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Old 09-25-2021, 08:31 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
My $0.02:
Anyone who open carries in public subjects themselves to being stopped by law enforcement for a safety check, at the least.
That's funny. If it's lawful to carry then there is no such thing as a "safety check". To stop me without my consent requires Reasonable Articulable Suspicion" (RAS) that a crime has, is, or is about to be committed. A holstered or slung firearm doesn't meet that criteria. Nor does a call to the police negate the need for an officer to have RAS to stop an open carrier. AND the US Supreme Court has repeatedly held that "there is no firearms exception to the fourth amendment".
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Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
Especially if some concerned citizen has called them complaining that you are scaring or offending them by openly carrying your weapon.
Another twist is if someone opposed to our Second Amendment anonymously and erroneously reports you "pulled" it on them for no reason.
Still not RAS. They can claim whatever they want. Their feelings, fears, etc. are not relevant. As for a false report, yep, could happen. STILL does not provide the officer with RAS as they must observe said reported activity.
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Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
Goes without saying you'll be stopped from continuing your travels until cleared by law enforcement, however long that might take.
NAH. I've had numerous cop encounters. They have not even tried to detain me even when carrying a slung AR15 across the street from a college. Sometimes I've engaged in consensual conversation, others I've just kept on walking. If I'm ever accosted, it will be a payday I wasn't expecting since I don't carry ID and will not provide it verbally.

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Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
I am not against open carry, but for me it is not worth the aggravation it might bring under the above scenario.
Never had any aggravation but I have opened some eyes and educated some minds. Concealed carry has zero capacity for that.
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Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
Concealed carry eliminates all of that, if concealed properly.
Concealed carry is the realm of scoundrels, cheats, and other sundry undesirables. Or at least it was until the second amendment began to be violated at apparent will by government.
All it does today is subject a concealed carrier to the potential need to decide whether of not they can draw and fire before the knife wielding mugger stabs them (you can't) or the gun wielding mugger shoots them (you can't). It provides a FEELING of security while not truly providing any unless you are aware enough to see it coming....and criminals don't like to give you that chance.

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Old 09-26-2021, 02:04 PM   #42
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All good points gents.

All I'm saying is it's easier for me to exercise my second A right by concealing the fact I'm potentially carrying lethal protection.
Never had to use it to this point in my life, and certainly hope to never need that tool in my toolbox, ever.

Whatever gets you by is good, too.
Nuff said...
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Old 09-26-2021, 06:22 PM   #43
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All good points gents.

All I'm saying is it's easier for me to exercise my second A right by concealing the fact I'm potentially carrying lethal protection.
Never had to use it to this point in my life, and certainly hope to never need that tool in my toolbox, ever.

Whatever gets you by is good, too.
Nuff said...

If it works for you great but I just like people to be aware of the tactical and practical deficiencies of concealed carry.


Federal studies have repeatedly shown that even hardened criminals avoid armed citizens and fear an armed citizen more than a cop.



There are dozens of documented instances of criminals delaying their crimes until armed citizens departed or cancelling them entirely.


There are hundreds of documented cases in which concealed carriers were robbed by criminals who were unaware that they were armed.


There are very few cases where an open carrier was "targeted first" or "targeted because" they were open carriers.



From TWENTY ONE FEET a determined attacker with knife cannot be stopped by an armed defender before the knife cuts/stabs the defender. That's when OPEN CARRY. When concealed it's just that much longer to deploy.


Open carry has a deterrent affect on those who might otherwise think they can exert physical force with impunity. I have experienced this myself in a situation that no reasonable person would think it necessary. I was open carry, as always, and had taken out a 21' patio boat full of senior citizens from an assisted living facility for a day of fishing. At the end of the day the bus broke down and we had 12 frail seniors at the bottom of a long steep ramp and one vehicle with which to get them up the hill and to shade. It took a while and it was the only ramp available. The ONE waiting truck/trailer was impatient and stomping around his vehicle, throwing his arms up and about. He was probably 100 feet up the ramp but situational awareness had me well aware of him. We were making good progress with the seniors but here he came, stomping down the ramp and yelling. I ignored him as he wasn't close enough to be a threat and I was supporting a senior from the boat to the truck. This particular one had to go around the front of the truck which exposed my sidearm to the approaching "gentleman" who immediately stopped, turned around, and stomped back to his truck having decided that his beer belly and "wife beater" probably wouldn't stop one, let alone multiple, rounds.


