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Old 09-23-2021, 03:25 PM   #21
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Thank you Ross. I couldn't agree more.

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Old 09-23-2021, 03:31 PM   #22
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I do have a couple that I lost in a tragic cave diving accident after all I do reside in kalifuckistan.
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Old 09-23-2021, 04:38 PM   #23
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Publishing on a national message board might not be the best idea? Just sayin'
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Old 09-23-2021, 06:18 PM   #24
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I dont hate guns.. reality is though ive known NO ONE thats actually had to fire on someone who intruded or threatened them.. notice i didnt say drawn but Fire Upon.. of the few people I know which actually were compelled to draw.. the situation de-fused itself to a point where deadly force wasnt necessary.. generally the suspect ran away or the police arrived and the suspect ran / surrendered.. at that point the situation is controlled.


I suppose there are hacks out there who will pump lead before assessing a situation.. (we have all seen the bad cop videos)


from my perspective and that of the 'big gun guys' i know, their worst nightmare situation is where they would have to pull that trigger...



maybe im wrong.. but I havent met people that are trigger happy.. ive been around guns my whole life they are a tool, a machine, something to respect.. many machines ive been around have the capacity to kill myself and many others.. you work with purpose and respect and attention to detail.. those with guns that ive known put forth purpose, respect, and attention to detail..



sorry i dont latch on to the "all guns are bad" theory nor do i latch on to the "I must always carry and so should everyone else" theory either...



certain situations called for more safety equipment than others.. my oxygen respirator gas mask was an extra level i wore when servicing an ammonia refrigeration system... (Nope i never "needed" it) some people take an extra level when travelling esp in unfamiliar areas.. and likely never "needed" it but it was there....



whats the big deal? have you ever used your fire extuingishers? should they be outlawed because they can kill someone?
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Old 09-23-2021, 09:27 PM   #25
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You truly lack self awareness. Seriously guy? I never said I have seen more death than anyone. I said probably, which statistically is accurate. Statistically speaking I have probably seen more death than most on this forum but I don’t know or care. My point is that your language is abrasive unnecessarily. I hardly think it is news to you that the way you speak shows callous disregard for how you are received by others.

"Callous disregard" and "abrasive", eh? This is my manner of speaking in my daily life. You are different than me and speak differently as does everyone else on this forum and in the world, and so your comment is judgemental and stupid. I'll talk the way I want to talk according to my life experience and upbringing if that's OK with you.


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Originally Posted by ISAF2009 View Post
I don’t think that statistics support that victimization by violent people is the elephant in the room, for most people probably toilets and laundry are the elephant in the room.

You must have your head up your ass or not pay attention to the violence that is racking our cities and the opiate and fentanyl ruining our rural areas with the attending rise in crime.[/QUOTE]


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Originally Posted by ISAF2009 View Post
People who talk like you are the worst ambassadors for the 2A and the real tragedy in this thread is that people are hearing from gun owners like you and not gun owners like me.

Funny that we are just hearing about this now. Your first post simply **** all over everything I said without any mention of 2A support. Again you STUPIDLY assume I am less of a 2A proponent than you without any supporting evidence. In reality "gun owners like me" were directly involved in electing a pro 2A governor in Wisconsin a few years back and our group was instrumental in getting concealed carry passed as we only had open carry up until that point. Just one example where you show yourself to be full of yourself and crap, I know not the ratio.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ISAF2009 View Post
Yes I carry, Yes I burn 5-600 rounds a month in my carry gun alone Yes I have worn out carry guns with so much practice. Yes I carry USCCA insurance as well as an umbrella policy. Yes I have over 600 hours of training through various organizations on handguns alone. I am a 2A advocate, an FFL, an NRA instructor, and the owner of 63 firearms as of today. Spoiler alert: I am a “big gun guy” you are a hack who owns guns.


How do you know how much I shoot and how many guns I have, or what my credentials are, and what does that matter anyway?



I had respect for your service and experience even after your first emotional blurb, but you've lost all credibility with this latest diatribe. You should have quit while you were ahead, supported 2A protection for self and loved ones and left it at that.
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Old 09-23-2021, 09:34 PM   #26
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You know what's sad?


