International CE300

[StevenOlsson]

Hello, I’m thinking about buying a 2009 International CE300 school bus with a DT466 engine and an Allison3060 transmission with only 87 thousand miles. I don’t know much when it comes to busses so does anyone know if this is something I should buy or should I keep looking?
Thanks!

[musigenesis]

A 2009 will have a Maxxforce engine, not a DT466. You do not want a Maxxforce. If the seller listed this bus as having a DT466, they are more or less scamming you.

[StevenOlsson]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

A 2009 will have a Maxxforce engine, not a DT466. You do not want a Maxxforce. If the seller listed this bus as having a DT466, they are more or less scamming you.

It’s a Gov auction. This is the description:
2009 International CE300 School Bus
87,602 miles
Tires are good
Runs good, can be hard to start when the engine is cold
Bumper to bumper length 40'
Interior length 34'
Interior height 6.6'
Interior width 7.8'

Year: 2009
Make: International
Model: CE300
Mileage: 87602
VIN: 4DRBUAAN19B681117
Running Condition: Good
Engine: DT466
Transmission: Allison 3060
Tires: Good

[StevenOlsson]

I’ve also seen other 2009 internationals that have DT466 engines. Like I said I don’t know much, but is it like none of them have dt466s or is it just rare?

[musigenesis]

The DT466E was renamed "Maxxforce DT" starting in 2007-2008. The DT466E has a stellar reputation up through 2003 (the mechanically-injected DT466, last produced in 1998, has an even better reputation) and even the post-2003 and pre-Maxxforce engines are considered OK despite having EGR. Anything with "Maxxforce" in the name is bad.

It's maybe slightly possible that a 2009 would have a pre-Maxxforce DT, but then the proper designation would be DT466E and not DT466, so it's more likely the seller is either intentionally or unintentionally leaving "Maxxforce" out of the vehicle description as that would scare off knowledgeable bidders (or anyone willing to google it). I wouldn't bid on this bus without finding out for sure whether it has a Maxxforce or not.

The MD3060 transmission is best-in-show, but that's not enough to make up for the engine. If the mileage is accurate, that speaks to the difficulty of keeping a Maxxforce running. My bus garage (I'm a school bus driver) has three buses with them and they're available less than half the time - we only operate them when no other buses are available.

[DeMac]

Navistar buses built after Dec 31, 2007 were built with a MaxxForce (or Cummins)

Black engine = MF
Blue engine = DT

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by DeMac

Navistar buses built after Dec 31, 2007 were built with a MaxxForce (or Cummins)

Black engine = MF
Blue engine = DT

being that IC tends to release models years WAY AHEAD of actual dead. . its theoretically possibly his CE300 has a DT466.. the badge o nthe side next to the door will say "maxxforce" if it has one

[BamaBus]

The vin in the listing is close, but not the same as pictures. 2007 year engine.

https://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/al...ew?auc=3250336

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by BamaBus

The vin in the listing is close, but not the same as pictures. 2007 year engine.

https://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/al...ew?auc=3250336

And the engine is blue ... I think?

[StevenOlsson]

Originally Posted by BamaBus

The vin in the listing is close, but not the same as pictures. 2007 year engine.

https://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/al...ew?auc=3250336

Oh I hadn’t noticed that, yeah the pictures say 2007 maxforce.

[cadillackid]

pictures def say Maxxforce as does the engine serial Number, of the 2 Maxxforce DT variants, the 07 was the lesser of 2 evils... but EGR cooler failures and clogged DPFs were still pretty common occurances on those.. the turbo actuator could be flaky just like on the 04-06 DTe66E also..

[PorchDog]

As Monty Python would say..."Run Away--- Run Away...."

But I'm an old curmudgeon...

[cadillackid]

If you are mechanically inclined some of these go cheap enough they can be worth it.. since I don’t do conversions to my busses I’d be inclined to buy a well taken care of maxxforce DT if the price was cheap cheap. At least the 07-09, not so much the 10+

[dbsoundman]

Another small detail, there's almost no way that bus has the MD3060 transmission. It likely has the successor to the MD3060, the 3000, which is just as good. My 2006 model year (assembled in 2005) has a 3000. The controls look basically identical so it's really hard to tell the difference unless you look at the tag on the transmission.

[cadillackid]

3000 vs 3060 is simply a vocation. its a 3000 series which can be anything from a 3060 to a 3500 etc etc. allison has a lot of sub numbering within.. just like a B300R is more or less a 3000 series designed for busses.. ther 2000 series is the same.. lots of vocations.. which may involve different internal parts (gear ratio sets) and different programming but the same basic design...

[Dbacks2k4]

According to the build sheet, the VIN number you listed was built in 2007 and has a Maxxforce DT and an Allison 3000PTS.

You can pull International build sheets anytime here:
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/n...ase-38729.html

[StevenOlsson]

Thanks everyone for your replies, You’ve been really helpful! I’ll keep looking. Could you let me know which Bus, engine, and year you would recommend?

[musigenesis]

I think most skooliers would agree that pre-2004 DT466(e), T444E, Cat 3126, Cummins 5.9 and 8.3 engines are all good, and any transmission other than the AT545 is good. Engines from 2004-2006 are less desirable but maybe still OK. Maxxforce, 6.0 and VT365 engines are all to be avoided; Mercedes-Benz diesel engines are good but expensive to maintain and difficult to find mechanics who can work on them. Other than that, you want buses without rust.

[Seb1]

Hi Steven, how many miles a year do you anticipate to drive per year ? I have a 2008 CE300 with Maxxforce DT and 220k miles. I drove it 15000 miles in 3 years, so not a lot. I had zero engine or after treatment system issues (DPF).I had brake problems though, but now settled. I anticipate having to clean/replace the DPF one day. So depending on your usage the bus you are looking at may be a good option, despite an engine/after treatment generating less particles and NOx but indeed less reliable than pre-2004 because it has more components that can/will fail.

[StevenOlsson]

Originally Posted by Seb1

Hi Steven, how many miles a year do you anticipate to drive per year ? I have a 2008 CE300 with Maxxforce DT and 220k miles. I drove it 15000 miles in 3 years, so not a lot. I had zero engine or after treatment system issues (DPF).I had brake problems though, but now settled. I anticipate having to clean/replace the DPF one day. So depending on your usage the bus you are looking at may be a good option, despite an engine/after treatment generating less particles and NOx but indeed less reliable than pre-2004 because it has more components that can/will fail.

I’m not planning on driving it much, maybe 2-3 thousand miles a year. The bus I was looking at sold but Thanks I’ll keep that in mind if I find another.