How dry I am

[Oldyeller]

I was reading the thread Wood Framing and Condensation when I saw a post by Bigmikeclark suggesting that you make sure you keep the humidity low in your bus as a way to combat condensation.

Keeping the humidity low is not something I can do. We all have our infirmities and for me respiratory infections are it. As soon as the temps start to drop in the fall I have to start humidifying my bedroom or I'll, more often than not, end up with bronchitis or worse, pneumonia. It's been this way all my life and my father was the same. Last winter I avoided it because I was in Daytona Beach, but even there I had to use a crock pot (my humidifier of choice for many years) during the colder periods. This year, being stuck in New Jersey, I got bronchitis (maybe it was actually 'bronchomacron' the week after Christmas and I'll likely have it for several more weeks.

In my bus I'll either have to keep the humidity high enough to keep my nasal passages from drying out or I'll end up being sick for weeks on end. I'm going to have to do what's necessary to insure that I don't get sick. During the day it's not an issue but at night it is. I may curtain off the bed area so I can raise the humidity there while keeping the rest of the bus at lower humidity. The nice thing about a crock pot is it not only humidifies, it also heats. It'll be interesting to see if I can get away with using that as my primary heat source while I'm sleeping. Guess I'll have to do some good calculations concerning the power consumption of a crock pot overnight so I don't run out of power.

Is my problem unique or are there others who have respiratory issues when the humidity drops in the winter. If you share my curse what have you done on your bus to keep from getting respiratory infections when the humidity goes down?

[Hilary]

I know you say this is a genetic thing, but I bet you may have some deficiencies too. Check out this video. My partner did very well for several years with B1 and D3. But he also stopped and started smoking. When he smoked he also needed a lot of inhaler usage. He just passed away in August at 58. I know he would have lived longer if he never started smoking again. Good luck with it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWOqHX04xFY

[cadillackid]

if you cant keep the relative humidity low then LOTS of insulation is key.. ciondensation only occurs on surfaces that are colder than the Dewpoint of the air inside.. so if you insulate really well then all of the bus surfaces will be above the dewpoint of the air..



windows are the weakest point.. if you plan on any cold weather stays with higher humidity inside you'll either want double pane windows or an inside storm type setup which keeps the innermost surface warm.



in my house my humidifier adjust the inside humidity based on outside temp or ill end up with condensation in the corners of the windows..



relative humidity is just that.. relative.. you can have 100% humidity at 35 degrees and the dewpoint would be 35.. at 70 relative humidity 100% would be a dewpoint of 70.. theres a HUGE difference in the amount of moisture in the air... if the dewpoint is 50 and the bus walls are 45.. they are gonna get wet...

[john61ct]

No wood.

Or if used sparingly, like the metal surfaces well encapsulated with waterproof coatings, e. g. epoxy paint.

Closed cell foam, resistant to absorption.

Panels easily removable to inspect for mould and rust.

Ability to get the interior up above say 90°F for a few hours when outside ambient is dry, get everything back to bone dry pretty frequently.

Avoid places like the PNW.

Otherwise you'll get bad health from black mould and also rust your bus out from the inside.

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by john61ct

No wood.

Or if used sparingly, like the metal surfaces well encapsulated with waterproof coatings, e. g. epoxy paint.

Closed cell foam, resistant to absorption.

Panels easily removable to inspect for mould and rust.

Ability to get the interior up above say 90°F for a few hours when outside ambient is dry, get everything back to bone dry pretty frequently.

Avoid places like the PNW.

Otherwise you'll get bad health from black mould and also rust your bus out from the inside.

Yea, that's pretty much how I figure it too. My wall panels have 20 to 30 spot welds along the top of each so easily removable isn't an option. I suppose I could cut each panel just below the spot welds, been thinking about that. I bought an inexpensive plasma cutter and that might be a nice first job for it, time will tell.

[john61ct]

Do you mean the outer skin? leave that in place

anti-rust converter treatment, super sealing coating in top lots of thin coats

I was talking the interior panels, sandwich insulating foam + your inner skin, those shojld be easily removable for frequent inspection for mould

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Do you mean the outer skin? leave that in place

anti-rust converter treatment, super sealing coating in top lots of thin coats

I was talking the interior panels, sandwich insulating foam + your inner skin, those shojld be easily removable for frequent inspection for mould

No, talking about the inner wall panels. Mine screw on but the top edges are spot welded to the window sill. When I pulled the insulation out of the walls I had to remove all the screws, bend the inner wall skins up and prop them so I could get at the insulation. Can you say, 'inconvenient'?

I just remembered I took a couple pictures of the inner wall panels when I had them propped up. You can see they're attached at the top though you can't tell from the picture that the attachments are spot welds.

[john61ct]

Wow yes I would've cut them out first thing.

Carefully, to use as templates if nothing else.

If you need the space to be well insulated you'll need getting rid of, or covering over lots of windows

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Wow yes I would've cut them out first thing.

Carefully, to use as templates if nothing else.

If you need the space to be well insulated you'll need getting rid of, or covering over lots of windows

apparently there must be a lot of cave dwellers here.. seems first thing people do is tell others to delete all their windows..



doesnt that make for dark, depressing, drab, space?

[TheHubbardBus]

We're keeping all our bus windows, framing them out so there's a 2.5" deep square space surrounding each, into which can fit home-made insulated cushions. When insulation needs demand it, in the cushions go, otherwise... they're cushions. At least that's the plan.