In reading over the comments here I realized that we have lost the ability to have sane, rational discourse on uncomfortable topics. The red versus blue thing has poisoned many minds and caused us not to want to listen or respond politely to another's opinion.


Right away in this thread I was jumped for my "manner of speaking", etc., instead of realizing that we all have different points of view and should feel free to discuss them without judgement.


Safety on the road is an important topic and if you can't address it honestly and find peace with your solution you will end up fearful and staying home instead of journeying.
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Old 09-23-2021, 10:18 PM   #27
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Love 'em or hate 'em we live in a gun culture in the USA and unless the current administration has its way (over my dead body), guns are here to stay.

I was on a prepper forum lately and a gun hater asked how he could defend himself from two and four legged predators without carrying an evil GUN. By God you should have heard all the answers: pepper spray, tasers, brass knuckles and crossbows were on the menu. But in actuality nothing defends like a smoke stick of any caliber or type, and way deep down inside the haters know that.
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In reading over the comments here I realized that we have lost the ability to have sane, rational discourse on uncomfortable topics. The red versus blue thing has poisoned many minds and caused us not to want to listen or respond politely to another's opinion.
You really think your initial comment constitutes "sane, rational discourse on uncomfortable topics"? Because it does not - rational discourse involves a fundamental respect for the views of others who might disagree with you, and phrases like "gun hater" and "way deep down inside the haters ..." show a clear lack of such respect ("smoke stick" shows a lack of respect even for your own views).

Moreover, regardless of whether or not it constitutes sane, rational discourse, it's not in any way relevant on a forum for people converting used school buses into motorhomes. Fortunately this forum has an ignore list, a feature that makes this place much more pleasant.
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Old 09-23-2021, 10:34 PM   #28
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The disdain of the ignorant is heartwarming; thank you.
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:28 AM   #29
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Guns are bad. I would never own one. I would never, ever even consider carrying one concealed when I travel...or whenever I leave home. Nor would my wife. During my 20 years as a police officer, I refused to carry a firearm and I relied on verbal judo to disarm those who would do me or others harm. And for the 11 years of that career, when I was also an active NRA police firearms instructor, I counseled fellow officers to leave their guns at home too.

I absolutely agree with Peteg59...never advertise that you're carrying. ISAF...remember that guns are bad. You, like I did, should dump all of yours offshore. Someday I might miss those, though...

You're funny Ross. I saw what you did there. I lost all mine as well, in a tragic boating accident.
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:36 AM   #30
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Crown Guy that is tragic. You could have sold them to some rambo type second amendment ambassador of good will. That would have made the world a safer place. I feel your pain.
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:06 AM   #31
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Well let's see......
18 year Marine Corps vet, service connected disability.
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Constitutional activist (mainly 2A/4A/5A)....not real good at 5A
Bachelors, class of 2014, Business/Criminal Justice


I have a YouTube channel that is 9 years old. A video I uploaded FIVE YEARS ago still gets at least two dozen new comments a week and ALONE earns me $25-$30 a month. That video is a transcription (with audio) of a 911 call by a young woman who's ex was outside destroying her car and trying to break into the house. There were no police available to respond and she was beaten and raped. Most screech about how it must be fake or that the dispatcher didn't do her job, and a LOT call for suing the dispatcher and the police. But the LAW is clear. The police are under no obligation to protect an individual, only society at large.
YOU are responsible for your safety and ONLY YOU can ensure that you are safe. Firearms level the field between evil and good..... but ONLY if the good carry them.



I carry OPENLY every day and it is superior to concealed carry (i.e. "don't advertise"). If someone chooses to be sneaky and conceal that's fine but it's in no way morally or tactically superior. The only significant threat to an open carrier is an untrained or corrupt government agent responding to the screeches of a Karen or Ken who don't like some lawful activities. Karen and Ken also tend to screech that they "support the second amendment butt.....". I call them "butters" and the US, as well as the NRA, is full of them.



