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Old 09-30-2015, 12:40 PM   #21
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Was it my eyes or after he removed the magnet and ran it up again there was more shaking than with the magnet installed. Watch the left edge of the tire.

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Old 09-30-2015, 02:18 PM   #22
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Yeah, I also could hear the additional strain and torque required of that little electrical motor. Granted, it's just a little thing, but I am imagining that same system sized up to 22.5" HDT tires. I wouldn't mind using something like that in the back of the vehicle on the off-chance that I had a spare tire or two that I needed to install myself out in the woods or something, but I would rather do an actual proper balance on a tire with old-skool lead fishing weights.
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Old 09-30-2015, 02:36 PM   #23
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Yeah it looked slightly out of balance after he removed the magnet, but that imbalance and the size of the centramatic weren't to scale compared to the size of the tire. The only thing that I have a problem with, and that nobody can seem to ever answer, is how many rpm does the tire have to be turning in order for it to be balanced? I'm just curious if it would even work at slower speeds.
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Old 09-30-2015, 03:24 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
Yeah it looked slightly out of balance after he removed the magnet, but that imbalance and the size of the centramatic weren't to scale compared to the size of the tire. The only thing that I have a problem with, and that nobody can seem to ever answer, is how many rpm does the tire have to be turning in order for it to be balanced? I'm just curious if it would even work at slower speeds.
That would depend on the mass of the internal weights, as well as the fluid. The tire that this device is attached to would have to spin fast enough for centrifugal force to overcome the the force applied by gravity to the mass of the ball-bearings modified by the resistance/suspension of the lube inside the tube.

TLDR = Physics says no. These work at highway speeds
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Old 09-30-2015, 04:11 PM   #25
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Most commercial tires nowadays are balanced using poly beads internally. Don't heat up or damage the rubber and won't sling off like lead.
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Old 09-30-2015, 05:00 PM   #26
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If I were going to even put half the amount of miles on the tires that they're rated for, I'd care what brand they were... But on average, how many miles a year does the average skoolie see?
On my scooter the difference between top brand and chinese is ten bucks. On My bus its a totally different story.
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Old 09-30-2015, 05:13 PM   #27
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I guess if you were going to put on that many miles that you were going to wear out the tires before timing them out, you would have spent gobs on diesel so why quibble over the price of some tires.
Granted if that cost was $500 different @ lets say $3 per gallon thats only 160 gallons of diesel and at 10MPG thats only 1600 miles of extra dicking about.
That is my summation of the information on this thread to this point.
But That does not take into account of how those 1600 miles feel on less good tires.
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Old 09-30-2015, 08:41 PM   #28
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Most commercial tires nowadays are balanced using poly beads internally. Don't heat up or damage the rubber and won't sling off like lead.
I use Counteract beads, very pleased with them.
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Old 09-30-2015, 09:31 PM   #29
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I use Counteract beads, very pleased with them.
I'm thinking of using them too, do they use a different valve stem on them? did you do all your tires? have to replace my steers, drives are good so I wouldn't be balancing them (yet)
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Old 09-30-2015, 09:35 PM   #30
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If I were going to even put half the amount of miles on the tires that they're rated for, I'd care what brand they were... But on average, how many miles a year does the average skoolie see?
On my scooter the difference between top brand and chinese is ten bucks. On My bus its a totally different story.
Also on a scooter, a tire failure can cause you to die.

Less chance of that with 6 tires and 20,000 pounds of steel around you.

Nat
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Old 09-30-2015, 09:40 PM   #31
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I'm thinking of using them too, do they use a different valve stem on them? did you do all your tires? have to replace my steers, drives are good so I wouldn't be balancing them (yet)
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Yes, they do use a different valve stem.

I did all the tires. The rears they just cracked and slipped in there. I got new steers and had them done then.
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Old 12-29-2021, 10:13 PM   #32
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Price Differences

So I just got some quotes for new drive tires and there is a bit of a disparity in price. Based on the info I could find here and on school bus professional forums I decided to look at putting recap tires on the back. The prices bellow are just for the tire (excluding tax, mounting, etc.)

A Goodyear dealer quoted me $155 for an open shoulder recap (not necessarily a Goodyear recap).
Another dealer quoted me $375 for Ultra Drive recaps (made by Bandag).
Is there really a 200% difference in tire quality for recaps? I mean, the Goodyear dealer quoted me $295 for fresh Navitrac drive tires!

