More bad news for CA owners

[Danjo]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

So, I know people here don't like the post-2003 engines because of the costs and reliability problems associated with the emissions control systems, but what effect do these actually have on emissions? Like, is my 2003 bus spewing 10X as much as a 2013 bus?

If it stays with a BU or SB title designation and over 14000 GVWR then you won’t be able to register in 2020.

If converted it’s exempt. And if it’s a gas or LPG engine it’s exempt.

[Sharee100]

The tag on the door say GVWR 12300/5579. I didn't see anything that says the law applies to all buses/trucks over 14,000 lbs. Even ones registered out of California? I plan to visit my son in CA a couple of times a year. I have TN license plates. If I drive 600 miles in CA on one trip and 600 miles on another trip, does that qualify as over 1000 miles?


I am interested in getting my bus reclassified. What is the CARB diesel hotline? They said I can't get my bus reclassified in TN; that I have to keep the classification the manufacturer gave it. OK: California Air Resources Board. Is there an ARB in each State?



OK. From what I read online, it looks like it refers to CA registered vehicles only. Does it look like that to you?

[cadillackid]

its easy to "break" the odometer on a Navistar .. but chances are they read your ECM on inspection.. disconnecting the VSS will break the transmission if it has an MD3060 or allison 2000.. why anyone wants to live in california is beyond me.. there are plenty of other warm weather places to live where the rules arent as strict and cost of living isnt as expensive..

[kazetsukai]

Yeah, I'll never go to California willingly. Freaking zealots.

[Danjo]

Originally Posted by Sharee100

The tag on the door say GVWR 12300/5579. I didn't see anything that says the law applies to all buses/trucks over 14,000 lbs. Even ones registered out of California? I plan to visit my son in CA a couple of times a year. I have TN license plates. If I drive 600 miles in CA on one trip and 600 miles on another trip, does that qualify as over 1000 miles?


I am interested in getting my bus reclassified. What is the CARB diesel hotline? They said I can't get my bus reclassified in TN; that I have to keep the classification the manufacturer gave it. OK: California Air Resources Board. Is there an ARB in each State?



OK. From what I read online, it looks like it refers to CA registered vehicles only. Does it look like that to you?

Only applies to CA.

[gs1949]

I fairly regularly go camping with an old friend at Lava Beds National Monument, in the NE corner of California. It's an awesome landscape and where Kintapoos or Kintpuash, aka Captain Jack, held off hundreds of US Army troops for months, with less than a dozen Modoc warriors and a few hundred rounds of ammunition. The only reason the Army managed to get him out of there was they convinced someone to tell them where they were getting their water from.

Other than these camping trips, I've made one trip to California in the last 50 years, and that last trip was only as far as Red Bluff, and that was almost 30 years ago. Nothing in California, except the lava beds, interests me very much anymore.

[Danjo]

Originally Posted by kazetsukai

Yeah, I'll never go to California willingly. Freaking zealots.

Yeah, takes the fun out of it. If you’ve seen photos of LA or the Bay Area from the 70’s you’d understand where that’s coming from. I think the current diesel rules came about from the poorly maintained short run semis idling at the docks and choking the ever-gentrifying communities around them.

[Sharee100]

So when I come to visit I can travel all over CA and not worry. Thanks.

[cadillackid]

Is it Washington state that proposed or actually enacted something about commercial vehicles even passing through must be compliant regardless of the registered home?
In effect to stop people from going to a neighboring state like Idaho that doesn’t care or going the Vermont route.
Like our company we register our vehicles out of Ohio because we have our “fleet center” here and our home office is in Florida but insurance and registration requirements are much easier and cheaper in Ohio for business. Ehies.. our guy who lived on the west coast had Ohio plates on his company car.. this he never went to smog check since it doesn’t apply in central Ohio ..
Christopher

[firebuild]

THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO VEHICLES THAT DO NOT OPERATE AS SCHOOL BUSES.

Here is the wording, from CARB:

"School Bus Vehicles powered by diesel fuel with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of greater than 14,000 pounds that provide transportation of any school pupil at or below the 12th-grade level or to or from a public or private school, or to or from public or private school activities are subject to the Truck and Bus Regulation."

Are you driving pupils? No? Then this regulation does not apply to you.

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by Danjo

Only applies to CA.

Not entirely correct; it applies to all vehicles that meet the criteria doing business in CA, whether they are domiciled in CA or not.

HOWEVER...