The bottom line is that strategically, concealed carry hurts the gun rights of all by allowing ignorant people to believe that there are no guns around them when out and about. (here in Oregon more than 1 in 16 adults have concealed licenses).
And tactically, open carry is superior in that it deters criminals, allows more comfortable carry of larger, more effective sidearms (my every day carry is an FN with 21 rifle caliber rounds), and is quicker to deploy.


I do actually conceal occasionally. When I am teaching a class, I conceal because I want the subject matter to catch students minds, not the sidearm.



So, to each his own but consider how concealed hurts the pro gun agenda and how it degrades personal safety by requiring smaller less capable weapons and doesn't alert criminals that there are easier prey.
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Old 09-26-2021, 08:25 PM   #44
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wow, flashing your open carry to settle parking lot disputes.
it be a better story if he attacked a couple of the seniors and you took him out. just sayin

im not anti gun, but that seems like an inappropriate argument for any type of carry. do you cut in line at star buck's with your ak?

i hope the **** hits the fan for you guys and you win your parking spots.
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Old 09-26-2021, 09:05 PM   #45
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Some folks who decide to arm themselves for personal protection find that they are afraid or lack training on carrying and drawing on a threat, when push comes to shove. Usually discover that when under pressure/threat, and too late to save themselves.
In my opinion only, carrying open increases the chances for a physical encounter if a Ner~Do~Well is determined, or high on drugs, enough to try to take a strangers weapon by force.

Not everyone should carry open or concealed, due to the threat of having a weapon taken away and used against them in a life or death encounter. Especially if they are not prepared to deal with a life or death encounter, either mentally, physically, or both.

Practice with one's every day carry piece is key to overcoming fears and becoming proficient under pressure.

Here's an interesting vid on the subject of guns, with two opposing views.
A bit long, but interesting none the less.
Enjoy!
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Old 09-27-2021, 04:20 AM   #46
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Exclamation

I can't resist my commentary on this since it's an area of expertise being a licensed CCW and firearms instructor since Halloween 2005 and a former bail enforcement agent. I executed a few of subject acquisitions who were hiding in RVs as a nomadic fugitive. I will say with experience, they are the easiest to do. The hard part is finding the subject's RV. Many skoolies are nomads who camp in remote areas.

Gee, you're at a potential crime scene where no one may find you and you may not have mobile phone service. Be aware of what you're signing up for if you adopt a nomadic RV lifestyle. It's not all fun, glory and nature that many nomadic lifestyle YTers portray it to be. There are risks; many of them potentially deadly.

This is my answer to the problem.

I'm going to give you a Devil's advocate worst case scenario based on my experience. I was going to be graphic about it but decided not to. I've already given users here butthurt over my first post on this forum.

Being in an RV, you're at an immediate tactical disadvantage. You have concealment at best, not cover and the concealment isn't that great. A rifle round will easily penetrate from the front to the back of the RV and through it. The only places on an RV that provide cover are being on the outside crouching behind a tire or the engine compartment. There's enough metal to defeat most rounds. Inside, a 9x19mm round will likely significantly penetrate from the front to the back of the RV. The internal walls one places in an RV are no where near as sturdy as a bricks & sticks home.

Locks are a minor deterrent. I'm disabled with a bad back and suffer from chronic pain from complications of major spine surgery. I could easily solo storm a bus with unarmed occupants and take it over like a home invasion scene from A Clockwork Orange (1971). The door on your bus or any RV are typically a minor deterrent as I've breeched them before.

Road piracy happens. See the movies Breakdown (1997) or The Poughkeepsie Tapes (2007). I'm sure there are many graveyards in remote areas with the graves of people who are missing and probably will never be found.

I teach this regularly for years so my students don't become a missing person.

