My bus caught fire yesterday.

[Oscar1]

NEVER engage a fire you are not comfortable engaging!
Learn about fire extinguisher use and limitations...
Don't EVER belittle yourself for being safe!

Worn wiring leading to a short circuit is more than hot enough to start a fire --this is basically how arc-welding works -- it's just a controlled short circuit!

ALL these buses were engineered to be safe when built and be used as school buses for what 10 to 15 years at most... and be scrapped afterwards...

We've decided to extend their useful life -- it's on us to ensure they are safe...
Well said David.

[cowlitzcoach]

As others have said, there are a lot of flammable fluids circulating under the hood that can catch on fire if they reach the flash point.


Since you say you so droplets of fire I would suggest something was burning that included plastic. My guess would be you had a wire chafe through and it caused the insulation around the wire to start to burn. It was most probably burning pieces of plastic that you saw dropping on the ground.


A few years ago Edmonds School District had a Crown catch on fire. It was determined that a problem in the alternator caused an electrical fire that ended up burning a lot of stuff under the bus.


I would suggest that since your dash started showing issues and then the engine finally stopped running that your first indication something was wrong was when your idiot lights and warnings were set off without the gauges saying there was a problem.

[BlackJohn]

Sorry to hear about your misadventure. Glad you were able to get out.
Not too common an incident but I have seen a few go like that and quickly.
Most notable was a brand new 3500 Ram diesel with an expensive 5'er in behind. They both went up due to transmission line bursting. Was quite a sight for sore eyes.
Hope this doesn't deter your interest in buses, could happen to all of them anytime.

I'm another that agrees on maintenance being regular and then you have a pretty good idea of what not to expect to happen on the road.
Gives a whole nuther meaning to letting the smoke out too.


Stay safe,


John

[Mikemac]

First a fire means a hot hood, most forget. Second when a bus leaks a fluid moving down the road it coats other items including plastic, insulation, wires etc. if it gets burning, extra oxygen is being added to the fire. At the same time it’s holding the fire back. Always have two fire extinguisher front and rear and have big ones Costco is great for reasonable pricing. Diesel is hard to start due to its flash point but add plastic and oxygen it moves. If you visit a wrecking yard - you will scare your self straight. Fire is common, brakes catch fire, Electrical items catch fire, critters eat and nest in vehicles eating wire is common. If a system is failing find out why check fuses to see they are the right size, a marker light not working can be a bulb or a wire problem. Wire problem in wrong place is a fire hazard. All propane should be mounted low, open to the ground and lines continuous and exposed. Steel or stainless steel, do not use copper for anything that burns on a bus or vehicle. I’m glad your ok, everyone needs friends that know this stuff. Make friends and learn from smart people. Peace

[JackE]

To set your mind at ease about not noticing anything until it died, it's happened to me. I was driving an '83 Suburban with the 6.2 diesel. Left work, got on the freeway for my 25 mile ride home. The last 2 or so miles before my exit I had some guy flashing his lights at me, then he finally flew past me waving his arms. I thought he was a nut case. When I exited and came to a stop, smoke was rolling out from under the hood, but the engine was running just fine. I quick pulled into the park and ride lot and the crazy guy was right behind me with his extinguisher out before I could even get out of the Suburban. He got it put out, but the firetruck that showed up proceeded to dump another 500 gallons of water on my engine. I drug it home and replaced all the burnt wires, and the melted return fuel injector lines and had it running again. While running it, trying to figure out what happened, the injector lines on the other bank started squirting fuel all over everything. I decided that was probably the source of my original fire. Diesel spraying on the exhaust manifold. So, even though the guy behind me told me he followed me for several miles smelling and seeing the smoke, I couldn't see or smell anything. He finally passed me to flag me down when he saw flames licking the front tire from the engine bay.