Locks are worthless, except to keep "honest" people honest. Lock pics are available online for $20 including practice locks and all the picks necessary for the vast majority of locks that you might use on your skoolie. Of course Harbor freight sells a nice "Master key" set, any but the smallest of which will cut your lock.....never mind all the glass.

Now, what do I carry? Currently my EDC is an FN five-seven with 21 rounds of ballistic tipped hollow points and 2 mags of 20 rounds each in FMJ. It's carried IN THE OPEN and I really don't care if people don't like it. I WEAR it to the grocery store, parts store, big box stores, banks, everywhere including Starbucks (passing through to Barnes and Nobel), Walmart, and Kroger all of which have alleged no guns policies but whos policies specifically state they won't ask you to leave.
I occasionally carry an AR15 slung, in addition to the FN. This is done during activism and depending on the mission it may be carried across my back or slung tactically across my chest fully loaded with enhanced penetration NATO rounds.
I very occasionally (during activism) carry the Hello Kitty Multifunctional Weapons System which consists of a home build 12 gauge shotgun with Hello Kitty motif stock for attracting children. This has been carried inside the state capitol and entertained a number of state police as I described its functions and construction.


When I take to the skoolie full time, I'll be selecting a few weapons that are legal in every state (other than DC and NY which I have no desire to visit). ONE of those will be a double barrel 12ga shotgun pistol that is legal because it is a muzzle loader. Trust me, two 12ga rounds of 00 buck is sufficient to take care of business and black powder doesn't mean ineffective. There will probably also be a 12ga pump shotgun and a bolt or lever action rifle of at least 30 caliber..... AND ..... something Semi-Auto to carry on my hip in the MAJORITY of states where open carry is legal.
WHY? because it's my RIGHT and I don't need to concern myself with whether or not someone approves of my chosen means of exercising my rights.
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:12 AM   #32
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you know what makes me feel safe in my bus? good locks.

The key word in your statement is "FEEL". There is a big difference between feeling safe and being safe.


Go to YouTube and search for the channel "Lockpicking lawyer". You'll never look at a lock the same.
I ordered a $20 pick set on Amazon. It came with a case, assorted pics, and three clear plastic practice locks. After about three hours of playing with the practice locks I went out to my bus and in less than five minutes picked the lock box for the video hard drive in my bus.....and it was below my lap, on my left, and in a narrow gap between the seat and wall. I then went to my front door and in less than a minute had picked the dead bolt AND the door knob.
Locks are pretty much worthless except to make the masses FEEL safe.
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:16 AM   #33
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Never advertise you are carrying.
I disagree on this one as I did the research. Many documented cases of open carry deterring crimes from battery to armed robbery and more. There are also many documented cases of concealed carriers being accosted by would be muggers and having to decide between drawing against someone with the drop on them or submitting and hoping for the best. There have also been several federally funded studies in which hardened criminals are on record as being far more fearful of an armed citizen than an armed police officer. Criminals AVOID armed people so why in the world would you want to hide it from them?


The rest....good advice.
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Old 09-24-2021, 07:30 AM   #34
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I disagree on this one as I did the research. Many documented cases of open carry deterring crimes from battery to armed robbery and more. There are also many documented cases of concealed carriers being accosted by would be muggers and having to decide between drawing against someone with the drop on them or submitting and hoping for the best. There have also been several federally funded studies in which hardened criminals are on record as being far more fearful of an armed citizen than an armed police officer. Criminals AVOID armed people so why in the world would you want to hide it from them?


The rest....good advice.

I think this is Key, DETER.. in all cases (that are people ive known), not a single round was fired even though weapons were drawn, in all cases the situation was brought under control..


seeing someone open carry doesnt bother me, it just doesnt


I can honestly though see why people do conceal.. esp in totday's politically charged karen-ified society.. where many feel better about themselves by somehow demeaning others for whatever reason..



the only time I have a problem with someone carrying is in an establishment where it is prohibited.. thats disrespecting the wishes of the owner.. the choice would be to go someplace that is welcoming of lawful carry..



as for locks and alarms? I think they very much do have a purpose.. to slow someone down long enough for the occupant to ready himself.


if you are going to kick in the front door of my house the first kick is going to wake me up the second kick very well might get you in and ready to run back out..



the police are only but a formality so I can get a new door courtesy of state farm..
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:08 PM   #35
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My $0.02:
Anyone who open carries in public subjects themselves to being stopped by law enforcement for a safety check, at the least.
Especially if some concerned citizen has called them complaining that you are scaring or offending them by openly carrying your weapon.
Another twist is if someone opposed to our Second Amendment anonymously and erroneously reports you "pulled" it on them for no reason.