I guess I feel like a professional driver would reap the benefit of the difference in quality, but given that I won't be driving all day, every day it probably won't make a difference. Thoughts? Advice?
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Old 12-29-2021, 10:19 PM   #33
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One retread unwinding on the road will cancel all your savings. I am a firm believer in new tires.
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Old 12-29-2021, 11:12 PM   #34
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There is no solid, independent evidence that recapped tires are any more likely to fail than virgin tires. I'm actually finalizing lots of research and am close to doing a video, to share the results of the studies done on this issue...and on tire age. The best study was sponsored by NHTSA and done by the University of Michigan, analyzing tire debris...many tons of it. It's worth reading the report. Recapped tires are permitted, legally, in any position on our conversions. They are also allowed in any position on any commercial vehicle, including those carrying hazardous materials, with the sole exception of the front (steer) wheels of passenger buses. Personally, I don't find any compelling reason to avoid them. But each person needs to make that decision for themselves, of course, and I'm not trying to talk anyone into it...I just want to share the best available data.
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Old 12-30-2021, 08:56 AM   #35
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At the time when I was putting new shoes on my bus, a retread was less then a 100 off from a new tire. Don't quote me but I have heard re-treads don't like to sit, and a lot of skoolie's sit. I personally would not run a re-tread. What I did is run a name brand on the front steers. Because if those let loose you might kill yourself or someone. And I went with closed shoulder drive china tires. My advice would be put a tear 1 on the fronts and what every you can find a good deal on the back. And put beads in the rears too. Tire guy said that's not normal practice but won't hurt anything. I can tell a notable difference.
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Old 12-30-2021, 12:26 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by rossvtaylor View Post
There is no solid, independent evidence that recapped tires are any more likely to fail than virgin tires. I'm actually finalizing lots of research and am close to doing a video, to share the results of the studies done on this issue...and on tire age. The best study was sponsored by NHTSA and done by the University of Michigan, analyzing tire debris...many tons of it. It's worth reading the report. Recapped tires are permitted, legally, in any position on our conversions. They are also allowed in any position on any commercial vehicle, including those carrying hazardous materials, with the sole exception of the front (steer) wheels of passenger buses. Personally, I don't find any compelling reason to avoid them. But each person needs to make that decision for themselves, of course, and I'm not trying to talk anyone into it...I just want to share the best available data.
I recall reading at some point that the biggest cause of tread separation on heavy duty vehicles is improper inflation. Interesting to note that, even with something like heavy truck tires that are supposed to be maintained by 'professionals', lack of maintenance, i.e. failing to do one's job, might be the most significant factor in catastrophic failures. Reading this got me to thinking that, before I hit the road I'll develop a pre-departure checklist. So far I have 4 items on it:

Check tire pressure.
Fresh cup of coffee in cup holder.
Empty bladder.
Snacks within reach.
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Old 12-30-2021, 12:46 PM   #37
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Also on a scooter, a tire failure can cause you to die.

Less chance of that with 6 tires and 20,000 pounds of steel around you.

Nat

A steer failing catastrophically at speed presents a risk (likelihood?) of death or serious injury not only to the pilot of the vehicle in question, but to those anywhere around him/her. Plus all those tons of steel won't protect you from flying projectiles within your bus that often result from rapid deceleration along unintended vectors. And all that weight isn't exactly an advantage from the perspective of control.

This is not an argument for or against any particular tire. Just saying... a tire failure in a bus isn't something to minimize.
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Old 12-30-2021, 01:42 PM   #38
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I recall reading at some point that the biggest cause of tread separation on heavy duty vehicles is improper inflation. Interesting to note that, even with something like heavy truck tires that are supposed to be maintained by 'professionals', lack of maintenance, i.e. failing to do one's job, might be the most significant factor in catastrophic failures. Reading this got me to thinking that, before I hit the road I'll develop a pre-departure checklist. So far I have 4 items on it:

Check tire pressure.
Fresh cup of coffee in cup holder.
Empty bladder.
Snacks within reach.
thats a good start.
search pre trip checklist/inspection on here.
used to have a member named cheesewagon that was well versed in tractor trailer stuff and he had posted a pretrip checklist for us some years ago.
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Old 12-30-2021, 02:07 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Oldyeller View Post
I recall reading at some point that the biggest cause of tread separation on heavy duty vehicles is improper inflation. Interesting to note that, even with something like heavy truck tires that are supposed to be maintained by 'professionals', lack of maintenance, i.e. failing to do one's job, might be the most significant factor in catastrophic failures. Reading this got me to thinking that, before I hit the road I'll develop a pre-departure checklist. So far I have 4 items on it:

Check tire pressure.
Fresh cup of coffee in cup holder.
Empty bladder.
Snacks within reach.
You recalled pretty correctly - it's definitely a big factor. From tire debris and casing examinations after failure, road hazard damage was the leading cause followed closely by excessive heat (from low air pressure and/or overloading, or excessive speed, or a brake issue). The third most common was "maintenance/operational" which includes using a tire past the safe tread wear limits, flat spotting a tire, or vehicle body contact with the tire.
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Old 12-30-2021, 04:12 PM   #40
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thats a good start.
search pre trip checklist/inspection on here.
used to have a member named cheesewagon that was well versed in tractor trailer stuff and he had posted a pretrip checklist for us some years ago.
Yep, that's the plan, plagiarize. That way I can avoid that thing which I least enjoy - thinking.
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