[rebapuck]

When I first read the title of your post I immediately thought I was on my VW bus forum. Happens alot apparently. Alot of VW owners are installing Blaze Cut to put out fires. Would something like that be of use on schoolies? It'd have to be much bigger (or triple the units installed) of course.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

i would say rats nets and chewing wires
the little droplets on fire should have been a full stop and no go until it was addressed.
hind sight 2020.
here we are 2020 has been a mucked up year for me also.
sorry about your bus.
it was Y2K was a problem that didnt happen but know one predicted 2020 as being a pain in the?

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by magnakansas

once oil, or fuel hits hot exhaust it will usually flash. so any leak from engine oil , like the supply line to the turbocharger or fuel, like a pressure line to an injector, hits the exhaust, you get fire and the fire will not be able to be put out until the auto ignition temperature falls....

power steering fluid, diesel fuel, automatic transmission oil, engine oil... all have similar flash points when sprayed onto a hot metal pipe. somewhere around 800 to 1000 degrees. with a vehicle stopped and engine running all of these fluids will be pumped though lines and hoses. With the exhaust on the passenger side, along with the turbocharger... there is the heat source... fuel lines, engine oil lines and possible transmission lines are the fuel sources all available to the passenger side of the engine bay. power steering I would rule out because most all the stuff is on the other side of the motor.

A hose with a fine little crack or split will spray a mist of oil.... fire waiting to happen.... Yea it happens.... a 65 vw beetle will burn to nothing usable is less than five minutes.

william.

the reason VWs burn do easily is because the fuel line and often the filter is right above the distributer, Get a leak and you can have a problem.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

That's awesome and thanks for the storage offer. I'll give them a call on Monday and see what they want for various things. I have an SUV that I'm pretty sure the bumper would fit in, need to measure it. It's a six-hour drive each way for me, but everything I listed together would probably be enough to justify a special trip if their prices are reasonable enough.

Uhaul trailer?

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by banman

I have read enough of this thread to suggest that whatever vehicle you get next. You get more mechanically educated about -- you simply can't look to prevent future incidents without knowing what you're looking at...

Gasoline has a much lower flashpoint than diesel so is inherently more dangerous.

Any turbo-exhaust will run over 1000°F on the hwy -- my ol Saab 9000 -- nothing special -- lift the hood on a dark night after driving, the turbo will be glowing orange! This is normal...

People piss and moan about gov interference... There IS a reason why so many states have mandated annual vehicle safety inspections...

NEVER engage a fire you are not comfortable engaging!
Learn about fire extinguisher use and limitations...
Don't EVER belittle yourself for being safe!

Worn wiring leading to a short circuit is more than hot enough to start a fire --this is basically how arc-welding works -- it's just a controlled short circuit!

ALL these buses were engineered to be safe when built and be used as school buses for what 10 to 15 years at most... and be scrapped afterwards...

We've decided to extend their useful life -- it's on us to ensure they are safe...

I have a flat nose with the engine sitting right next to me. It is kinda scary thinking it might catch fire. I would not be too eager to open the hatch, the fire would be inside of the bus then. Never thought about it till now.



Wonder what the track record is on the Cummins 5.9.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by kidharris

I have a flat nose with the engine sitting right next to me. It is kinda scary thinking it might catch fire. I would not be too eager to open the hatch, the fire would be inside of the bus then. Never thought about it till now.



Wonder what the track record is on the Cummins 5.9.

If it catches fire next to you theres a chance you can put it out.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

As others have said, there are a lot of flammable fluids circulating under the hood that can catch on fire if they reach the flash point.


Since you say you so droplets of fire I would suggest something was burning that included plastic. My guess would be you had a wire chafe through and it caused the insulation around the wire to start to burn. It was most probably burning pieces of plastic that you saw dropping on the ground.


A few years ago Edmonds School District had a Crown catch on fire. It was determined that a problem in the alternator caused an electrical fire that ended up burning a lot of stuff under the bus.


I would suggest that since your dash started showing issues and then the engine finally stopped running that your first indication something was wrong was when your idiot lights and warnings were set off without the gauges saying there was a problem.