Goes without saying you'll be stopped from continuing your travels until cleared by law enforcement, however long that might take.

I am not against open carry, but for me it is not worth the aggravation it might bring under the above scenario.

Concealed carry eliminates all of that, if concealed properly.
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Old 09-24-2021, 04:27 PM   #36
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I already have had someone try to "enter" my bus while I was sleeping inside. I stop short of saying "break in".


I was at Red Rocks amphitheater in CO to see Widespread Panic last June. Three nights. You can park there overnight (keeps the drunks from driving - leave by 10:00AM), except for buses and RVs. I have a motor home, so....


It was the only rainy days I saw in three months, of course, and mostly only rained during the show, of course.


The first night I was woken by someone trying to open the double door. It was locked from the outside with a shitty, easy to pick, worn out little factory lock (I would replace it, but they welded the lock assembly into the door frame ).


That alerted me, and I readied my weapons.


Then the guy moved to the back door, and tried that. Locked from the inside, but the handle moves 1/3 of the way. Then, through the black curtains and tinted windows, I could see him just hanging around my bus. Leaning against the side.


Is this a crackhead/tweeker looking for stuff to steal for drug money? (it was a concert, after all, and although the crowd for WSP is pretty tame and kind and gettin' .... ah .... old, they are known for "partying", and maybe a millennial "kid" showed up all wacked out.) A real thief trying to exploit the concert goers? Am I really in danger of my life, or is it just some guy who thinks the bus is empty?


He left, and I opened the back door (for some reason I can't remember) and closed it quickly. Couldn't see him around, but he was right back, trying to open that back door, and hung around for a while, while he kept trying from time to time.



Then it started to rain the cold rain again. And I heard him moan, and saw/felt him lean against the outside of the bus, and slid downward.


Just some looser without a ride out of there, stuck in the rain, freezing cold with no shelter or jacket, looking for a place to sleep for the night.


I think it was Zerk or Zork or whomever that showed us a lock for the double front door, but still only lockable from the outside. "When I'm inside, I have something else for them" or whatever he said, making me think of guns.


I really don't want to have to kill someone. I'll take the locks, first. That will give me time to run them off. You gonna break into MY bus when I'm IN it? Foolish. You'd better back down!


In this case, he never tried to "break in", so I chose to remain silent. I might pop out a window, or appear on the roof, if things got worse. Thing is, I can see them, but they can't see me.



After fixin' all the broken stuff, and gettin' the stereo fully set up, and some other things, I'm thinking of a custom remote-controlled lock. Can't pick that, gotta be around long enough to have your custom electronic equipment scan the airwaves when I use my remote.


Or a guy I saw on UTube showed how to make an electrical circuit switch controlled by a magnetic lock.


Maybe build my own, using copper tubing and neodymium round magnets to power the pistons in the tubing. Would be really simple....some pistons come out, some go in; nothing electronic. Would look like a blank box, no where to put in a key. They "key" would be a stick with some magnets glued to it, in the proper places, in the proper polarity. Just hold the key to the box in the right place. Unless you knew ahead of time, you wouldn't be "picking" it. But if you knew, it would be easy with just a handful of magnets.
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Old 09-24-2021, 05:21 PM   #37
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I was almost shot getting my mail a few weeks ago.
A coke deal gone wrong at the end of the street- both parties dumped their mags at each other and no one was hit.
Bullets whizzed by me and I was pretty pissed. I saw some cops a little later at the scene and went down to tell them about it. They said it was "some sort of deal that went wrong" but they didn't arrest anyone. It was pretty surreal. Like they showed up armed to do a drug deal and that's ok?
I'm well armed but what good is it when bullets randomly fly from drug deals?
these days a couple jabs of moderna and a mask are way more likely to save your life than a gun is.
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Old 09-24-2021, 05:43 PM   #38
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I was almost shot getting my mail a few weeks ago.
A coke deal gone wrong at the end of the street- both parties dumped their mags at each other and no one was hit.
Bullets whizzed by me and I was pretty pissed. I saw some cops a little later at the scene and went down to tell them about it. They said it was "some sort of deal that went wrong" but they didn't arrest anyone. It was pretty surreal. Like they showed up armed to do a drug deal and that's ok?
I'm well armed but what good is it when bullets randomly fly from drug deals?
these days a couple jabs of moderna and a mask are way more likely to save your life than a gun is.