Your only options in an RV are either have an evac plan from your current site or you arm yourself. That's it. Either run or fight. If the subject intending to cause you harm disables one of your front wheels, your only option is to fight.

I recommend everyone have some sort of parameter alarm system for their RV so they don't get boxed in an ambush. You're at an immediate disadvantage.

To quote Ash from Alien (1979).
---
As for my mobile armory when I'm traveling.
  • AR-15 preferably an AR pistol as you can legally have it loaded with your CCW unless the State has an AWB; this may change with new BATFE regulations and pistol braces in either .223 Rem/5.56mm, .300 BLK or 5.45x39mm. I originally bought my first AR-15 in that caliber because Eastern Bloc 7N6 is steel core which gives it armor piercing properties in case you need to shoot into a subject's grill to disable their vehicle. A well placed shot into the engine compartment of a vehicle will stop it plus it will easily go through a windshield if you want to go for the driver pursuing you for nefarious purposes.
  • Keltec KSG loaded with Aguila buckshot minishells; 24 rounds, 12 in each mag tube.
  • A few handguns; two or three SIGs, a Charter Arms Pitbull revolver and my Bond Arms Backup with a .410/.45 LC barrel. If I'm going into bear country, I have one of my .44 magnums with me. I'm going to buy an FK BRNO PSD in the near future.
  • A sword cane; a touchy issue as you're dealing with State by State knife and martial arts weapons laws. One of the reasons I didn't move to Oregon back in 2018 is that I couldn't legally carry a sword cane on or about my person daily. You can in Nevada. This became legalized when the switchblade law was repealed a few years ago.
I'm prepared for war because 911 is not minutes but hours if not days away. If you're out in rural or remote areas, you're on your own. If a reincarnation of Ted Bundy comes for you, you need to take care of business. Ted Bundy disposed of his victims in rural or wilderness areas.
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Old 09-27-2021, 05:17 AM   #47
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Exclamation Sifting through the discussion...

I sifted through the thread. Here's my commentary being a CCW and firearms instructor.
  • Concealed v. open carry; your choice. Do what floats your boat. I choose concealed because there are businesses that will not allow open carry (i.e. casinos) plus I like the tactical advantage of having mine concealed. I've met open carriers and have started discussions or have made a comment on admiration of their sidearm. If I see someone OC'ing a handgun I'm potentially interested in, I ask them prepurchase questions if they have the time.
  • Castle doctrine; it typically applies to your RV. It does in NV, the castle doctrine also applies to a motor vehicle you're legally operating.
  • Avoid anti shall issue CCW jurisdictions; CA, MA, NJ an NY are the big ones. MA, NJ and NY require a permit to touch a gun. There's much litigation against those States for them violating the FOPA. Here's a case of how much of a black water tank NJ is. Whenever I fly to the northeastern US, I have a major backdoor pucker factor that the flight will be diverted to NJ or NY. I attended the Great American Outdoor Show in 2015 on business. My flight was into Philly and I had a few unloaded firearms in my checked baggage with a can of ammo. My anxiety level of a possible diverted flight was a bit on the upper level.
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Old 09-27-2021, 12:35 PM   #48
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In 2010 I treated several individuals who had been the subject of an ambush by AAF. They were convoying local nationals in 1980’s ish mercedes sedans and toyota corolla station wagons escorted by ANA in ford rangers to a shura. One or more of their attackers had 5.45’s and my impression is that they tumbled violently. it seemed like they were tumbling after the 1st layer of sheet metal. They would then impact sideways and “poop” the core out of the back of the bullet making 2 projectiles 1 being the jacket 1 being the core. I was thinking at the time that if it had been 7.62x39 a lot more people would have died.
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Old 09-27-2021, 01:15 PM   #49
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Folks - this thread is closed.

The forum is intended for discussions about Skoolies and related Rving but not for debates about weaponry.

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Fair Warning: Discussions about politics, religion and weaponry will be closed or removed.
Full text here: https://www.skoolie.net/forums/misc....ork&page=rules

Thanks for understanding.
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