Hypothetical: Cutting the bus?

[JustKip]

Hope I'm not too far out in left field with this line of questioning in this forum.
Roof raises are pretty commonplace in this crowd, but an overwhelming majority of the builders and owners here are mainly dealing with a stock bus that's less than 30 years old. Those that do modify the body are generally just doing a roof raise, which is pretty straight forward, cut the hat channel and extend, then skin over the new gap and often some windows.

I'm living in an alternate universe compared to that. I've wanted a vintage short bus forever, but have specific size parameters I'm shooting for while still looking cool. Basically, I want a 5 window hotrod bus, but most of the coolest buses are full size, more or less. I seriously considered buying Tango's 4 window Chevy project, but there were too many things that just didn't fit my plans.

So here's the deal. I've found a White SuperPower with good sheet metal, but it's quite a bit longer than I want. I'm thinking of cutting it into pieces, and putting it together on a modern chassis. This would involve reducing the length by about 8 feet, and relocating the wheelwell.
Is this an insane undertaking for someone who has never done more than engine and axle swaps in old Jeeps? I do have over 30 years experience in steel fabrication, and the cabin part doesn't really concern me. But making the dognose of a 70 year old bus fit a chassis and engine could get a little sketchy.
Jump in with both feet, or forget about it and buy a van?

[EastCoastCB]

You sound like just the guy to do such a project.

Have you seen Tango's '46?

[Ronnie]

Oh forget about it....no point in dreaming....

Ok for real you have done engine swaps, do metal work, so this is bigger, so what, go for it. Yes there will be a learning curve, and there will be nay sayers. So if you have the stick to it ness, and willing to make some mistakes and learn go for it. Build your dream

[Sleddgracer]

you'll never know if you can do it until you try - I lend my voice to those saying 'GO FOR IT'

[ol trunt]

By the late 40's most buses were of sectionalized construction and therefore lend themselves to the sort of thing you propose. Further, the frame widths on trucks had by then been standardized making frame changes fairly straight forward.

My little bus is a cut and paste job with a late model chassis so I know it can be done. I'd like to hear more about your plans and I'm sure others would too.

I'd be interested in swapping war stories but I don't want to clog up the site so shoot me a PM if you wish.
Jack

[JustKip]

Originally Posted by ol trunt

By the late 40's most buses were of sectionalized construction and therefore lend themselves to the sort of thing you propose. Further, the frame widths on trucks had by then been standardized making frame changes fairly straight forward.

My little bus is a cut and paste job with a late model chassis so I know it can be done. I'd like to hear more about your plans and I'm sure others would too.

I'd be interested in swapping war stories but I don't want to clog up the site so shoot me a PM if you wish.
Jack

It isn't clogging if I started the thread specifically to discuss what you know, and I only speculate. This IS the place, and I'm sure others would like to hear what you know, and see me embarrass myself.

I dunno about standardized frame widths. The guys who are swapping Chevy pick ups onto modern chassis say that the '55-59 fits modern full size, but '54 and earlier are more suited to an S-10 chassis. But a White is a full sized vehicle. They made the tour buses for Yellowstone and Glacier parks, but those have a more sedan-like coach. The over the road buses have a normal coach body, compared to the airport limo style of the park buses. Wish I could post pics here, but my computer seems to think that the box that opens when you click the little icon is a pop-up, and kills it in half a second.

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

You sound like just the guy to do such a project.

Have you seen Tango's '46?

I have seen Tango's bus, and mentioned it in the OP. Excellent build, but too short and I wouldn't have chosen that engine.

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Oh forget about it....no point in dreaming....

Ok for real you have done engine swaps, do metal work, so this is bigger, so what, go for it. Yes there will be a learning curve, and there will be nay sayers. So if you have the stick to it ness, and willing to make some mistakes and learn go for it. Build your dream

Definitely no bigger than some things I've participated in building, which has been anything from perforated sheet metal decorative, to multiple 35,000 lbs frames that bolted together under water, with an allowable 1/16" tolerance in bolt holes.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Originally Posted by ol trunt

..... Further, the frame widths on trucks had by then been standardized making frame changes fairly straight forward....

Originally Posted by JustKip

I dunno about standardized frame widths. The guys who are swapping Chevy pick ups onto modern chassis say that the '55-59 fits modern full size, but '54 and earlier are more suited to an S-10 chassis. But a White is a full sized vehicle. They made the tour buses for Yellowstone and Glacier parks, but those have a more sedan-like coach. The over the road buses have a normal coach body, compared to the airport limo style of the park buses. Wish I could post pics here, but my computer seems to think that the box that opens when you click the little icon is a pop-up, and kills it in half a second....