that goes to my point that almost every case where there are actual bullets flying, the people know each other.. not from a gun carrying citizen wanting to protect himself.. drugs are unfortunately a leading cause of gun violence...



my needle full of JnJ hasnt let me down yet..
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Old 09-25-2021, 03:11 PM   #39
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I'm stuck in the city until my tranny gets replaced. Already over a month. I can park where the traffic is loud, and "feel" kinda safe.


I've been looking for a quiet place to park. When I find them, there is always some beat-up falling apart 30-year-old motor home with insulation hanging out the sides of torn-metal walls (sticks & staples!) and piles of junk and garbage piled around. But no other motor homes nearby (they are everywhere in this city - so how did this place get overlooked?).



I park there, and all night long traffic goes there to visit the pile of junk at the end of a 100-foot long dead-end road with no building. Like they must have a live band or something there.


Needless to say, I'm back at the noisy spot, lest I be dodging random bullets through my windows.


GIVE ME THE MOUNTAINS!
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Old 09-25-2021, 04:50 PM   #40
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@peteg59 I would reply that it truly depends on where you live. I can imagine in NH it's hard to avoid scornful glances when you exercise your 2A right but a lot of states still have their heads on reasonably straight and don't give it much second thought.

Case in point, when I lived in Indianapolis my home was broken into repeatedly, fortunately I was never home. When the police visited on the first occasion to formalize the report for my insurance, I asked about the situation from their perspective. According to Indiana castle doctrine, if they're in the house or actively attempting entry, it is self defense up to and including lethal force in self defense. Outside the house but on the property, including breaking into a car, that's a lot more tricky because there's less evidence of imminent personal danger and taking a life to prevent property damage doesn't satisfy the castle doctrine. They were also surprised the gun safe on the second floor didn't fall through the floor!! It took 4 people to move it without the door on.

As far as traveling, an RV or skoolie is by extension a domicile and any reasonable state will apply the castle doctrine if the obvious intent is forced entry and personal jeopardy. Spray painting the side? Aggravating but not imminent danger. I apply the same principle when I'm on the road in the truck because that sleeper is my home away from home and if someone is breaking in the front doors I have no avenue of retreat. Therefore I'm prepared to defend my own life with lethal force if it comes to that point. Now if they're breaking into the trailer, I'm not even getting out of the cab - just call the police and hit the record button on the dashcam in case there's any evidence that can be used later.

The key is situational awareness. Don't park where you don't feel safe. If you're unfamiliar with the area and it seems fine in the daylight but sketchy at night, spend the few bucks to head up the road. Truckers are often betrayed by their federally mandated hours of service and end up in less than desirable areas but smart drivers plan ahead so they don't end up there in the first place when their clock runs out. I apply the same rule to where I choose to shop, etc. If I don't like the neighborhood then armed or not I'm not going into that store because if my spidey senses were already going off then there's a far higher likelihood that store might experience a holdup or random shooting or whatever and now I'm forced into a situation to act or stand by when I really should have just stayed away in the first place.

And for what its worth, I carry concealed most of the time. I'm not there to be a hero, I'm mostly protecting myself. Open carry doesn't seem like it would be much deterrent against situations where I'm not the target, just a bystander, but it makes me a potential target because it essentially advertises I may be someone who will intercede in the situation which I'm not. If they were casing the door when I went in open carry now they know I'm a potential variable. Maybe it deters them from entering or maybe they take me out first. Not my idea of deterrence.
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