Intercooler Installation

[Stu & Filo. T]

Hello All;
I'm looking at my next step which is installing a Intercooler on my 8.3 Cummins that's installed in my Crown Pusher. One thought I have is building a scoop out of Fiberglass that starts at the roof with a intake that's about 8 inches high & say 3 ft wide that tapers down to about 2ft wide at the bottom, the scoop could run down the back of the bus & stop just above the cooling vents for the eng compartment. My thought process here is ,Positive Air Pressure scooped up at top of bus & as it narrows increases pressure in front of Intercooler but negative air pressure at exit of scoop because it would be down in vacuum area behind bus would pull air thru.

option 2; Mount a box or cooler inside eng compartment install Intercooler inside then when traveling fill box/cooler with water & a couple slabs of dry ice.

[Jolly Roger]

I like the scoop idea but think you would want a temperature controlled actuated damper at the opening's for the winter time.
Or just a way to cover it when not needed?

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

I like the scoop idea but think you would want a temperature controlled actuated damper at the opening's for the winter time.
Or just a way to cover it when not needed?

Ok I under stand the reason for a cover, if I make the scoop there would be a screen to prevent debris but confused about closing it for winter driving? Wouldn't colder the air the better??

[jake_blue]

Maybe more for the concern that it would get too cold, moisture freezes inside until it constricts the airflow entirely which suffocates your intake... Or maybe you're thinking about a separate intake?

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by jake_blue

Maybe more for the concern that it would get too cold, moisture freezes inside until it constricts the airflow entirely which suffocates your intake... Or maybe you're thinking about a separate intake?

Could air thru the turbo get cold enough to freeze any moister as it flows thru the Intercooler?:confuse d:

[jake_blue]

No idea, I was just pondering

[cowlitzcoach]

A scoop would run the risk of having the air flow interrupted by anything mounted on the roof. Things like A/C units or even stack vents.

What would work a lot better would be a snorkel that could go up through the interior and out the roof or along the side and up. The snorkel would only need a opening about 12"x12" to be more than adequate.

There were some Crown high decks with 8V-71's that had the snorkel up the side in the back. They looked rather odd but the buses were owned and operated as crew buses for mine. The buses ran on many miles of unpaved roads and the snorkels allowed for fresh air out of the dust that was kicked up by the bus going down the road.

[Tango]

The whole idea of an intercooler is to lower the temp of the incoming air to the cylinders. The lower the better. Low temp air is denser and will provide more oxy for combustion. THAT...is what an intercooler is for.

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

A scoop would run the risk of having the air flow interrupted by anything mounted on the roof. Things like A/C units or even stack vents.

What would work a lot better would be a snorkel that could go up through the interior and out the roof or along the side and up. The snorkel would only need a opening about 12"x12" to be more than adequate.

There were some Crown high decks with 8V-71's that had the snorkel up the side in the back. They looked rather odd but the buses were owned and operated as crew buses for mine. The buses ran on many miles of unpaved roads and the snorkels allowed for fresh air out of the dust that was kicked up by the bus going down the road.

I already have that for my intake & exhaust, I'm working on installing a Intercooler

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by Tango

The whole idea of an intercooler is to lower the temp of the incoming air to the cylinders. The lower the better. Low temp air is denser and will provide more oxy for combustion. THAT...is what an intercooler is for.

So what do you think of the idea of a Intercooler Immersed in water & ice for traveling days??

[Tango]

All that is really necessary is the transfer of heat into the air. There are two types of intercoolers...air to air...and ...air to water to air. Either will provide a significant benefit if designed and installed correctly. One thing to watch for is maintaining the proper pressure. A poorly designed intercooler will create too much pressure drop in the system.

[aaronsb]

My advice is to not bother with passive cooling of the intercooler, and instead use a hydraulic or electric fan configuration most rear engine intercoolers are installed with. Or PTO/belt.

Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T

Hello All;
I'm looking at my next step which is installing a Intercooler on my 8.3 Cummins that's installed in my Crown Pusher. One thought I have is building a scoop out of Fiberglass that starts at the roof with a intake that's about 8 inches high & say 3 ft wide that tapers down to about 2ft wide at the bottom, the scoop could run down the back of the bus & stop just above the cooling vents for the eng compartment. My thought process here is ,Positive Air Pressure scooped up at top of bus & as it narrows increases pressure in front of Intercooler but negative air pressure at exit of scoop because it would be down in vacuum area behind bus would pull air thru.

option 2; Mount a box or cooler inside eng compartment install Intercooler inside then when traveling fill box/cooler with water & a couple slabs of dry ice.