I think in this case we're referring to trucks above a "light duty" (one-ton and under), basically anything medium and heavy duty. From what I remember, virtually all trucks and medium duty chassis use the same frame widths over the last 50-60 years or so. Mack was said to be the only exception as I recall. This excludes the lighter frames from Ford, GM and smaller trucks and coaches, since none of those would see medium duty use, 26' boxes, fifth wheels, and any of that, and in the case of coaches they are purpose built by the factory.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

Anything can be done with the right tools,mindset,planning and patience.
With yourself and the ones you ask to help/need help from.
There is another member here i think his profile name is Versatile that has swapped an old school bus body onto a modern frame already.
if you have fab skills and the place to do the work then your dream project only requires
You
Time
Money
Patience if finding the best candidates and the actual build.
With a body off build on a new chassis you could raise the body on spacer blocks enough to delete the wheel wells period if wanted and maybe even swap onto a 4 wheel drive chassis with the extra clearance.
I have daydreamed about getting an electrical utilities power line 4 wheel drive truck and extending the frame to fit my full size bus body.
i have the tools,equipment and knowledge but not the place or the money.
Not a fools errand if thats what you want.
GOOD LUCK

[JustKip]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

With a body off build on a new chassis you could raise the body on spacer blocks enough to delete the wheel wells period if wanted and maybe even swap onto a 4 wheel drive chassis with the extra clearance.
I have daydreamed about getting an electrical utilities power line 4 wheel drive truck and extending the frame to fit my full size bus body.

Or,better yet, an Army "deuce and a half" 6x6!

[HazMatt]

THAT would be the talk of the campfire!
More power!!!
Unh, unh-unh!

[GaryTheRock]

I have a handicap equipped shorty, Ford E450 with a Goshen body. It currently has a motor home title, registration, and insurance.
The thing I wish to do is to move the Goshen body to a Ford E550, or maybe just swap the frame including the front to what I have.
I don't know how big a modification I can do and still claim it is my original E450.
The entire reason I want to make this change is because I hate the doghouse an E450 has. Changing the 10 spark plugs was very difficult, complicated by the Ford torque requirements, and the few threads in the block that strip easily. I have no need for the engine stuffed half way into the van, up next to the driver. I often work on my own engines and like easy access. A pickup I once owned I could dangle my legs in the compartment, sitting on the left or right fender, while working on the engine.
The Ford E550 buses are way too long for what I want. It would also mean calling the county Sheriff out a third time and changing a title to be a motor home. They're gonna start wondering why I have so many.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Originally Posted by GaryTheRock

I have a handicap equipped shorty, Ford E450 with a Goshen body. It currently has a motor home title, registration, and insurance.
The thing I wish to do is to move the Goshen body to a Ford E550, or maybe just swap the frame including the front to what I have.
I don't know how big a modification I can do and still claim it is my original E450.
The entire reason I want to make this change is because I hate the doghouse an E450 has. Changing the 10 spark plugs was very difficult, complicated by the Ford torque requirements, and the few threads in the block that strip easily. I have no need for the engine stuffed half way into the van, up next to the driver. I often work on my own engines and like easy access. A pickup I once owned I could dangle my legs in the compartment, sitting on the left or right fender, while working on the engine.
The Ford E550 buses are way too long for what I want. It would also mean calling the county Sheriff out a third time and changing a title to be a motor home. They're gonna start wondering why I have so many.

Remember those fiberglass body kits that used a VW Beetle chassis and drivetrain? I believe most of those used the original VW VIN for the purpose of registration and insurance. Ford build your bus as a "Cab-and-chassis" incomplete vehicle, most of which became either buses or box trucks. The final Certificate of Origin is usually issued by whoever completes the body, such as Blue Bird, Goshen, or whoever built the body.


In your case, the VIN should probably remain part of the cowl/firewall (where the factory put it) and swapping it from one to another is likely to become VIN swapping (which is generally illegal). Swapping the bus body, however, should be fine, just use the VIN for the other Ford.

[BeNimble]

If you are willing to do that much work, I would suggest you cut off the cab and make it into a trailer. Then get a truck to tow it, whatever truck suits your fancy today or tomorrow.

The rules on modifications depend on the state. California uses the body, so a frame swap is ok, but a cab swap is removing the body part, so it would not be the e450 anymore.

[o1marc]

Since most buses are assembled from about 2' long sections, shortening one is as easy as removing however many sections you want.

[GaryTheRock]

Thanks for all your replies.
It's back to brainstorming solutions.

I currently own two motor homes, one longer and better equipped for traveling and not finished, both have wheel chair lifts, and a shorty I use mostly to take my wife places because she has an electric wheel chair.

When I get to the point of replacement I will have to buy one closer to what I want. No dog house next time! A dog house is no advantage for me and cause maintenance to be difficult. I want an engine with a hood over the whole thing for easy access. I really like the idea of the truck with the tilt forward hood where the whole front of the truck is exposed with the hood open!

I have wondered about the pushers and how difficult they would be to repair. I'm unlikely to get a short pusher anyway.

I recently did see some buses at auction that fit my requirements with two drawbacks, one is they are too long, and the other is a 60,000 GVW. I do not really understand if I can change the official GVW down to something more reasonable if I did shorten the bus. Some say all I need to do is declare it when I get the title and registration. Given my experiences to date, where it depends mostly on which tag person helps me, and other problems, I only count in things that are a done deal, in the past.

It wouldn't surprise me to eventually buy a bus that's too long and shorten it to meet my needs just so I can get the engine compartment right.