I wouldn't an electrical fire would have much effect on stopping a diesel from running. What am I missing?

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

If it catches fire next to you theres a chance you can put it out.

I would think that the smoke would make visibility impossible even if the smoke didn't put you out too fast.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by kidharris

I would think that the smoke would make visibility impossible even if the smoke didn't put you out too fast.

How much visibility you need to jump over the doghouse and down the steps? Or out the driver window?
Me- less than 3 seconds blindfolded and I'm OUT.

A FE of CE has a chance of being saved if you're quick with the extinguisher. The RE's tend to burn a bit longer before you notice.

[bigskypc50]

Sorry to the OP on the loss of your bus, hopefully it was insured..... But its a good PSA for the rest of us to remember it can happen to any of us. I have my factory extinguisher handy right by the door. And I am really fussy (anal) about keeping the engine clean and right on top of maintenance. I have herd so many people say "oh well is big diesel commercial vehicle they all leak" I say BS, they did not come out of the factory leaking.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by bigskypc50

Sorry to the OP on the loss of your bus, hopefully it was insured..... But its a good PSA for the rest of us to remember it can happen to any of us. I have my factory extinguisher handy right by the door. And I am really fussy (anal) about keeping the engine clean and right on top of maintenance. I have herd so many people say "oh well is big diesel commercial vehicle they all leak" I say BS, they did not come out of the factory leaking.

I just realized my bus came with an extinguisher but I have no idea what ever happened to it. I guess it was stolen one of the three times my bus was robbed. Can those things be sold for scrap metal? Seems like they'd be a bit too explodey to put into a crusher.

[Rovobay]

Sorry for your loss. That is truly sad. Were you far into your build or did you use it for something else? The post turbo downpipe exhaust gas temperatures (EGT) can reach 1100 degrees or more when climbing.

I carry 2 fire extinguishers with me. Due to your loss, I will heed the warning lights and gauges more closely. I will do preinspection trips under the hood looking for leaks, rodent damage, rodent nests, etc. I have come way to far in my build to lose it to a fire.

[banman]

Originally Posted by kidharris

the reason VWs burn do easily is because the fuel line and often the filter is right above the distributer, Get a leak and you can have a problem.

The VW's came with braided cloth covered rubber hose -- 20 years old it's cracked and leaking at the carb...
Anyone that did maintenance 20 years ago -- now your VW bus is 40 or 50 years old -- rinse and repeat...
(almost) EVERY VW that catches fire is a MAINTENANCE fail. The owner owns it -- sorry...

Originally Posted by kidharris

I have a flat nose with the engine sitting right next to me. It is kinda scary thinking it might catch fire. I would not be too eager to open the hatch, the fire would be inside of the bus then. Never thought about it till now.
How paranoid are you? All the helicopters I've worked on have little spring loaded doors strategically located near the engine & fuel control for insp on start-up AND for shoving the nozzle of a fire extinguisher into...


Wonder what the track record is on the Cummins 5.9.

Originally Posted by kidharris

I wouldn't an electrical fire would have much effect on stopping a diesel from running. What am I missing?

Add a mechanical fuel shut-off valve (like ol' mechanical diesels had) that you can pull while you exit the bus...

I WILL be adding a battery disconnect switch I can throw from the driver seat to my bus.

[queen_bee]

Maybe leaking fuel injectors? I just had my injectors resealed and mine is an 03 and it had a few sputters as a symptom. Apparently it can cause engine oil thinning leading to excessive heat. That in combination with the fuel leaking all over is a recipe for disaster. Just a theory I'm no mechanic. Best part is your check engine light will never come on to indicate a problem. So sorry about your bus.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

How much visibility you need to jump over the doghouse and down the steps? Or out the driver window?
Me- less than 3 seconds blindfolded and I'm OUT.

A FE of CE has a chance of being saved if you're quick with the extinguisher. The RE's tend to burn a bit longer before you notice.

And here I thought you were going to put the fire out.