate around the front tire. This is why disk-brakes are found on the front of almost any modern passenger vehicle (they work better), while the rears may be left as drums. Having the motor up-front also gives them more traction.
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Old 12-01-2017, 02:20 PM   #340
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Passenger vehicles take about 80% of the stopping force on the front tires, 20% on the rear. I think you are mis-conceiving the physics. When a car stops, the rear-end lifts, the front end lowers, as the vehicle tries to rotate around the front tire. This is why disk-brakes are found on the front of almost any modern passenger vehicle (they work better), while the rears may be left as drums. Having the motor up-front also gives them more traction.
why on a bus / truck am I told this is not true? in my experimentation it seems the same weight transfer occurs in the bus when I haul-ass on the brakes.. in fact with my DEV bus the air brakes in the rear lock up while I still can apply more pressure to the fronts and gain more stopping power..

I see the same thing out in the workd when a semi truck hauls his brakes.. the trailer brakes are locked and the tractor's are not..
-Christopher
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