Buses that do not operate as school buses, that DO NOT DRIVE PUPILS TO AND FROM SCHOOL OR ACTIVITIES, are and have always been exempt from the truck and bus regulations.

Lots of websites are cranking this up to eleven without reading the actual CARB definition of a school bus, which I quoted below, and which can be found here:

https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/truckstop/tb/truckbus.htm

[Rivetboy]

Originally Posted by kazetsukai

Yeah, I'll never go to California willingly. Freaking zealots.

You paint with quite a wide brush for someone so young and inexperienced.

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by Rivetboy

You paint with quite a wide brush for someone so young and inexperienced.

I'm glad somebody said it.

[gs1949]

Let me start off by saying I am not a lawyer, but I have worked as a legal historian for 2 different law firms, so I speak the language. And when you're trying to understand something, you have to look at the whole document, at how the different sections affect each other, not just at key sentences out of one or two sections. Context is always key to understanding history, even history as it unfolds.

[ol trunt]

Originally Posted by kazetsukai View Post
Yeah, I'll never go to California willingly. Freaking zealots.
I've lived in Ca for nearly 70 years and if I could figure out a way to get out of Dodge I'd be gone. My wife likes the weather--though not much else.

I guess it is just a personal preference.
Jack

[Sharee100]

The letter says trucks, buses, and school buses...

[Danjo]

Originally Posted by firebuild

Not entirely correct; it applies to all vehicles that meet the criteria doing business in CA, whether they are domiciled in CA or not.

HOWEVER...

Buses that do not operate as school buses, that DO NOT DRIVE PUPILS TO AND FROM SCHOOL OR ACTIVITIES, are and have always been exempt from the truck and bus regulations.

Lots of websites are cranking this up to eleven without reading the actual CARB definition of a school bus, which I quoted below, and which can be found here:

https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/truckstop/tb/truckbus.htm

Here’s what is exempt:

The Regulation does not apply to:
Gasoline or dedicated natural gas vehicles
Solid Waste Collection Vehicles
Public Agency and Utility Vehicles (Not Federal)
Drayage (Port or Rail) Trucks
Transit/Urban Buses
Personal use motor homes or recreational vehicles

And to punctuate the school bus/bus NOT being exempt, the bus yard where I bought my bus had facilities for servicing particulate filters and the fleet manager that was giving me the tour said they had received grants to bring buses to compliance. Whether he meant buying new buses or retrofitting, IDK, but they had to go to great lengths get into compliance.

[Broachbilly]

A little bit with Google Know.it.alls


https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/trucks...egs/others.htm

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by gs1949

Let me start off by saying I am not a lawyer, but I have worked as a legal historian for 2 different law firms, so I speak the language. And when you're trying to understand something, you have to look at the whole document, at how the different sections affect each other, not just at key sentences out of one or two sections. Context is always key to understanding history, even history as it unfolds.

I agree, and the definition of a school bus per the document itself affects the interpretation of the document. This is the definition. I've read the whole thing, and if you read it without that definition, it certainly seems like skoolie owners are included. But once you have the definition, it's clear they are not.

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by Danjo

Here’s what is exempt:

The Regulation does not apply to:
Gasoline or dedicated natural gas vehicles
Solid Waste Collection Vehicles
Public Agency and Utility Vehicles (Not Federal)
Drayage (Port or Rail) Trucks
Transit/Urban Buses
Personal use motor homes or recreational vehicles

And to punctuate the school bus/bus NOT being exempt, the bus yard where I bought my bus had facilities for servicing particulate filters and the fleet manager that was giving me the tour said they had received grants to bring buses to compliance. Whether he meant buying new buses or retrofitting, IDK, but they had to go to great lengths get into compliance.

I didn't say school buses are exempt. But defined IN THE DOCUMENT ITSELF, they are vehicles that transport students. I guess you could get snagged for dropping your own kids off at school, but otherwise, your vehicle is not a school bus per CARB, no matter how it's registered, IF YOU DO NOT DRIVE STUDENTS TO SCHOOL. Of course a bus yard would have to be in compliance, because they are supplying school buses as defined by CARB.

I'm not at all saying some future regulation won't apply to us; I'm also not saying some overzealous fool might try to enforce this against a skoolie. But if he did, he would be wrong. That could happen even if you're registered as an RV, because lots of stupid petty bureaucrats work at places like this. But this regulation clearly does not apply as per its own definition of a school bus, written in the section entitled, "DEFINITION OF SCHOOL BUS."