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Old 07-16-2020, 08:31 AM   #1
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International 3800 Rear Main Leak

I am redoing a 1998 International 3800 with the T444e. Not sure what the trans is cannot find tag. but it is an Allison.

Been doing some mechanical work. Replaced the King pins and the 6 shackles up front. New water pump, belts and hoses. Also started working on fixing leaks from the Oil pan etc. It appears however my rear main seal is leaking and and wondering to you really need the special tool from international to remove the old seal?

Any help is appreciated.
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Old 07-16-2020, 08:51 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by ecupirate1988 View Post
I am redoing a 1998 International 3800 with the T444e. Not sure what the trans is cannot find tag. but it is an Allison.

Been doing some mechanical work. Replaced the King pins and the 6 shackles up front. New water pump, belts and hoses. Also started working on fixing leaks from the Oil pan etc. It appears however my rear main seal is leaking and and wondering to you really need the special tool from international to remove the old seal?

Any help is appreciated.
I'd not do it without the tool.

My local dealer charges $750 the rear main seal job.
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Old 07-16-2020, 08:52 AM   #3
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wow my told me $1600.
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Old 07-16-2020, 08:58 AM   #4
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wow my told me $1600.
Dang. Its been about 4 years since I've priced one. But Maudlin's in Orlando had $750 as their advertised price last time I was over there.

I'd call around- For $1600 I'd just let it seep until it got bad.
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:10 AM   #5
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Rear mains aren't that common. Make sure the oil isn't running down from the valley and appearing like a rear main leak.

The tool isn't "necessary", but the job isn't what I consider fun, and not using the tool makes the probability of ruining the new seal pretty likely.
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:19 AM   #6
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I've done them before without the tool, not something I'd suggest to the average at home mechanic.
Check your engine valley, it may very will be your turbo pedestal or EBPV is the most common leak, or it could be the fuel pump...
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:50 AM   #7
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As other folk have mentioned, your leak might not even be the rear main seal. Any oil leaks up in the valley of the engine will drip down the back - looking like a RMS. Check up there first for any oil. Could be turbo pedestal, HPOP, high pressure oil fitting... Also could be a leak at the rear of the oil pan.


That being said, I had to do the RMS on my T444e a couple weeks ago. Had to pop off the 5-speed Spicer manual transmission which was heavy, but otherwise trivial. Clutch and flywheel came off easy.



With those removed I could see that the RMS was weeping. Also, the rear plate was leaking in a couple places. Popped it off, cleaned it up, put on some fresh Permatex "The Right Stuff" and reinstalled. Installing the new RMS was easier than I thought. Firstly do not separate the seal from the wear ring! You do not want to oil between the wear ring and the seal. It's Teflon and should not be pre-oiled.
I did put some thread locker on the inside surface of the wear ring. There is a special Loctite product for this application. I couldn't find it anywhere.

To install the new RMS I used the flywheel torque plate that came off with the flywheel. Looks something like this:



With 3 bolts evenly spaced I tightened them up incrementally to walk the wear ring in place. Used a micrometer against the bolts to make sure I was pushing evenly. Smooth and easy.


I really wish I took some pictures. I'd have loved to share it with everyone.
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:54 AM   #8
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Oh, and the price?


$20 for a rear main seal.
$30 for two tubes of "The Right Stuff" (also sealed the oil pan)
$40 in brake cleaner, rags, clean up stuff.
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:56 AM   #9
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Here's a picture of the rear plate:



With it off you can also seal the rear of the oil pan. I don't think I'd do the RMS without also re-sealing that plate. It's easy enough to deal with.
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:57 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by jazty View Post
As other folk have mentioned, your leak might not even be the rear main seal. Any oil leaks up in the valley of the engine will drip down the back - looking like a RMS. Check up there first for any oil. Could be turbo pedestal, HPOP, high pressure oil fitting... Also could be a leak at the rear of the oil pan.


That being said, I had to do the RMS on my T444e a couple weeks ago. Had to pop off the 5-speed Spicer manual transmission which was heavy, but otherwise trivial. Clutch and flywheel came off easy.



With those removed I could see that the RMS was weeping. Also, the rear plate was leaking in a couple places. Popped it off, cleaned it up, put on some fresh Permatex "The Right Stuff" and reinstalled. Installing the new RMS was easier than I thought. Firstly do not separate the seal from the wear ring! You do not want to oil between the wear ring and the seal. It's Teflon and should not be pre-oiled.
I did put some thread locker on the inside surface of the wear ring. There is a special Loctite product for this application. I couldn't find it anywhere.

To install the new RMS I used the flywheel torque plate that came off with the flywheel. Looks something like this:



With 3 bolts evenly spaced I tightened them up incrementally to walk the wear ring in place. Used a micrometer against the bolts to make sure I was pushing evenly. Smooth and easy.


I really wish I took some pictures. I'd have loved to share it with everyone.

**THIS**


I did it using this method.. in my case I used 2 of those plates together.. (was on a powerstroke van) and we had an extra plate.. I used all the boltsand just cross patterned 1 turn at a time.. took longer and was probably a pain but was better than buying the expensve tool that id only ever use once..



RMS dont leak too often.. in the case of the van i worked on it had 380k miles so its seals were a bit tired...
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