OldYeller... if you're looking to remove those side skirts entirely, we used a spot-weld cutter (drill attachment). In retrospect, however, cutting just below the weld line is probably a better method. Certainly less labor-intensive. If you want to seal up the framework the windows sit in to prevent leakage down into your walls, you'll probably want to cut as high-up as you can so you can get in there, and likely caulk liberally. You'll see what I mean (look at the corners)... as they come, they're sieves into the walls, whether it's from condensation or leaks.

For wall/ceiling insulation, assuming you don't spray-foam, I'd think you want to make sure you have a good vapor barrier on the interior (to prevent as best as possible moisture from the interior making into the wall), coupled with a way to dry out the wall assembly when moisture inevitably finds its way inside despite your best efforts. Anything you can't adequately insulate (windows, any exposed metal, etc) is going to be something you're going to want to think about... condensation will form on it... where does that moisture go and how do you keep it from destroying what's around it?

Watersealing any wood you use would likely be a good idea. Plenty of options, some with fungicides as well.

Does your whole bus need to be humidified? Could you limit it to just a portion using permanent / temporarly partitions?

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Wow yes I would've cut them out first thing.

Carefully, to use as templates if nothing else.

If you need the space to be well insulated you'll need getting rid of, or covering over lots of windows

In my initial post in this thread I mentioned that I had been reading the thread Wood Framing and Condensation which prompted me to start this one. Both threads taken together have moved me forward in my planning for my bus.

I'm amazed by the folks that have a floor plan before they even start working on their buses. Me??? I still don't know for sure what I'm going to do in my bus though some things have become clear at this point. I know my solar power center will be behind the driver's seat. Why? Because that's where the main interior harness is and the chassis battery box and fuse panel are right there as well. Also the fuel tank is on the other side of the bus at about the same point so putting the batteries on the opposite side of the bus (and the kitchen as well, hmmm, I guess I've made that decision too) will keep weight distributed evenly.

I've already decided I'm NOT going to try to humidify the whole bus at night, that would be difficult. I've decided on diesel heaters and folks comment that they don't produce as much humidity as propane so I'm NOT going to do that back and forth battle between the diesel heater drying the air and a humidifier trying to keep it moist.

I recently decided how I'm going to make my bed platform but this thread has me rethinking it. I think given my need to be able to humidify my sleeping are I'm going to have to attempt to partition the bed from the rest of the bus. I don't want to build stud walls so I'm going to have to come up with other ways to seal the 'garage' area below the bed. To seal off the bed from the rest of the living area I'll probably rig curtains, that should be simple enough.

To your point about the windows. Perhaps I'll construct 'plugs' for the windows in the sleeping area that will fit tightly into the windows. I don't want to remove windows - here's why. When I was trying to decide what type of vehicle I wanted to convert (or if I even wanted to convert anything but just buy an RV) I considered step vans and box trucks. Both made better sense than a school bus from certain perspectives, one being the lack of windows and having to work around them, reseal them. cover them when necessary. Then I found one particular YouTube video made by a young couple in a short skoolie. The thing that struck me about their bus was how bright it was, how airy. The outdoors seemed to come inside. Right then I think I made the decision on a school bus. I'm going to have to spend a lot of time resealing my windows. Maybe somewhere down the road I'll replace some of the school bus windows with better RV windows but I'm NOT going to get rid of any more windows than absolutely necessary.

[john61ct]

Yes a layered "plug" cover that seals well into the surrounding panels could work well. Maybe hinged?

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

apparently there must be a lot of cave dwellers here.. seems first thing people do is tell others to delete all their windows..



doesnt that make for dark, depressing, drab, space?

Well being thermally comfortable would be my priority

if your lifestyle allowed for "following the sixties" best of both worlds

in extreme cold I suppose triple pane thermals could be made to work.

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes a layered "plug" cover that seals well into the surrounding panels could work well. Maybe hinged?

I think in my first winter on the road I'll be doing things down and dirty so hinged is probably too sophisticated for what I'll have time to accomplish in the coming summer. Truth is I may well be mostly camping in the bus the first winter.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Well being thermally comfortable would be my priority

if your lifestyle allowed for "following the sixties" best of both worlds

in extreme cold I suppose triple pane thermals could be made to work.

being thermally comfortable is my priority too.. thats why I have a 45,000 BTU diesel heater in a 7 window bus even when its 0f outside its 75 or higher in the bus (after the metal core gets warmed up if ive left it parked cold overnight that can take close to an hour).


however hunkering seems to be a thing i fail to understand.. the many houses in my neighborhood that ive never seen a blind open or a window open... lots of them.. so apparently lots of people enjoy that hermit life..

[Oldyeller]

Hey Cadillackid, I just noticed that you're in Columbus, Ohio. Do you know Syracuse OH? I have relatives there and I was born just across the border in PA. As teenagers we would drive to Negley for the 3.2% beer. Seems like it was in the last millenium . . . oh . . . it was in the last millenium. Guess it does seem like a thousand years ago even if it's only been 50 or so.

[TaliaDPerkins]

They had a small beer law? I thought those went out with the Middle Ages...

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by TomDPerkins

They had a small beer law? I thought those went out with the Middle Ages...

You missed the part about it being more than 50 years ago?

[TaliaDPerkins]

Eh...


I meant literally Middle Ages. Like quit being legally a thing in the 12~1400s.
Not that people quit making it, just that they quit caring about it as a legality thing.

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by TomDPerkins

Eh...


I meant literally Middle Ages. Like quit being legally a thing in the 12~1400s.
Not that people quit making it, just that they quit caring about it as a legality thing.

Maybe it's that I'm not familiar with the term 'small beer'. Typical beer has an alcohol content of 5 to 6 %. Light beer is about 4.2%. I believe the stuff we could get as 18 year olds in Ohio was 3.2%. In PA we couldn't legally buy beer of any kind until 21.