[cadillackid]

if the idea of a snorkel isfor a higher pressure air charge going in.. just install a bigger turbo if you (and your engine can take it) want more boost...

mist "intercoolers" are actually After-coolers.. and will cool the air POST turbo, from what ive seen a fan other than the engine fan on an aftercooler is wasted.. theres enough metal mass in the cooler itself to take up the heat produced during an initial spool up... long hard turbo pulls are generally accompanied by enough physical speed (or a hot engine therefor engine fan engagement) to keep the air charge cool..

I had never seen a turbo engine without a cooler.. were there some busses that didnt have stock after coolers?

-Christopher

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

if the idea of a snorkel isfor a higher pressure air charge going in.. just install a bigger turbo if you (and your engine can take it) want more boost...

mist "intercoolers" are actually After-coolers.. and will cool the air POST turbo, from what ive seen a fan other than the engine fan on an aftercooler is wasted.. theres enough metal mass in the cooler itself to take up the heat produced during an initial spool up... long hard turbo pulls are generally accompanied by enough physical speed (or a hot engine therefor engine fan engagement) to keep the air charge cool..

I had never seen a turbo engine without a cooler.. were there some busses that didnt have stock after coolers?

-Christopher

Mine does not have a cooler.

[Tango]

Actually, there are quite a few turbo-diesels out there sans intercooler. But, they are much less efficient. My diesel shop put the difference at about 15% less hp & torque as well as consuming more fuel.

[cadillackid]

I never realized that so many existed on commercial trucks anyway... there were a lot of turbo cars made without coolers.. I do know with airflow in general the more twists / bends / elbows you put in the pipe to route to any sort of cooler you are losing CFM of of flow and velocity... at some point theres a tradeoff between plumbing to heck and back for a cooler vs running no coller at all..

I dont know much about these engies to know if turbo boost is waste-gate limited or if boost is limited on the front end by how much fool is allowed to enter the engine... if the objective is just to gain a little more power.. then perhaps you turn up the Juice a little...

-Christopher

[Tango]

The advantage provided by a CAC (Charge Air Cooler...aka; "intercooler") is that when properly designed, there is only about 1-2% pressure loss, but the cooled air is much denser. More oxygen available, which translates into a significant power gain. When I raced 2-stoke formula bikes, the available power difference between a hot summer day and a chilly fall day was at once noticeable and impressive with the same jetting and tune. Noticed the same thing in flying small aerobatic planes. Since there is a 3 degree drop in temperature per every 1,000 foot in altitude, the plane had way more power at around 5 to 7 thousand feet than near the ground on a hot, sticky day. Above that altitude and you begin getting into thinner air and the gain goes back away.

Fat air is good air for engines.

[cadillackid]

oh I get it as far as why you want a cooler.. I used to run drag cars and always had to dial in based on weather... I loved the spring because the sun angle was high (warm track) and cold air in the morning... im just saying that if a charge cooler is added to this bus and the ducting is so elaborate that it twists and turns the air so much you end up with little to no benefit over stock... if a fairly clear route can be made from turb to cooler and from cooler to engine then I say its worth adding...
-Christopher

[Stu & Filo. T]

So to avoid pressure drop, the pipe off the turbo is 2 1/2in would I increase the inlet & outlet of the cooler to 3in then drop back to 2 1/2in or kept 3in all the way back to the intake then drop back to 2 1/2.??

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by Stu & Filo. T

So what do you think of the idea of a Intercooler Immersed in water & ice for traveling days??

I doubt that would work. The amount of heat energy that you would be dealing with is quite a bit. I don't think you'd want to deal with that much cooler space. Although dry ice is a wonderful cooling mechanism, I doubt it would work well with water in a cooler. Plus you'll always have to be near a place with dry ice then. If you're not wanting to do the duct work to make an intercooler work, then perhaps a better idea would be one of the air to water charge coolers(if they make one big enough) and then run a separate radiator up front with the associated hose and pump.